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Health Care Nightmare #4699038
03/18/18 07:58 PM
03/18/18 07:58 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 5,774
Waterloo, ON
Bluestream Offline OP
Bluestream  Offline OP
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 5,774
Waterloo, ON
I thought it was Government that had the bureaucracy?


Health Care Nightmare

Last edited by Bluestream; 03/18/18 07:59 PM.

2000 VW Beetle 1.8T M5
2000 Ford Explorer 4.0 4X4
1991 BMW 735iL
"A fool and his money are soon parted" - Thomas Tusser
Re: Health Care Nightmare [Re: Bluestream] #4699052
03/18/18 08:08 PM
03/18/18 08:08 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,866
The Midwest
skyactiv Online content
skyactiv  Online Content
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,866
The Midwest
Question Bluestream, would you rather keep your health care plan you have now or trade it for what we have in the USA?


Wife: 15' Audi A4 quattro 6 speed manual
Me: 13' VW GTI 3 door 6 speed manual
Re: Health Care Nightmare [Re: skyactiv] #4699062
03/18/18 08:20 PM
03/18/18 08:20 PM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,216
Ontario, Canada
IndyIan Offline
IndyIan  Offline
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,216
Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: skyactiv
Question Bluestream, would you rather keep your health care plan you have now or trade it for what we have in the USA?

I think at a certain income level, healthcare is probably better for an individual in the states, but what that number is I don't know.
I suspect there is for more slack in the US in terms of hospital beds available in most places because the US system is so profitable. Here our hospitals are run near full more often as it doesn't pay to have excess capacity.


07 Focus ZXW, 5spd manual, 218km M1 5W30
18 Outback 2.5 CVT 15km 0W20
Re: Health Care Nightmare [Re: Bluestream] #4699109
03/18/18 08:46 PM
03/18/18 08:46 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,866
The Midwest
skyactiv Online content
skyactiv  Online Content
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,866
The Midwest
Another question to you Canadians. Do people up there go broke and file bankruptcy because they cannot pay medical bills?
Here in the USA, even people with health insurance often go broke due to medical expenses.


Wife: 15' Audi A4 quattro 6 speed manual
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Re: Health Care Nightmare [Re: skyactiv] #4699127
03/18/18 09:01 PM
03/18/18 09:01 PM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 969
Winnipeg MB CA
Number_35 Online content
Number_35  Online Content
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 969
Winnipeg MB CA
Our (that is, Canada's) 'universal' health care is not as universal as the name would suggest; there are huge holes in it, some of which could bankrupt a family. For example, a friend receives a weekly transfusion to keep his lungs from being destroyed by an antibody. The medication is incredibly expensive ($1500/week?) and is covered by our province's medical system, but not by most other provinces.

Having said that, I received excellent care after breaking my leg skiing a few weeks ago. I know it's not free - I pay a lot in taxes, and about 1/3 of my taxes go to health care, but it was great to not be out of pocket for this injury.

Someone with money has the best of both worlds here - if they don't want to wait, they can pay their way as a private patient in the US.

Re: Health Care Nightmare [Re: Bluestream] #4699133
03/18/18 09:05 PM
03/18/18 09:05 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 233
KS
red7404 Offline
red7404  Offline
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 233
KS
we need pictures and names of the criminals

Re: Health Care Nightmare [Re: skyactiv] #4699139
03/18/18 09:08 PM
03/18/18 09:08 PM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,216
Ontario, Canada
IndyIan Offline
IndyIan  Offline
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,216
Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: skyactiv
Another question to you Canadians. Do people up there go broke and file bankruptcy because they cannot pay medical bills?
Here in the USA, even people with health insurance often go broke due to medical expenses.

It's rarer as most medically necessary procedures are nearly free, but what can get people is that lots of drugs aren't covered by the province. Most people do have a drug plan as a benefit at work, but if you don't and didn't buy your own insurance, you could be paying lots of money for drugs to keep you out of the hospital. Once in the hospital everything is covered again for whatever treatment you need, but after you leave, you or your plan has to buy medications again.
I think our drugs are still cheaper than the US, but I was reading we have the highest drug costs of all public healthcare systems in the world because our provinces haven't been buying them directly and haven't negotiated good deals like the other public systems.


07 Focus ZXW, 5spd manual, 218km M1 5W30
18 Outback 2.5 CVT 15km 0W20
Re: Health Care Nightmare [Re: Bluestream] #4699145
03/18/18 09:14 PM
03/18/18 09:14 PM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,767
...
PimTac Offline
PimTac  Offline
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,767
...
The hospital that I worked at up until a few years ago was running around 100-150 patients over capacity. The ER had around 45 rooms but the overflow would go into the halls and other available spaces. In some cases patients were treated in the waiting room. Surgery ran around the clock with scheduled operations well into the evening. It wasn’t a lack of space or people, it was a overwhelming demand for hospital services. As such, it was extremely difficult to provide excellent service but we did so with the help of automation and technology.

Healthcare is really in a state of chaos right now. The worst end of it for the customer is the billing process. In the case of my mother who passed away, we received bills 9 months after we had paid what was told to us the final amount. This was four months after she passed.

The billing system is broken and it’s ysually outsourced so accomplishing any sort of remediation takes months. In this day an age when Amazon can deliver pretty much anything overnight or in two days one has to wonder when this will get fixed.


2017 Mazda CX-5 GT.

Valvoline Modern Engine 0w20
Mobil 1 EP 108A
Re: Health Care Nightmare [Re: skyactiv] #4699149
03/18/18 09:19 PM
03/18/18 09:19 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 37,494
Ontario, Canada
OVERKILL Offline
OVERKILL  Offline
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 37,494
Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: skyactiv
Another question to you Canadians. Do people up there go broke and file bankruptcy because they cannot pay medical bills?
Here in the USA, even people with health insurance often go broke due to medical expenses.


Generally, as already mentioned, no. Drug costs and costs for diabetics can be problematic, but there's no several hundred thousand dollar surgeries to destroy you financially like you guys have. Also, not having billing as part of our service means that there's less for the patient and their family to deal with. You don't have to worry about the financials.


2018 RAM 1500 Big Horn EcoDiesel
2016 Grand Cherokee SRT
Re: Health Care Nightmare [Re: skyactiv] #4699214
03/18/18 10:53 PM
03/18/18 10:53 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,221
Where the wind comes sweepin'
Reddy45 Offline
Reddy45  Offline
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,221
Where the wind comes sweepin'
Originally Posted By: skyactiv
Another question to you Canadians. Do people up there go broke and file bankruptcy because they cannot pay medical bills?
Here in the USA, even people with health insurance often go broke due to medical expenses.


I have a chronic disorder that requires frequent examinations/procedures/etc and I've had services performed under the worst and the best types of insurance in the USA. (due to job changes)

I haven't yet met a facility that wasn't willing to either reduce the cost of services billed or to work out a payment plan. The hospital billing departments know that people don't just have $100K laying around, so I'm hesitant to believe the sob stories of people who let their lives be ruined because they couldn't make a simple call to the billing dept.

On top of that, it's rather foolish that people will get procedures done without first understanding the cost of what they'll pay. Usually the doctor gets his/her cut, the facility gets their cut, the labs get their cut, the anesthesiologist gets their cut, etc. 10 minutes on the phone will get you a 95% accurate picture of what said procedure will cost.

The real problem is that people don't have the mental fortitude to understand how the billing works (or how their insurance works). This is the real problem.

Re: Health Care Nightmare [Re: IndyIan] #4699242
03/18/18 11:53 PM
03/18/18 11:53 PM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,104
Virginia
bbhero Online content
bbhero  Online Content
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,104
Virginia
"nearly" free....

NOTHING IS "FREE".... Someone is PAYING. On the other end of this.... IS SOMEONE is getting PAID for their time and services provided... Supplies are PAID for...



Free free free free....

Lack of any deeper level critical thinking is clearly missing here.


Nissan Altima 3.5 Coupe
Quaker State High Mileage 5w30 Purolator Boss 14610
"Treat your family like your friends and treat your friends like your family."
Re: Health Care Nightmare [Re: Bluestream] #4699247
03/18/18 11:57 PM
03/18/18 11:57 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,176
Pennsylbammyvania
dailydriver Offline
dailydriver  Offline
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,176
Pennsylbammyvania
I have a feeling that this thread is going to turn REAL bad, 'right quick', as many on here would say.


2016 Ford Fiesta ST
Ravenol REP 5W-30
Amsoil Ea15K51 filter
Motul Gear 300 non-LS 75W-90
Re: Health Care Nightmare [Re: Bluestream] #4699337
03/19/18 06:10 AM
03/19/18 06:10 AM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 4,266
Midwest USA
LoneRanger Offline
LoneRanger  Offline
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 4,266
Midwest USA
Medical in the USA is horribly bloated and over priced, rife with bureaucracy and expertise varies wildly. During the avalanche of claims and insurance payments in aftermath of my serious motorcycle accident last year the in-patient physical rehab joint billed $1700 for "Prosthetics." I was there 8 days, and the only things I used were well worn wheelchairs, aluminum crutches, and the PT people would put a long strap around my mid section as a tether whilst I would do certain movements on the crutches. It was made of seat belt material or whatever. I told the employee health plan insurance this. They inquired. Rehab joint told them it "was for a collar." I was put in a c-collar from first day in the hospital and went into the rehab joint wearing it and even was given a spare from the hospital to shower in. It was a Miami-J type, which you can buy on the internet for less than $100. The rehab joint did *not* provide me any add'l collars nor did I use any "prothetics" while in there. To keep my left foot elevated when in bed they put three pillows under it, no special elevation techniques or anything. Shady $1700 charge quietly slipped onto health insurance bill that was two pages long. Employee health plan did not pay it but *would have* had I not pointed it out.



'09 Subaru Forester ...................(QS HM 5W30)
'16 Moto Guzzi Stelvio 1200 .....(ENI i-Ride PG 10W60)
Re: Health Care Nightmare [Re: bbhero] #4699381
03/19/18 07:22 AM
03/19/18 07:22 AM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 5,774
Waterloo, ON
Bluestream Offline OP
Bluestream  Offline OP
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 5,774
Waterloo, ON
Originally Posted By: bbhero
"nearly" free....

NOTHING IS "FREE".... Someone is PAYING. On the other end of this.... IS SOMEONE is getting PAID for their time and services provided... Supplies are PAID for...



Free free free free....

Lack of any deeper level critical thinking is clearly missing here.




Agreed there is no free lunch, but when you eliminate insurance companies you can have a more efficient system. Also, everyone has to pay into it, and then the healthy subsidise the sick at the lowest cost. (if any health care can be considered low cost)

Check this out:

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/07/canadians-may-pay-more-taxes-than-americans-but-theres-a-catch.html


2000 VW Beetle 1.8T M5
2000 Ford Explorer 4.0 4X4
1991 BMW 735iL
"A fool and his money are soon parted" - Thomas Tusser
Re: Health Care Nightmare [Re: Bluestream] #4699446
03/19/18 08:28 AM
03/19/18 08:28 AM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 3,257
Central Virginia
Silverado12 Offline
Silverado12  Offline
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 3,257
Central Virginia
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
Originally Posted By: bbhero
"nearly" free....

NOTHING IS "FREE".... Someone is PAYING. On the other end of this.... IS SOMEONE is getting PAID for their time and services provided... Supplies are PAID for...



Free free free free....

Lack of any deeper level critical thinking is clearly missing here.




Agreed there is no free lunch, but when you eliminate insurance companies you can have a more efficient system. Also, everyone has to pay into it, and then the healthy subsidise the sick at the lowest cost. (if any health care can be considered low cost)

Check this out:

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/07/canadians-may-pay-more-taxes-than-americans-but-theres-a-catch.html


IMO I would trade the military industrial complex any day for good national health care + a little extra in taxes. Keep in mind the extra taxes are probably less than the insurance premiums anyways and everyone is covered.


12 Chevy Silverado ext. cab LS, 2WD 4.3 auto
18 Mustang GT 5.0 auto
07 Harley Dyna Street Bob 96 c.i. 6 sp.
00 Mustang GT auto
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