Seems to be a Quest for Longer OCI's

[bumpasmerc]

Newbie here. I've been lurking on this site for a while and am confused about the apparent quest among some members to extend OCI's to unprecedented levels ie. 15k, 20k or even 25k.

Could someone explain the logic behind this quest ?

I gather that it may be for several reasons: protect the environment from used motor oil, save money by limiting the frequency of oil changes or just the satisfaction of achieving long OCI's without engine damage. One member seems to promote very long OCI's in the belief that engine wear is not significantly different using fresher oil or oil with high mileage. (please forgive me sir if I over simplified).

However these reasons don't justify IMO, risking thousands of dollars for repairs or replacement of an engine considering a saving of only a few hundred dollars per year on reduced number of oil changes. I know I am missing something here and there is probably a perspective that I can't yet grasp.

 

[Snagglefoot]

Tight Wads

 

[Leo99]

It's adding to the body of knowledge through first-hand accounts and accumulation of data. There is a lot of "bro science" with regard to vehicle maintenance and some folks want real data to justify the maintenance recommendations. Therefore, some folks choose to ignore the recommendations and see what happens if they push their OCI beyond what some folks think is achievable.

 

[doitmyself]

The risk the OP talks about is not there IF we are talking about "normal" conditions. Would you repaint your house every 4 years when there was evidence that the paint lasts well beyond 10 years? Why risk ruining your $200,000 dollar home. Exact same logic. Today's oils in today's engines have been proven to be effective well beyond the old 3,000 mile, 3 month recommendations.

There were discussions almost 10 years ago about the studies that indicated new oil produces more wear than seasoned oil. I don't know what the current thinking is on this, so make up your own mind after you study the research data: https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/1528239/1 I think some believe the studies suggest that over-changing your oil could result in more wear.

If the OP is about those here who push the oil beyond the current recommended boundaries, that's a different story. Some people just like to tinker with things. Good for them.

 

[JLTD]

Who among us hasn't said, "Let's see what she'll do"

 

[farrarfan1]

Originally Posted By: bumpasmerc


Could someone explain the logic behind this quest ?


Because it's their car, their money, and no ones business but their own what they do with either.

 

[Nick1994]

Who is doing these long OCI's?

 

[Patman]

Originally Posted By: Nick1994

Who is doing these long OCI's?


I agree, if anything on here I think the trend on this site is going a little shorter on the OCIs than in the past.

 

[MRtv]

Originally Posted By: Patman
Originally Posted By: Nick1994

Who is doing these long OCI's?


I agree, if anything on here I think the trend on this site is going a little shorter on the OCIs than in the past.


I have noticed this too. I am glad when vehicle owners don't try to SAVE a little on oil while possibly DESTROYING the vehicle in the process. Some engine types can go long, others not so much. Some engines have huge sumps and great reserves to take them longer. Some a tiny sump and no reserves beyond a handful of miles. I am intrigued by the logic of some who say why they do shorter OCI. Many of them make a lot of sense.

 

[FermeLaPorte]

A few days ago there was a thread about a guy doing a 15k oci with Mobil, but his previous oci's had been 5-6k with a myriad of other oils. Needless to say, he blamed Mobil for the bad wear metals shown in the uoa.

There's a lot of pseudoscience going on here. Sone engines can go 10,000 miles on an OCI's. This man in particular had an engine that recommended far less miles on an OCI yet went 3x that on an OCI and blamed an oil company. Just remember this site is sponsored by Shell

 

[oldmaninsc]

Originally Posted By: Patman
Originally Posted By: Nick1994

Who is doing these long OCI's?


I agree, if anything on here I think the trend on this site is going a little shorter on the OCIs than in the past.


Exactly! I see so many people who think the auto makers are ok to design the car, but aren't smart enough to figure out when the oil should be changed.

Also what is considered "longer OCI"? 5K miles, 10K miles, 15k miles?

 

[danez_yoda]

The progression as the early montra was 3month/3000 mile in the 80s and 90s. Then in the late 90s it moved to 5000 mile oci on conventional oil but the oldtimers still did 3k to be safe. Well the aoi standards back then were API SJ or so. Now we are on SN and heading to SN+. Much better oil than in the past.

Back to the mid 90s, synthetic oils came out (Mobil 1 and Amsoil) to the general market and were very expensive. Compared to ~1.00/qt for conventional. They touted the vastly superior lubrication properties to allow long ocis up to 25k miles to justify the price. Oil filter change was all that was required.

That began the push for longer andlonger ocis. Now quality “synthetic” oils are on the market for relatively low prices so there is no need to push the ocis longer just to justify the big price boost comared to conventional.

Still for 5k, oci a quality sn speced conventional is fine for normal daily driving and a synthetic couls easily take you to 10k.

For myself. I change the lowest cost major brand synthetic (penzoil, quaker, mobil, castrol, etc) that i can get for under $12/5qt jug every 5k miles. I like to inspect all the other parts while under there and grease my main drive shaft ujoints.

Everyone makes their personal decision.

If you came here looking for the best oils for your vehicle. Ther is good news. Any regularly. Changed oil with a rating at or above your manufacturers recommedation will run your engine past 150k miles and likely passed 200k. Pick whichever you want. I choose the lowest price one.

 

[WobblyElvis]

[/quote]
Because it's their car, their money, and no ones business but their own what they do with either.[/quote]

+1

 

[oil_burner]

well it's a bit like this.

its pretty well proven that if you floss after each meal and brush 3x daily you are going to eliminate ever having cavities and you will definitely have healthier teeth, saving thousands of dollars at the dentist, and your teeth are going to last a lot longer until you need dentures.

So knowing this information and knowing that it is free to brush and floss your teeth, are you going to start carrying around a toothbrush and doing it after each meal? Thought so.

Exact same thing applies to diet and exercise. Just eating right and staying in shape could add years to your life, how much is that worth? And yet how many hours do you spend researching a healthy meal plans or exercise routines compared to technical oil specs and what OCI is appropriate for a car...an inanimate object you own and can be easily replaced. And yet it brings out the OCD in people like their engine is their first born child and if it were to wear out one day there should be a full blown funeral.

 

[MolaKule]

I always point to the fact that in almost every Owner's Manual, there is what is called a, "Severe Service" maintenance schedule.

My philosophy is if you follow this schedule, your driveline components will last longer.

 

[Bud]

Originally Posted By: JLTD
Who among us hasn't said, "Let's see what she'll do"

Last time I said that I got slapped.

 

[volk06]

I run 10-13K OCI's on my 2012 Focus. I have done 2 OCI's so far and it has 60K on it. The UOA comes back with the same average of wear metals as an OCI of 7K and plenty of TBN left. I use castrol edge ep or Mobil 1 EP with a FU or M1 filter. I burn no oil between oil changes, drive 25 miles one way to work at 60mph. This normally is about 10 months for an OCI.

With the UOA coming back as great as they are and the engine is still shiny as new inside, why not run the longer OCI with no detrimental effects? Sure saves me some time vs the 6K ocis I was doing.

However, on the F150, 4K max OCI with full synthetic, which is also about 1 year. With the ecoboost there is no way I'm running longer than 4K. I have run to 6.5K and the UOA came back ok, however I just don't feel comfortable doing that anymore with as few as miles I put on the truck now.

In a nut shell, extended OCI's is definitely dependent on each individual vehicle based on service schedule, driving pattern, engine technology and wear patterns.

 

[SZR48207]

We have one guy here who uses a bypass filter on his truck and technically doesn't change his oil ever. He adds a couple of quarts between when he takes a sample of the oil for analysis but the molecules from his original fill are still there.

I'm all for people doing wacky things to challenge the status quo. Maybe one day we'll all be using bypass filters since it ends up using less oil overall?

 

[dnewton3]

Originally Posted By: bumpasmerc
Newbie here. I've been lurking on this site for a while and am confused about the apparent quest among some members to extend OCI's to unprecedented levels ie. 15k, 20k or even 25k.

Could someone explain the logic behind this quest ?

I gather that it may be for several reasons: protect the environment from used motor oil, save money by limiting the frequency of oil changes or just the satisfaction of achieving long OCI's without engine damage. One member seems to promote very long OCI's in the belief that engine wear is not significantly different using fresher oil or oil with high mileage. (please forgive me sir if I over simplified).

However these reasons don't justify IMO, risking thousands of dollars for repairs or replacement of an engine considering a saving of only a few hundred dollars per year on reduced number of oil changes. I know I am missing something here and there is probably a perspective that I can't yet grasp.



What seems confusing to you?

Your presumption, the flaw therein, is that "risk" is present at some mentally predetermined OCI.

ANY OCI can be run too long.
ANY OCI can bee too short.
ANY lube can be run too long.
ANY lube can be wasted.

The key is to use UOAs, and PCs, and physical observations, to get an overall view of wear rates in long term use.

It is proven beyond any doubt that wear rates generally start to decrease at 3k miles, and that trend continues out to 15k miles. Past that? Who knows ... I don't have decent data past that point.

Let's just use 15k miles as the self-imposed limit for this discussion. That in mind, two things are totally true:
shorter OCIs do not reduce the wear rates
longer OCIs do not increase the wear rates
12,000 UOAs cannot be viewed as anecdotal; the data is real.


If someone would like to counter this information, I ask that you bring up the real, tangible, hard data so we can analyze it. Otherwise, I'll presume it's just more hyperbole. Not marketing rhetoric and internet gibberish; I mean real data done with statistical analysis.

The reason to extend an OCI is to get value from the expenditures. Not to increase risk, but to manage risk within a well defined, pragmatic maintenance plan using multiple tools to track wear rates. Unlike many BITOGers who just use UOAs as toys; toys they don't understand how to use.

 

[madeej11]

Don't forget we have to consider the OEM's are going to be conservative on their OCI recommendations to protect themselves. Personally the moment after my warranty is done I'm going to stretch my Oci's. I agree basically with doitmyself's post and the link provided. I believe "seasoned" engine oil will show less wear up to a certain point. So you'll see as time goes by here on Bitog there are two schools, long vs short and thick vs thin. Enjoy!