Recommendation for Supercharged LS w Heads + Cam

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Hi guys,

I have a 2011 CTS-V that i'll be installing ported heads and a cam in in the next couple of weeks. The car is about to hit 150,000 km's
I've been using Mobil 1 0w40 with Delco filter and it's been recommended from the vendor that I purchased the parts from for me to use Redline 5w30 especially after first fill after cam install since it has more Zinc.
What are your recommendations?
 
Originally Posted By: octhis
I guess because of the higher lift cam is why it was recommended


Certainly the mechanic has a vested interest in this. The zinc and phosphate numbers are up in the 2500 ppm range which is about 3 times normal SN oil.

Quick question for the others, why was API trying to get the zinc and phosphate numbers down. Was it a catalytic converter issues? Redline is basically a racing oil and wasn't meant for the street. What's the downside for Octhis in using the Redline?
 
I have a gallon container of Redline 5W30 right in front of me. On the back label it says "NOT for break-in of engines-allow 2000 miles" So even Redline is telling you to wait. You might want to use a dedicated break in oil. Just my 2 pennies.
 
Motor is broken in except for cam and valve components. Redline fine for track days and strip time. I'd say break-in of cam bits should be on high quality dino/semi like Brad Penn, Delo 400 15W-30 SD (severe duty), or VR-1 silver bottle. Enough ZDDP that if you get a momentary skid, it might recover... If there is a real cam issue, no oil will save you.

Dino's and semi's have a more widely varying oil structure. We're not worried about NOACK here. The oil will be out before aging is a concern. But having that molecular spread is good for new parts meeting each other for the first time
smile.gif
 
Originally Posted By: octhis
I guess because of the higher lift cam is why it was recommended


As well as most likely significantly higher spring seat pressures than factory.

Everyone keeps repeating the "IF it's not flat tappet, then it does NOT need more anti-wear/anti-friction additives" BITOG mantra, but there could STILL BE situations where they ARE called for.
wink.gif

(This is NOT one of the majority mundane, 'point A to point B' grocery-getter applications on here, being an aftermarket cam/heads/springs/etc. setup, PLUS I'm going to guess, MORE BOOST from a smaller pulley being installed, AND a fairly radical tune on top of all of that to help take advantage of it all!)

Octhis' might just be one of these scenarios, depending on just how radical that aftermarket valve train is in actuality.
The extra moly in the RL can only help that, even if the ZDDP is a slight overkill.
 
Originally Posted By: octhis
I guess because of the higher lift cam is why it was recommended


What are the specs on the cam? Generally roller cams are far less demanding (by virtue of being roller) in the AW department, even with faster ramps and higher lift.

M1 0w-40 is already higher in the AW department than the factory recommended SN 5w-30, so you've already stepped it up from stock AW levels.
 
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: octhis
I guess because of the higher lift cam is why it was recommended


What are the specs on the cam? Generally roller cams are far less demanding (by virtue of being roller) in the AW department, even with faster ramps and higher lift.

M1 0w-40 is already higher in the AW department than the factory recommended SN 5w-30, so you've already stepped it up from stock AW levels.


The cam has over .600 lift and dual spring kit.
 
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Originally Posted By: octhis
I guess because of the higher lift cam is why it was recommended


As well as most likely significantly higher spring seat pressures than factory.

Everyone keeps repeating the "IF it's not flat tappet, then it does NOT need more anti-wear/anti-friction additives" BITOG mantra, but there could STILL BE situations where they ARE called for.
wink.gif

(This is NOT one of the majority mundane, 'point A to point B' grocery-getter applications on here, being an aftermarket cam/heads/springs/etc. setup, PLUS I'm going to guess, MORE BOOST from a smaller pulley being installed, AND a fairly radical tune on top of all of that to help take advantage of it all!)

Octhis' might just be one of these scenarios, depending on just how radical that aftermarket valve train is in actuality.
The extra moly in the RL can only help that, even if the ZDDP is a slight overkill.


You understand exactly what i'm up to.
The car right now has more boost and cooling mods. It's putting down about 570whp. I'll be increasing boost a bit further with the cam and heads along with shifting at a higher rpm than I do now.
 
Originally Posted By: Snagglefoot
Originally Posted By: octhis
I guess because of the higher lift cam is why it was recommended


Certainly the mechanic has a vested interest in this. The zinc and phosphate numbers are up in the 2500 ppm range which is about 3 times normal SN oil.

Quick question for the others, why was API trying to get the zinc and phosphate numbers down. Was it a catalytic converter issues? Redline is basically a racing oil and wasn't meant for the street. What's the downside for Octhis in using the Redline?


I don't have converters anymore, but from what I remember, Zinc and phosphate is also bad for the o2's
 
Originally Posted By: octhis
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: octhis
I guess because of the higher lift cam is why it was recommended


What are the specs on the cam? Generally roller cams are far less demanding (by virtue of being roller) in the AW department, even with faster ramps and higher lift.

M1 0w-40 is already higher in the AW department than the factory recommended SN 5w-30, so you've already stepped it up from stock AW levels.


The cam has over .600 lift and dual spring kit.


Do you happen to know open pressure? Is this an Ed Curtis setup?
 
Run a proper break in oil for the cam. It’s cheap insurance. Lucas makes one that’s affordable. After that I’d stick with either an A3/B4 euro oil (that is A40, 229.5, and LL-01 approved). Or, if you have the coin, run a proper oil for your car like Redline, RP HPS, or something with lots of additives.
 
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: octhis
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: octhis
I guess because of the higher lift cam is why it was recommended


What are the specs on the cam? Generally roller cams are far less demanding (by virtue of being roller) in the AW department, even with faster ramps and higher lift.

M1 0w-40 is already higher in the AW department than the factory recommended SN 5w-30, so you've already stepped it up from stock AW levels.


The cam has over .600 lift and dual spring kit.


Do you happen to know open pressure? Is this an Ed Curtis setup?


This isn't an Ed Curtis setup.
I'm using Brian Tooley springs 155 lbs @ 1.780", 380 lbs @ 1.180", 400 lbs @ 1.130, coil bind @ 1.070"
 
Originally Posted By: octhis

This isn't an Ed Curtis setup.
I'm using Brian Tooley springs 155 lbs @ 1.780", 380 lbs @ 1.180", 400 lbs @ 1.130, coil bind @ 1.070"


Ahhh, OK. Not too insane. Honestly, I don't think you need the Redline and would be fine with the M1 0w-40. Jay Allen, who used to be big in the SBF scene was always a fan of really high spring pressure. K-Motion K800's were a pretty common rec, and those puppies are 165 on the seat and 471 @ 1.2, bind was at 1.085. He never had any exotic lube recommendations and I don't ever recall any issues with wear.

Generally, you don't hear about roller cam wear in general. If a lifter binds up and stops rolling, it is going to eat into the lobe regardless of 1,000ppm of ZDDP or 2,500ppm. At that juncture, it makes absolutely no difference.

IIRC, the LS7 came with a cam that was .591 lift from the factory, and its oil requirements were not lofty either.
 
There also was a theory a while age (don't know how valid, nor whether or not it was proven out or refuted) that a super high dose of ZDDP (like twice or more that allowed by SN specs) actually caused roller lifters to stop rolling due to TOO MUCH 'wedge' buildup plating in front of the wheel (think trying to stop in loose snow without the help of ABS, and the snow buildup in front of the tires slowing you down stopping you).

It is a shame that there are not many very high (trimer) moly content oils out there which do NOT also have a ridiculous amount of ZDDP content.
Yes, I know that some ZDDP is necessary in order for the moly to work properly, but it could be just an SN GF5 level, and still have enough synergistic effect.
wink.gif
 
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