RIP Stephen Hawking

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Originally Posted By: Yah-Tah-Hey

And what caused the cause? Maybe existence is the default. If you have to appeal to the supernatural, your argument is weak.


And likewise if "existence" is the default, then that theory is weak as well. There are many problems related to simply stating, "there is an existence."

Stephen Hawking was a physicist dealing with the subtopic of Cosmology. Cosmology is not science in the usual repeatable laboratory sense. All interpretations rely on one’s set of or one’s beginning set of assumptions. These assumptions determine the model, and the standard big bang model has many fundamental, unprovable assumptions, of which the cosmological principle is key.


However, the following explains the logic for a first cause:

Whatever begins to exist has a cause - Everything which has a beginning has a cause - The Universe began to exist - The Universe has a beginning - Therefore, the Universe has a cause.

As I see it, your beginning assumptions determine how you will chase and explain the beginning cause and how you will interpret your assumptions after that existence came into effect.


The sense or hype that the materialistic or naturalistic view of science has superior scientific respectability is not only superficial, it is arrogant and unfounded.
 
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Originally Posted By: Yah-Tah-Hey
Originally Posted By: Tony10s
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: Kira
Faith and science can ABSOLUTELY exist together in this world.

You'd think the more someone knows about the Universe (including this rock), the more they would realize it's not all just a gigantic random chance it all exists for no reason.

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And when it comes down to it, there had to be an uncaused cause, but some people cannot wrap their minds around that ... so they dismiss it and they refuse to believe it.
And what caused the cause? Maybe existence is the default. If you have to appeal to the supernatural, your argument is weak.


The main problem is the belief that there has to be a cause. The reason that most proofs fall apart is that you can't show that your assumptions are true.
 
Originally Posted By: Wolf359


...The main problem is the belief that there has to be a cause. The reason that most proofs fall apart is that you can't show that your assumptions are true.


A computer comes into existence due to the fact that intelligent minds created it, which is the current state of reality.
 
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Computer, watch, 747, mousetrap, Venus Flytrap, the universe. You can use any object you want but Behe's Intelligent Design is pseudoscience. And I can't believe we are still here.
 
Originally Posted By: Yah-Tah-Hey
Computer, watch, 747, mousetrap, Venus Flytrap, the universe. You can use any object you want but Behe's Intelligent Design is pseudoscience. And I can't believe we are still here.



So it doesn't take intelligence to conceptualize, design, build, or construct objects, subsystems, and systems?
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Originally Posted By: LoneRanger
I'll go out on a limb here and risk a backlash. What did Hawking contribute to improve the human condition in a measurable and concrete way? It could be that his pie-in-the-sky theories have produced new agricultural techniques that are increasing crop yields, or his theories have resulted directly in new cures being developed for diseases, or other advances in medical technology. Or has it all been abstract ideas about the universe ? Doesn't count to claim he laid a foundation for potential future advances in technology that will have direct beneficial results on the human condition, only referring to the here and the now of the human race on this planet.


Hawking was one of mega physicists that developed and refined our understanding of modern physics including subparts of Quantum theory, and General/Speial theory of Relativity. These developments have radically advanced the life that you enjoy. We could not survive todaday without these acheviements. If you read up on the subject you will understand. Minor things like led's, lasors, and applications of nano-technology, synchronizing time on gps satallites bc time "speeds up" in space and slows down with satallite speed relative to clocks on earth.

I get it..its not your bag but applications of leading theories take time to reach applications. Just like 100 years ago YOU would wonder what the practical applicatioin of Einstein's Special and General theories could lead to...I just told you.
 
Pretty weak backlash, come on guys, you can give me a shellacking better than that !!
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Or... never mind.
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Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Originally Posted By: Yah-Tah-Hey
Computer, watch, 747, mousetrap, Venus Flytrap, the universe. You can use any object you want but Behe's Intelligent Design is pseudoscience. And I can't believe we are still here.

So it doesn't take intelligence to conceptualize, design, build, or construct objects, subsystems, and systems?
confused2.gif



No ... it's all just a random coincidence !! No driving force behind any of this highly "random organization" of materials and life.
 
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Originally Posted By: Yah-Tah-Hey
Computer, watch, 747, mousetrap, Venus Flytrap, the universe. You can use any object you want but Behe's Intelligent Design is pseudoscience. And I can't believe we are still here.



So it doesn't take intelligence to conceptualize, design, build, or construct objects, subsystems, and systems?
confused2.gif




Technically we're the only known intelligent life in the universe so far so of course any objects we've made was due to intelligent life. However other objects like rocks, who knows? The jury is still out on things like that. Have enough galaxies, solar systems, planets, and eventually the numbers will probably add up to where we are now. Just because you see a rock doesn't mean that anyone specifically put it there, nor can you figure out their hair color, whether it was male/female or even if it had a sex. All those are assumptions that can't be shown to be true.
 
Originally Posted By: Wolf359
Just because you see a rock doesn't mean that anyone specifically put it there, nor can you figure out their hair color, whether it was male/female or even if it had a sex. All those are assumptions that can't be shown to be true.

Or untrue
 
Originally Posted By: Al
Originally Posted By: Wolf359
Just because you see a rock doesn't mean that anyone specifically put it there, nor can you figure out their hair color, whether it was male/female or even if it had a sex. All those are assumptions that can't be shown to be true.

Or untrue


Yes, it needs to be true in order for it to be a rational and logical conclusion.

If it were changed to say that it can't be shown to be untrue, why there's an unlimited number of conclusions that can't be shown to be untrue.

Showing that your assumptions are true is the entire basis of logic and proofs. Anything else is... illogical.
 
Originally Posted By: Yah-Tah-Hey
Computer, watch, 747, mousetrap, Venus Flytrap, the universe. You can use any object you want but Behe's Intelligent Design is pseudoscience. And I can't believe we are still here.


I wouldn't be able to imagine it either, if I was a nihilist. What are the chances any of us even exist in our current capacity to still be here?
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Originally Posted By: Wolf359


...If it were changed to say that it can't be shown to be untrue, why there's an unlimited number of conclusions that can't be shown to be untrue...



I think you're confusing hypothesis with conclusion.

A conclusion "begs" for, or asks for proof and supporting data, and which truth is better?

How can you have a better truth? If the “better” truth is different than the “truth” it replaced, then the former truth wasn’t really the truth.

Scientists can look for more accurate and reliable knowledge as they attempt to explain things, but science is not truth because science changes, due to improved results from more refined experimentation and observation.
 
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