Eneos - SUSTINA SAE 0W-20

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Eneos - SUSTINA SAE 0W-20

Is this oil too good to be true? Thinking about running this in my new 2018 4Runner. Don't see any reviews. Is this the future of motor oil technology or an odd ball trying something new?

SAE GRADE 0W-20
Density, g/cm3 @ 15oC (60oF) D4052 0.842
Flash Point (COC), oC D92 226
Pour Point, oC D97 -45
Kinematic Viscosity
mm2/s @ 40 oC D445 32.7
mm2/s @ 100 oC D445 7.9
Viscosity Index D2270 229
TAN, mgKOH/g D664 2.1
TBN, mgKOH/g D2896 11.6
CCS D5293 3650 @ -35 C
MRV D4684 9630 @ -40 C
NOACK D5800 13
HT/HS D4683 2.6

What do you think?
I like the Viscosity Index of 229
I do not like the NOACK of 13

Check out how clean the pistons are in the picture on the link!
https://www.carid.com/eneos/sustina-sae-...p;url=104162854
 
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Whats so special about it? Meaningless high VI and goes up in smoke like moms cooking oil? Decent door hinge oil IMO.

27.gif
 
It's probably Group III with a ton of VII in it. The high VI is pursued by Japanese OEM's for fuel economy reasons, but if you love a volatile oil with a ton of plastic in it, it might be up your alley?

There are a number of oils with more "normal" VI values that are significantly less volatile.
 
I guess it was the description that caught my attention:

ENEOS SUSTINA Premium Synthetic Motor Oil is a premium, high performance fully synthetic motor oil formulated from JX Nippon Oil & Energy’s proprietary W BASE technology, producing extremely high VI (viscosity index) synthetic base oil that maintains a very stable oil viscosity over a wide temperature range. This technology allows ENEOS SUSTINA to remain very fluid at cold temperatures, reducing internal engine drag and improving fuel economy up to 2% compared to currently available fuel-conserving GF-4 and GF-5 oils of the same viscosity. ENEOS SUSTINA also utilizes the sulfur-free characteristics of ZP additive chemistry, reducing the formation of detergent destroying sulfuric acid, keeping your engine cleaner and running longer.
 
There were a bunch of Toy FT86/Scoobie BRZ owners using this stuff as one of the few oils which could stand up to open track use (WITHOUT "disappearing into thin air" due to, or in spite of it's NOACK), and still meet the manufacturer's specs and viscosity requirements for power train warranty purposes.

So it is highly doubtful that it is just the 'brushed off' by them as "garbage' so many on here make it out to be.
31.gif


It seems that there is still a lot of 'CATERHAM hatred' continuing on this site (this was one of HIS fave oils, price not considered), despite him not being on here pushing the high VI theory thing anymore.

IF your 4 Runner has the dual injection setup (DI AND port), and you can locate this oil at an acceptable price, try it.
wink.gif
 
Toyota specs the FT86 use 10w50 or 10w60 for track use not an xw20.
Not hatred for Caterham but the man pushed this stuff way too far like one time recommending xw20 for a BMW M car for track use.
 
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Originally Posted By: dailydriver
IF you do like it, and want to try it, GOOD LUCK in finding it anywhere, and for less than ~$18.00/quart when you do.


Actually my local NAPA used to carry Eneos in 0w-20. Don't remember the price though. Next time Im in there I will look and see if they still have it and the price.
 
Originally Posted By: Trav
Toyota specs the FT86 use 10w50 or 10w60 for track use not an xw20.
Not hatred for Caterham but the man pushed this stuff way too far like one time recommending xw20 for a BMW M car for track use.


Off topic, but wasn't AE Hass using xw20 in his Enzo? There was definitely a MASSIVE divide between the thin and thick crowd back then. This divide did bring A LOT of good discussion though, something that seems to have left this site as of late...
 
Expensive and probably not worth it unless you can get it for the same price or less than the major synthetics like M1, Edge, and PP/PUP. I think the Eneos was about $10/qt at Napa the last time I saw it.
 
Originally Posted By: klt1986
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
IF you do like it, and want to try it, GOOD LUCK in finding it anywhere, and for less than ~$18.00/quart when you do.


Actually my local NAPA used to carry Eneos in 0w-20. Don't remember the price though. Next time Im in there I will look and see if they still have it and the price.


They only carry, or can even order (unless that has changed in the last two years, and Altrom can now get this stuff?) the regular Eneos lineup, NOT their Sustina line, which is usually much higher cost (and spec).
frown.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Trav
Toyota specs the FT86 use 10w50 or 10w60 for track use not an xw20.
Not hatred for Caterham but the man pushed this stuff way too far like one time recommending xw20 for a BMW M car for track use.


Maybe they were using it for the street then, or before they all saw problems with most 0W-20s for open track use.
21.gif


WHEN did the Nippon Juggernaut tell their owners to use the heavier swills for road course use?
 
Originally Posted By: RamFan
Originally Posted By: Trav
Toyota specs the FT86 use 10w50 or 10w60 for track use not an xw20.
Not hatred for Caterham but the man pushed this stuff way too far like one time recommending xw20 for a BMW M car for track use.


Off topic, but wasn't AE Hass using xw20 in his Enzo? There was definitely a MASSIVE divide between the thin and thick crowd back then. This divide did bring A LOT of good discussion though, something that seems to have left this site as of late...


Yes, he used a way lower viscosity oil than their makers called for in ALL of his various exotics/hypercars.
But, in all fairness, he mostly drove them like a reserved granny, so that may not be the greatest indicator of how the 'water-like'(as so many on here label them) would work/last in those rides when 'driven as they were BUILT to be driven'.
wink.gif
 
An oil similar to TGMO with all the same faults & more...

This is a Japanese oil that focuses on fuel economy over all other considerations. I would expect this to contain a high Moly treat. It looks like it's using PMA VII (very high VI, very low KV40 plus low Pour Point). It's worth pointing out that the low-end CCS-35 puts this oil halfway to being a -5W20 (not that there is such a thing).

The piston photographs look to be from the Sequence IIIG 100 hour/150°C engine test. The Sustina piston looks very clean but I would personally be sceptical that this piston came from a test on the 0W20. There's a Sustina 5W30 and yes, I could believe it might give such a clean piston but the 0W20? Hmmm...

Finally I would have concerns over the use of sulphur-free Zinc in this oil. About a year ago I read a PhD thesis which compared sulphur-free Zinc to bog standard ZDDP. It memory serves, it was only about half as effective. You can mask this if you're using great gobs of Moly but it would still bother me as there's virtually no history of how this stuff performs in the field (vs six decades of use for standard ZDDP).
 
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Originally Posted By: SonofJoe
An oil similar to TGMO with all the same faults & more...

This is a Japanese oil that focuses on fuel economy over all other considerations. I would expect this to contain a high Moly treat. It looks like it's using PMA VII (very high VI, very low KV40 plus low Pour Point). It's worth pointing out that the low-end CCS-35 puts this oil halfway to being a -5W20 (not that there is such a thing).

The piston photographs look to be from the Sequence IIIG 100 hour/150°C engine test. The Sustina piston looks very clean but I would personally be sceptical that this piston came from a test on the 0W20. There's a Sustina 5W30 and yes, I could believe it might give such a clean piston but the 0W20? Hmmm...

Finally I would have concerns over the use of sulphur-free Zinc in this oil. About a year ago I read a PhD thesis which compared sulphur-free Zinc to bog standard ZDDP. It memory serves, it was only about half as effective. You can mask this if you're using great gobs of Moly but it would still bother me as there's virtually no history of how this stuff performs in the field (vs six decades of use for standard ZDDP).


Why wouldn't pistons remain clean(lack of coking) with a quality 0-20 synthetic oil?
 
Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: SonofJoe
An oil similar to TGMO with all the same faults & more...

This is a Japanese oil that focuses on fuel economy over all other considerations. I would expect this to contain a high Moly treat. It looks like it's using PMA VII (very high VI, very low KV40 plus low Pour Point). It's worth pointing out that the low-end CCS-35 puts this oil halfway to being a -5W20 (not that there is such a thing).

The piston photographs look to be from the Sequence IIIG 100 hour/150°C engine test. The Sustina piston looks very clean but I would personally be sceptical that this piston came from a test on the 0W20. There's a Sustina 5W30 and yes, I could believe it might give such a clean piston but the 0W20? Hmmm...

Finally I would have concerns over the use of sulphur-free Zinc in this oil. About a year ago I read a PhD thesis which compared sulphur-free Zinc to bog standard ZDDP. It memory serves, it was only about half as effective. You can mask this if you're using great gobs of Moly but it would still bother me as there's virtually no history of how this stuff performs in the field (vs six decades of use for standard ZDDP).


Why wouldn't pistons remain clean(lack of coking) with a quality 0-20 synthetic oil?



Most of the piston deposits on the Sequence IIIG engine test are Noack related. The deposits are caused by oil vapour being routed through the PCV system and burned in the combustion chambers so the higher the Noack, the worse the deposits.
 
Originally Posted By: SonofJoe
Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: SonofJoe
An oil similar to TGMO with all the same faults & more...

This is a Japanese oil that focuses on fuel economy over all other considerations. I would expect this to contain a high Moly treat. It looks like it's using PMA VII (very high VI, very low KV40 plus low Pour Point). It's worth pointing out that the low-end CCS-35 puts this oil halfway to being a -5W20 (not that there is such a thing).

The piston photographs look to be from the Sequence IIIG 100 hour/150°C engine test. The Sustina piston looks very clean but I would personally be sceptical that this piston came from a test on the 0W20. There's a Sustina 5W30 and yes, I could believe it might give such a clean piston but the 0W20? Hmmm...

Finally I would have concerns over the use of sulphur-free Zinc in this oil. About a year ago I read a PhD thesis which compared sulphur-free Zinc to bog standard ZDDP. It memory serves, it was only about half as effective. You can mask this if you're using great gobs of Moly but it would still bother me as there's virtually no history of how this stuff performs in the field (vs six decades of use for standard ZDDP).


Why wouldn't pistons remain clean(lack of coking) with a quality 0-20 synthetic oil?



Most of the piston deposits on the Sequence IIIG engine test are Noack related. The deposits are caused by oil vapour being routed through the PCV system and burned in the combustion chambers so the higher the Noack, the worse the deposits.


And don't forget, this is acknowledged by the OEMs...

THEY are the ones who lobbied for the deposit tests to be relaxed for 0W20, and for 0W20 only...
 
But there is no evidence of ring coking in my many year use of 0-20 oils or the tear down engine test we have seen. However I would be interested in reading about this. Can you provide something along this line? Thanks.
 
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Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Originally Posted By: RamFan
Originally Posted By: Trav
Toyota specs the FT86 use 10w50 or 10w60 for track use not an xw20.
Not hatred for Caterham but the man pushed this stuff way too far like one time recommending xw20 for a BMW M car for track use.


Off topic, but wasn't AE Hass using xw20 in his Enzo? There was definitely a MASSIVE divide between the thin and thick crowd back then. This divide did bring A LOT of good discussion though, something that seems to have left this site as of late...


Yes, he used a way lower viscosity oil than their makers called for in ALL of his various exotics/hypercars.
But, in all fairness, he mostly drove them like a reserved granny, so that may not be the greatest indicator of how the 'water-like'(as so many on here label them) would work/last in those rides when 'driven as they were BUILT to be driven'.
wink.gif



When AE Haas said they drained the oil then started the engine to force the rest of the remaining oil out it sort of made me wonder.
An engine is an engine exotic or not they don't like running sans oil.
 
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