Low Ash Content

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If a diesel requires a low ash content oil because of the DEF filter, would it matter what the ash content was if the motor did not burn any oil? My Mercedes requires 229.51 which is hard to find and expensive. It does not burn ANY oil, so why does it need it. I will still run the good oil but I was just wondering.
 
It still matters as a modern diesel recycles exhaust gas with the EGR to lower O2 content to try and help with the Nox. The DPF only burns off soot not the ash. Ash can only be physically removed and the soot that burns off becomes ash so yes ash content matters and an extra buck on oil is way cheaper than replacing a DPF/
 
You for some reason you bought a Mercedes and the recommended oil is to expensive? Am I missing something
 
Theoretically if no oil goes down the exhaust then no ash will accumulate in the DPF and all is good. However, despite what you think, some oil IS being burnt and the ash IS accumulating in the DPF. It might not be much, but it IS happening (it is an inevitable process). Having a lower ash-forming oil will extend the time it takes to block the DPF, hopefully beyond the useful life of the car.
 
Originally Posted By: weasley
Theoretically if no oil goes down the exhaust then no ash will accumulate in the DPF and all is good. However, despite what you think, some oil IS being burnt and the ash IS accumulating in the DPF. It might not be much, but it IS happening (it is an inevitable process). Having a lower ash-forming oil will extend the time it takes to block the DPF, hopefully beyond the useful life of the car.

^ This.
 
Originally Posted By: RogerBacon
My Mercedes requires 229.51 which is hard to find and expensive.


you have many DPF specs wich are almost side by side...

Quote:
GM Dexos 2
The GM Dexos 2 specification is meant to be the replacement for both GM-LL-A-025 (gasoline) and GM-LL-B-025 (diesel) specifications for the European market. Oils meeting GM Dexos 2 are required for vehicles manufactured from MY2011 onward but they are also backward compatible with older models. This specification is built on the ACEA C3 standard but also contains elements from the ILSAC GF-4 deposit formation test and low-temperature sludge build-up test.


Quote:
BMW Longlife-04 (BMW LL-04)
Special BMW approval for fully synthetic long-life oil. Viscosities are SAE 0W-30, 0W-40, 5W-30 and 5W-40. Usually required for BMWs equipped with a diesel particulate filter (DPF). Can also be used where a BMW Longlife-98 or BMW Longlife-01 oil is recommended.


Quote:
MB 229.51
Low SAPS Long Life engine oil for diesel engines with particle filter meeting emission EU-4 -> standards.


VAG is a little different and above other standards....it has stringest norms regarding wear and piston deposits....especially @LL interval

Quote:
VW 507.00
Low SAPS oils suitable for Euro 4 engines and almost all VAG diesel engines from 2000 onwards with extended service intervals, unitary injector pumps and also Pumpe-Düse ("PD") engines. Excludes V10, R5 engines and VW Commercial vehicles without fitted DPF (diesel particulate filters) – these must use a 506 01 specification oil.


https://www.oilspecifications.org/

So if you can get any other oil with specs above you can easily go away with that....especially that will not be a problem because you tend to change your oil sooner over the pond
smile.gif
 
Originally Posted By: RogerBacon
My Mercedes requires 229.51 which is hard to find and expensive.
Canadian Tire carries Pennzoil Euro L 5w-30 which meets this spec, but yeah, not exactly cheap.
 
Originally Posted By: CT8
You for some reason you bought a Mercedes and the recommended oil is to expensive? Am I missing something


You just described 80% of the M-B owners in Waco

Bald tires,
busted turn signal and headlight lenses,
huge scratches -
but HEY -
"I'm rollin' in a BENZ!"
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Canadian Tire carries Pennzoil Euro L 5w-30 which meets this spec, but yeah, not exactly cheap.


Walmart was selling 5 quart jugs the other day for $13 each. I grabbed three.
 
"You for some reason you bought a Mercedes and the recommended oil is to expensive? Am I missing something"

Yes you are. I did not say it was too expensive, I said it was expensive. My question was why does it matter if the engine does not burn oil.
 
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I seriously doubt it matters if it doesn’t use oil.

Lots of cars burn a quart of oil every few thousand miles,
& still have catalytic devices that function perfectly
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
RogerBacon said:
My Mercedes requires 229.51 which is hard to find and expensive.
Canadian Tire carries Pennzoil Euro L 5w-30 which meets this spec, but yeah, not exactly cheap.
[/q

This seems to be a pretty good oil but I can not find the sulphated ash spec. Mobile 1 ESP is the best I found at .6
 
Originally Posted By: Linctex
I seriously doubt it matters if it doesn’t use oil.

Literally all cars burn some oil. The difference between one that "uses oil" and one that "doesn't" is just whether it burns enough to be noticed or require a top-off during the OCI.


Originally Posted By: Linctex
Lots of cars burn a quart of oil every few thousand miles,
& still have catalytic devices that function perfectly

I'm assuming by "function perfectly" you just mean "never degrade enough to trigger a CEL before the car gets junked". On that assumption, I agree.

Either way, the problem with catalytic converters is poisoning. The problem with DPFs is clogging. Those are two different things.
 
Originally Posted By: RogerBacon
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
RogerBacon said:
My Mercedes requires 229.51 which is hard to find and expensive.
Canadian Tire carries Pennzoil Euro L 5w-30 which meets this spec, but yeah, not exactly cheap.
[/q

This seems to be a pretty good oil but I can not find the sulphated ash spec.

You need oil meeting mb 229.51 spec, and it does. Everything else is splitting hair - BITOG specialty.
 
Originally Posted By: RogerBacon
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: RogerBacon
My Mercedes requires 229.51 which is hard to find and expensive.
Canadian Tire carries Pennzoil Euro L 5w-30 which meets this spec, but yeah, not exactly cheap.


This seems to be a pretty good oil but I can not find the sulphated ash spec. Mobile 1 ESP is the best I found at .6

It's probably right around 0.8%. Most MB 229.51 oils are very close to that. So are a lot of low-ash oils, for that matter. Maybe even most of them. Mobil 1 ESP Formula 5W-30 is an exception.
 
Originally Posted By: Linctex
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Canadian Tire carries Pennzoil Euro L 5w-30 which meets this spec, but yeah, not exactly cheap.


Walmart was selling 5 quart jugs the other day for $13 each. I grabbed three.


WOW. I wish I was that lucky. Good catch.
I would have picked up about 4 of them for my stash - good for 2 OC on my MB diesel.
 
Originally Posted By: RogerBacon
If a diesel requires a low ash content oil because of the DEF filter, would it matter what the ash content was if the motor did not burn any oil? My Mercedes requires 229.51 which is hard to find and expensive. It does not burn ANY oil, so why does it need it. I will still run the good oil but I was just wondering.

There is a thing called evaporation loss or NOACK.
MB229.51 is particularly hard on NOACK, not allowing above 10%. BMW LL-04 or VW504.00/507.00 allow more then that.
NOACK and amount of ash (%) are the ones that matter when it comes to DPF pollution.
For Ontario, try to find 5W30 oils, preferably Mobil1 5W30 ESP due to lower then usual ash content (0.6%) and ver low NOACK (5.6%).
 
Originally Posted By: Kamele0N
Originally Posted By: RogerBacon
My Mercedes requires 229.51 which is hard to find and expensive.


you have many DPF specs wich are almost side by side...

Quote:
GM Dexos 2
The GM Dexos 2 specification is meant to be the replacement for both GM-LL-A-025 (gasoline) and GM-LL-B-025 (diesel) specifications for the European market. Oils meeting GM Dexos 2 are required for vehicles manufactured from MY2011 onward but they are also backward compatible with older models. This specification is built on the ACEA C3 standard but also contains elements from the ILSAC GF-4 deposit formation test and low-temperature sludge build-up test.


Quote:
BMW Longlife-04 (BMW LL-04)
Special BMW approval for fully synthetic long-life oil. Viscosities are SAE 0W-30, 0W-40, 5W-30 and 5W-40. Usually required for BMWs equipped with a diesel particulate filter (DPF). Can also be used where a BMW Longlife-98 or BMW Longlife-01 oil is recommended.


Quote:
MB 229.51
Low SAPS Long Life engine oil for diesel engines with particle filter meeting emission EU-4 -> standards.


VAG is a little different and above other standards....it has stringest norms regarding wear and piston deposits....especially @LL interval

Quote:
VW 507.00
Low SAPS oils suitable for Euro 4 engines and almost all VAG diesel engines from 2000 onwards with extended service intervals, unitary injector pumps and also Pumpe-Düse ("PD") engines. Excludes V10, R5 engines and VW Commercial vehicles without fitted DPF (diesel particulate filters) – these must use a 506 01 specification oil.


https://www.oilspecifications.org/

So if you can get any other oil with specs above you can easily go away with that....especially that will not be a problem because you tend to change your oil sooner over the pond
smile.gif


MB229.51 is slightly more stringent then VW504.00/507.00 when it comes to piston deposits. VW504.00/507.00 is more stringent wear wise BUT ONLY in 0/5W30 grades. VW504.00/507.00 is NOT applicable in 0/5W40 grades, and MB229.5 as well as BMW LL-04 is.
 
I'd agree with Brother Weasley with one caveat...

Theoretically, if you're not burning any oil, you're not pushing any ash out in to the exhaust, so you won't ever plug your DPF (except with soot of course). I'd also agree that all engines burn some oil even if 'some' is a very small number.

However I'd contend that this small amount of oil, is more likely to be additive-free (and therefore ash-free) light base oil that's been stripped out of the crankcase by the action of hot blow-by and the re-evaporation of condensed, unburnt/partially burnt diesel fuel (as opposed to fully formulated, ash containing oil that flows upwards passed the rings or into the combustion chamber through leaking valve seals).

Burning a small amount of oil might yet be consistent with putting no ash down your exhaust pipe.
 
Last edited:
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