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Low Ash Content #4692522
03/12/18 02:40 PM
03/12/18 02:40 PM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 111
Ontario
RogerBacon Offline OP
RogerBacon  Offline OP

Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 111
Ontario
If a diesel requires a low ash content oil because of the DEF filter, would it matter what the ash content was if the motor did not burn any oil? My Mercedes requires 229.51 which is hard to find and expensive. It does not burn ANY oil, so why does it need it. I will still run the good oil but I was just wondering.

Re: Low Ash Content [Re: RogerBacon] #4692550
03/12/18 03:09 PM
03/12/18 03:09 PM
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 375
Huntington WV
dbias Offline
dbias  Offline

Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 375
Huntington WV
It still matters as a modern diesel recycles exhaust gas with the EGR to lower O2 content to try and help with the Nox. The DPF only burns off soot not the ash. Ash can only be physically removed and the soot that burns off becomes ash so yes ash content matters and an extra buck on oil is way cheaper than replacing a DPF/


2011 VW JETTA Castrol Edge 0W-40
2012 FORD TRANSIT CONNECT Castrol Edge 5W-20
2016 HONDA CIVIC COUPE Frankenbrew 0W-20 to 5w-40
2017 AUDI A4 Mobil1 0W-40
Re: Low Ash Content [Re: RogerBacon] #4692561
03/12/18 03:23 PM
03/12/18 03:23 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 13,324
Canyon County Idaho
CT8 Offline
CT8  Offline

Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 13,324
Canyon County Idaho
You for some reason you bought a Mercedes and the recommended oil is to expensive? Am I missing something


2015 Ford F150 2.7
2018 Ford F350 6.2
Re: Low Ash Content [Re: RogerBacon] #4692578
03/12/18 03:43 PM
03/12/18 03:43 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 841
UK
weasley Offline
weasley  Offline

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 841
UK
Theoretically if no oil goes down the exhaust then no ash will accumulate in the DPF and all is good. However, despite what you think, some oil IS being burnt and the ash IS accumulating in the DPF. It might not be much, but it IS happening (it is an inevitable process). Having a lower ash-forming oil will extend the time it takes to block the DPF, hopefully beyond the useful life of the car.


2017 SEAT Leon 1.4 EcoTSI 150 FR Technology DSG
2018 Volvo XC60 D4
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Re: Low Ash Content [Re: weasley] #4692610
03/12/18 04:17 PM
03/12/18 04:17 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 11,555
PA
d00df00d Offline
d00df00d  Offline

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 11,555
PA
Originally Posted By: weasley
Theoretically if no oil goes down the exhaust then no ash will accumulate in the DPF and all is good. However, despite what you think, some oil IS being burnt and the ash IS accumulating in the DPF. It might not be much, but it IS happening (it is an inevitable process). Having a lower ash-forming oil will extend the time it takes to block the DPF, hopefully beyond the useful life of the car.

^ This.


2008 BMW M3 Sedan 6MT
Re: Low Ash Content [Re: RogerBacon] #4692617
03/12/18 04:25 PM
03/12/18 04:25 PM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,601
Slovenia EU
Kamele0N Offline
Kamele0N  Offline

Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,601
Slovenia EU
Originally Posted By: RogerBacon
My Mercedes requires 229.51 which is hard to find and expensive.


you have many DPF specs wich are almost side by side...

Quote:
GM Dexos 2
The GM Dexos 2 specification is meant to be the replacement for both GM-LL-A-025 (gasoline) and GM-LL-B-025 (diesel) specifications for the European market. Oils meeting GM Dexos 2 are required for vehicles manufactured from MY2011 onward but they are also backward compatible with older models. This specification is built on the ACEA C3 standard but also contains elements from the ILSAC GF-4 deposit formation test and low-temperature sludge build-up test.


Quote:
BMW Longlife-04 (BMW LL-04)
Special BMW approval for fully synthetic long-life oil. Viscosities are SAE 0W-30, 0W-40, 5W-30 and 5W-40. Usually required for BMWs equipped with a diesel particulate filter (DPF). Can also be used where a BMW Longlife-98 or BMW Longlife-01 oil is recommended.


Quote:
MB 229.51
Low SAPS Long Life engine oil for diesel engines with particle filter meeting emission EU-4 -> standards.


VAG is a little different and above other standards....it has stringest norms regarding wear and piston deposits....especially @LL interval

Quote:
VW 507.00
Low SAPS oils suitable for Euro 4 engines and almost all VAG diesel engines from 2000 onwards with extended service intervals, unitary injector pumps and also Pumpe-Düse ("PD") engines. Excludes V10, R5 engines and VW Commercial vehicles without fitted DPF (diesel particulate filters) – these must use a 506 01 specification oil.


https://www.oilspecifications.org/

So if you can get any other oil with specs above you can easily go away with that....especially that will not be a problem because you tend to change your oil sooner over the pond smile


2008 Toyota Yaris 1ND-TV 1.4 D4-D Elf FullTech FE 5w30
1997 Toyota Landcruiser KZJ95 3.0 TD Shell Rimula R6M 10w40
Re: Low Ash Content [Re: RogerBacon] #4692628
03/12/18 04:35 PM
03/12/18 04:35 PM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 37,063
Great Lakes
Quattro Pete Offline
Quattro Pete  Offline

Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 37,063
Great Lakes
Originally Posted By: RogerBacon
My Mercedes requires 229.51 which is hard to find and expensive.
Canadian Tire carries Pennzoil Euro L 5w-30 which meets this spec, but yeah, not exactly cheap.


'02 530i (Edge 0W-40)
'15 Q5 3.0T (Edge 5W-40)
'18 Charger SRT (PUP 0W-40 SRT)
Re: Low Ash Content [Re: CT8] #4692889
03/12/18 08:14 PM
03/12/18 08:14 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 8,046
Waco, TX
Linctex Offline
Linctex  Offline

Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 8,046
Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: CT8
You for some reason you bought a Mercedes and the recommended oil is to expensive? Am I missing something


You just described 80% of the M-B owners in Waco

Bald tires,
busted turn signal and headlight lenses,
huge scratches -
but HEY -
"I'm rollin' in a BENZ!"


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: Low Ash Content [Re: Quattro Pete] #4692894
03/12/18 08:16 PM
03/12/18 08:16 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 8,046
Waco, TX
Linctex Offline
Linctex  Offline

Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 8,046
Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Canadian Tire carries Pennzoil Euro L 5w-30 which meets this spec, but yeah, not exactly cheap.


Walmart was selling 5 quart jugs the other day for $13 each. I grabbed three.


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: Low Ash Content [Re: RogerBacon] #4692897
03/12/18 08:18 PM
03/12/18 08:18 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 8,046
Waco, TX
Linctex Offline
Linctex  Offline

Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 8,046
Waco, TX


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: Low Ash Content [Re: CT8] #4692977
03/12/18 09:25 PM
03/12/18 09:25 PM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 111
Ontario
RogerBacon Offline OP
RogerBacon  Offline OP

Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 111
Ontario
"You for some reason you bought a Mercedes and the recommended oil is to expensive? Am I missing something"

Yes you are. I did not say it was too expensive, I said it was expensive. My question was why does it matter if the engine does not burn oil.

Last edited by RogerBacon; 03/12/18 09:37 PM.
Re: Low Ash Content [Re: RogerBacon] #4692979
03/12/18 09:27 PM
03/12/18 09:27 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 8,046
Waco, TX
Linctex Offline
Linctex  Offline

Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 8,046
Waco, TX
I seriously doubt it matters if it doesn’t use oil.

Lots of cars burn a quart of oil every few thousand miles,
& still have catalytic devices that function perfectly


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: Low Ash Content [Re: Quattro Pete] #4692992
03/12/18 09:43 PM
03/12/18 09:43 PM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 111
Ontario
RogerBacon Offline OP
RogerBacon  Offline OP

Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 111
Ontario
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
[quote=RogerBacon] My Mercedes requires 229.51 which is hard to find and expensive.
Canadian Tire carries Pennzoil Euro L 5w-30 which meets this spec, but yeah, not exactly cheap.
[/q

This seems to be a pretty good oil but I can not find the sulphated ash spec. Mobile 1 ESP is the best I found at .6

Re: Low Ash Content [Re: Linctex] #4692994
03/12/18 09:45 PM
03/12/18 09:45 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 11,555
PA
d00df00d Offline
d00df00d  Offline

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 11,555
PA
Originally Posted By: Linctex
I seriously doubt it matters if it doesn’t use oil.

Literally all cars burn some oil. The difference between one that "uses oil" and one that "doesn't" is just whether it burns enough to be noticed or require a top-off during the OCI.


Originally Posted By: Linctex
Lots of cars burn a quart of oil every few thousand miles,
& still have catalytic devices that function perfectly

I'm assuming by "function perfectly" you just mean "never degrade enough to trigger a CEL before the car gets junked". On that assumption, I agree.

Either way, the problem with catalytic converters is poisoning. The problem with DPFs is clogging. Those are two different things.


2008 BMW M3 Sedan 6MT
Re: Low Ash Content [Re: RogerBacon] #4692996
03/12/18 09:53 PM
03/12/18 09:53 PM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 37,063
Great Lakes
Quattro Pete Offline
Quattro Pete  Offline

Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 37,063
Great Lakes
Originally Posted By: RogerBacon
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
[quote=RogerBacon] My Mercedes requires 229.51 which is hard to find and expensive.
Canadian Tire carries Pennzoil Euro L 5w-30 which meets this spec, but yeah, not exactly cheap.
[/q

This seems to be a pretty good oil but I can not find the sulphated ash spec.

You need oil meeting mb 229.51 spec, and it does. Everything else is splitting hair - BITOG specialty.


'02 530i (Edge 0W-40)
'15 Q5 3.0T (Edge 5W-40)
'18 Charger SRT (PUP 0W-40 SRT)
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