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dexos1 vs dexos2, gen1 or gen2? #4691064
03/11/18 02:29 AM
03/11/18 02:29 AM
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 14
Russia
AVic Offline OP
AVic  Offline OP
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 14
Russia
Good afternoon.
GM always recommended only dexos2.
Now, GM sharply changed the recommendations - with a small volume and the turbine it is necessary to pour into engines only dexos1 gen2.
We have this information not official, people found this information from forums and other, not official sources. Though if to call to "the hot line" of GM, then, the employee (which not specialist) will answer that yes, it is necessary to use GM 5w30 dexos1 gen2.

I have opel with the A14NET engine (the turbine, 1,4 l., gasoline) 2012 with a run more than 90 thousand km. And almost all years dexos2 oil was used.
Who does not "follow" the oil and does not read the forums - they use dexos2 and do not think about anything else, the official dealers also pour dexos2. smile

In our market from dexos1 gen2 there aren't enough offers GM (very high price), wolf, and. it is more not.
There are others but they have no license or not to find.

According to characteristics, Mobil1 x1 5w30 gen1 completely there corresponds Mobil1 x1 5w30 gen2 (but mobil dexos1 gen2 not license in the Russian Federation).

My question:
For example at shell helix HX8 professional AG 5w-30, viscosity at 100 гр = 11,6 (!)
(is lower in the picture), it isn't similar to ILSAC GF-5 and A5, but at the same time it exists and dexos1 gen2.
At Mobil 1 of x1 5w30 dexos1 honor parameters same though ILSAC GF-5, dexos1.
Wolf VITALTECH 5w-30 D1 (SN-RC, GF-5, dexos1 gen2 very liquid. (!)


I think that for this engine to use "liquid" oils not really well, especially in the summer (+30 degrees). My experience says that after 3000 turns the motor begins "to ring" on such oils (I used old dexos1, at Kinematic viscosity at 100 C mm /s ~ 10).

Here also I think that it is better for my turbine and the motor? (if not to pay attention to marketing)
oils from the A3 (C2/C3) group, or, A1 (ILSAC GF-5)?
I noticed, on small engine speed everything is good and silent, And at a high speed - the engine works rigidly (loudly) and more loudly (at Mobil1 x1 5w30).

For summer, big run on the route at a high speed what you would advise?

And about this dexos1 gen2 isn't clear. In Europe one offer (dexos2) and Mobil there not offers nothing, in the Russian Federation - dexos1 gen1. In my book of 2012 only dexos2.

That it is better:
HTHS >=3.5 (as in dexos2)
or
HTHS ~ 3.1 (as in dexos1)
?
PS: Perhaps, I not really clear wrote, my English bad.

This oil:Shell Helix HX8 Professional AG 5W-30
API: SN
ILSAC GF-5
dexos1 gen2

What kind of engine oil are you pouring into this engine (A14NET) and how often do you change it? I mean owners in other countries.

Last edited by AVic; 03/11/18 02:46 AM. Reason: supplement
Re: dexos1 vs dexos2, gen1 or gen2? [Re: AVic] #4691065
03/11/18 02:55 AM
03/11/18 02:55 AM
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 14
Russia
AVic Offline OP
AVic  Offline OP
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 14
Russia
Conditions:
Only 95 petrol "Euro 5"
There are no problems with the engine. Mileage> 90 thousand km.
Mileage in winter is not big (1-3 times a week), without traffic jams - home-shop. Sometimes the track, can be high speed (3000-5000 turns, rarely, clean the engine).
In winter it can be below -30 C.
In the summer vacation - the highway, high speeds, + 30 C and above, for several hours, about 6-8 thousand km.

Re: dexos1 vs dexos2, gen1 or gen2? [Re: AVic] #4691132
03/11/18 06:47 AM
03/11/18 06:47 AM
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 14
Russia
AVic Offline OP
AVic  Offline OP
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 14
Russia
Above, I did not write very clearly. Moderators, if possible - delete.
Below is what I wanted to say.

*****************************************************
Suddenly GM decided that in small engines with a turbine it is necessary to pour engine oil dexos1 gen2. Prior to this, they always poured dexos2 and further poured (those who do not follow the forums) and the mileage of cars is already over 200 thousand km ..

But, today dexos1 gen2 is different.
There is one group with a "hot" viscosity of about 10
And the second group with a viscosity in the region of 11 or slightly higher (mobil1 x1 5w30, Shell Helix HX8 Professional AG 5W-30).


In fact, the second group does not differ from dexos2, well, only lower HTHS can.


That's the question - what are you pouring into your cars with smaller engines with a turbine, what kind of oil and how often do you change it? Can ILSAC GF-5 live as long as dexos2? I mean 7-8 thousand km. In difficult conditions.


I am confused by the "liquid" dexos1 gen2 - how will it affect the performance of the engine as a whole? On the original GM dexos1 gen2 5w30 oil - the turbine whistles, on dexos2 did not whistle.


Mobil1 x1 5w30 dexos1 gen1 and Mobil1 x1 5w30 dexos1 gen2 - one oil? By TDS is the same.

Re: dexos1 vs dexos2, gen1 or gen2? [Re: AVic] #4691525
03/11/18 12:48 PM
03/11/18 12:48 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 4,254
The Garden State
Whimsey Offline
Whimsey  Offline
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 4,254
The Garden State
First off welcome. Dexos 2 is a more stout oil than Dexos 1 Gen 2. They came out with Dexos 1 Gen 2 oil to combat a problem GM was having with their small turbo direct injected engines, LSPI, (Low Speed Pre ignition)which could cause catastrophic engine damage with LSPI. The calcium levels in motor oils contribute to LSPI so they reduced it and replaced it with magnesium. The engine tuning in North America is geared to getting better miles per gallon, this contributes to LSPI. Whether that is the same in Russia I don't know. Best of luck!

Whimsey

Re: dexos1 vs dexos2, gen1 or gen2? [Re: AVic] #4691822
03/11/18 06:23 PM
03/11/18 06:23 PM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,655
Down Under
SR5 Offline
SR5  Offline
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,655
Down Under
Welcome Friend,

A good question, and I wish I had a good answer for you, but I don't.

Should you use the high HTHS Dexos2 oil because the 1.4 L iTI Turbo engine is hard on oil? Or should you use the new low HTHS Dexos1-Gen2 oil because it has been designed to limit LSPI (low speed pre-ignition) events in small capacity turbo engines?

Last time I checked, GM-Australia was still telling people to use Dexos2 oil in the Cruze 1.4 iTi. Like you we don't have many Dexos1-Gen2 oils as they are still being rolled out.

A question: How many people have had engine failure using Dexos2 in the Cruze 1.4 iTi ? I don't know any myself


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Castrol GTX Ultraclean 15W40 A3/B3 + Wesfil-Cooper Z154
Re: dexos1 vs dexos2, gen1 or gen2? [Re: SR5] #4691918
03/11/18 08:03 PM
03/11/18 08:03 PM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 312
HondaBroMike Offline
HondaBroMike  Offline
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 312
Originally Posted By: SR5
Welcome Friend,

A good question, and I wish I had a good answer for you, but I don't.

Should you use the high HTHS Dexos2 oil because the 1.4 L iTI Turbo engine is hard on oil? Or should you use the new low HTHS Dexos1-Gen2 oil because it has been designed to limit LSPI (low speed pre-ignition) events in small capacity turbo engines?

Last time I checked, GM-Australia was still telling people to use Dexos2 oil in the Cruze 1.4 iTi. Like you we don't have many Dexos1-Gen2 oils as they are still being rolled out.

A question: How many people have had engine failure using Dexos2 in the Cruze 1.4 iTi ? I don't know any myself


Interesting, wasn't aware the Low Ht/HS Dexos 1 Gen 2 was better for LSPI than the Dexos 2 !!!



Re: dexos1 vs dexos2, gen1 or gen2? [Re: HondaBroMike] #4691969
03/11/18 09:05 PM
03/11/18 09:05 PM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,655
Down Under
SR5 Offline
SR5  Offline
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,655
Down Under
Originally Posted By: HondaBroMike

Interesting, wasn't aware the Low Ht/HS Dexos 1 Gen 2 was better for LSPI than the Dexos 2 !!!


I don't know if it's better, I just hear that D1G2 was designed with LSPI in mind, with the implication that the others were not designed with this in mind. Which is separate from how they actually behave in the field.

I haven't seen enough D2 VOAs to know where they sit with Ca and Mg detergents.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Castrol GTX Ultraclean 15W40 A3/B3 + Wesfil-Cooper Z154
Re: dexos1 vs dexos2, gen1 or gen2? [Re: SR5] #4691997
03/11/18 10:03 PM
03/11/18 10:03 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,474
Malaysia
zeng Offline
zeng  Offline
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,474
Malaysia
Originally Posted By: SR5
I haven't seen enough D2 VOAs to know where they sit with Ca and Mg detergents.

I too had not seen a Dexos 2 VOA.
But a Dexos 2 UOA in Total Quartz Ineo MC3 5W40 C3 shows Mg 13, Ca 2075.




Last edited by zeng; 03/11/18 10:07 PM.
Re: dexos1 vs dexos2, gen1 or gen2? [Re: AVic] #4692181
03/12/18 06:48 AM
03/12/18 06:48 AM
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,434
New England
Virtus_Probi Offline
Virtus_Probi  Offline
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,434
New England
Some dexos2 oils certainly might be good for LSPI mitigation, but only dexos1 Gen 2 oils are actually tested for it at this point (until we get into GF6 and SN Plus).

Based on VOAs and UOAs that I have seen, I think it is quite likely that dexos2 M1 5W30 ESP would be a good LSPI mitigator and I ran it in my DIT engine a few times before dexos1 Gen 2 went live...also liked the low NOACK loss, but didn't like the price in the US!


2014 Forester XT, 90000 miles
Last Change;
M1 5W30 d1G2
Tokyo Roki 15208AA170 filter
Re: dexos1 vs dexos2, gen1 or gen2? [Re: AVic] #4692185
03/12/18 06:55 AM
03/12/18 06:55 AM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 794
UK
weasley Offline
weasley  Offline
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 794
UK
On this side of the Atlantic, dexos2 is deployed as it covers the needs of both gasoline and diesel engines (but does not include LSPI in the spec testing). Then GM noted a problem with LSPI in some gasoline engines and issued the bulletin that dexos1 gen 2 had to be used, because it includes LSPI cover. dexos2 gen 2 is coming and will also cover LSPI, but it is behind dexos1 gen 2 so GM needed a solution fast, and dexos1 gen 2 was it. Hopefully, eventually, dexos2 gen 2 will arrive and remove the need for dexos1 gen 2, which is gasoline-only and therefore at odds with the vehicle mix over here.


2017 SEAT Leon 1.4 EcoTSI 150 FR Technology DSG
2018 Volvo XC60 D4
2011 KTM 990 SMT
Re: dexos1 vs dexos2, gen1 or gen2? [Re: weasley] #4692323
03/12/18 09:33 AM
03/12/18 09:33 AM
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 14
Russia
AVic Offline OP
AVic  Offline OP
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 14
Russia
Thanks for the discussion. smile
Originally Posted By: weasley
dexos2 gen 2

As for dexos2 gen2 - I did not know and did not hear about it (even what is expected).

I realized that LSPI was no one seen on engines with small volume and turbine, but not direct injection ...
And, the main task for all is to reduce fuel consumption ...
Well, that's understandable.
But, what would you prefer if you drove fast (140-180 km / h ... 80-115 mph)? I correctly understood that dexos2?
Apparently I did not notice the answer - how often do you change the oil in the engine?
I think ILSAC is not so reliable, or am I mistaken?

We have a proposal Mobil1 x1 5w30 dexos1 gen1. According to the characteristics, it is closer to ACEA A3 (kinematic viscosity).
I use this oil, good, but, nevertheless on it the engine works not softly on high turns.
And, it's not oil economical.


A GM 5w30 dexos1 gen2 - does not like the cold. At -20 С (-4 Fahrenheit)- already difficult start the engine. Although, there may be other reasons in my case (now warmer and start instantly and easily), and, for 2000 km this oil has become black, like roofers flux.


I want to take advantage of other people's experience :)What not to waste time that has already been spent by others...
I do not care how much fuel is spent but the health of the engine is important.
Originally Posted By: Whimsey
The engine tuning in North America is geared to getting better miles per gallon, this contributes to LSPI. Whether that is the same in Russia I don't know.

People take the expense normally on this engines from 5 liters to 14 liters as all right (1.32 - 3.7 gal)..
No one is puzzled by the low expense, but of course no one likes a big fuel consumption. Only if the fault and expense very high (malfunction, for example, of the intake manifold). At the state level, there are no such problem. wink (I did not hear)

Re: dexos1 vs dexos2, gen1 or gen2? [Re: AVic] #4693487
03/13/18 12:34 PM
03/13/18 12:34 PM
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 13
Poland
wolk Offline
wolk  Offline
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 13
Poland
Avic, I have A14NEL, basically the same just 120hp not 140hp like Yours, port injection turbocharged, chain for timing. These engines are definetely good with gmdexos2 5w30 and other dexos2 specification. As said dexos1 is for LSPI which is a problem with direct injection. So stick with dexos2. In general with adequate oil changes they run long and without problems.

The engine runs hot, thermostat is electronically controlled and engine is kept hot. Coolant connected with oil via extra heat exchanger. If you do not experience oil being burned stick with 5w30. Definetely change the oil more frequently then gm suggests - they suggest 30000km/1year (Poland) in my opinion in 15000km gm oil is toast and if severe service i'd go 7500-10000km max. Not because of tbn loss but oxidation and shearing. Gm dexos2 is cheap and adequate. Wouldnt run anything better, know people who ran 300kkms with astras with the A14NET. Also these engines can get a 40km chip without any fuss, just check for no torque spikes, as the gearboxes do not have any extra torque capacity over the standard. 6 gear gearbox had a production flaw.

Also You wrote about cranking problems at -20 celsius, mine started normally at -18 celsius after 4days off - maybe like a bit clicking for 5-7seconds after startup to get the oil everywhere, generic dealers dexos2 5w30. Cranked the same as when +18 smile

As for quick blacked oil - I have lpgwhich is easier on oil color, but still oil darkens quicker than on my other lpg cars, like 3-5x faster. Like i said - runs hot, fast oxidation. I would expect gasoline powered to be tar black at 10000km smile

Last edited by wolk; 03/13/18 12:47 PM.

'17 Opel Meriva 1.4t LPG /gm 5w30
'01/00 Ford Galaxy 2.3 LPG /elf 5w30
'99 Chrysler 300m 3.5 LPG /elf 5w30
Re: dexos1 vs dexos2, gen1 or gen2? [Re: wolk] #4694320
03/14/18 07:37 AM
03/14/18 07:37 AM
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 14
Russia
AVic Offline OP
AVic  Offline OP
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 14
Russia
wolk, thank you.
Yes, I am empirically coming to the point that, dexos2 is better for engine health.
I'm just confused that the dexos2 has a characteristic smell of burnt oil from the hood - there is a smell, then there is a deposit ....

I have made the order of oil Wolf VITALTECH 5w-30 D1 (SN-RC, GF-5, dexos1 gen2). I think to use this oil not long.

I change engine oil after 6-7,5 thousand km.

The first time, from you, I learned that there are people who drove 300 thousand km on this engine. and more. It is good news smile


Until now, the game with different oils has not affected my engine (which can not be said about my purse)

I refused GM oil because that winter I had to change the valve cover - with a certain gasoline (brand) with additives, GM oil becomes jelly and clogs not only the channels (which are released with increasing temperature) but also the membrane of the valve cover, and then repair is very expensive frown


In the summer I think to take dexos2, I think the same Wolf. Or Mobil1 ESP 5w30 - has not decided yet.
--------------
I understand, my English is very bad. Probably I could write in Russian, Poland nearby ... wink

Re: dexos1 vs dexos2, gen1 or gen2? [Re: AVic] #4695245
03/15/18 01:00 AM
03/15/18 01:00 AM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,655
Down Under
SR5 Offline
SR5  Offline
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,655
Down Under
Thinking on this more. I would run the high HTHS Dexos2 oil as this engine is hard on oil and the Dexos2 oil should last better.

Then if I was worried about LSPI, then I would run a better quality (higher octane) fuel, as a higher octane should combat LSPI events.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Castrol GTX Ultraclean 15W40 A3/B3 + Wesfil-Cooper Z154
Re: dexos1 vs dexos2, gen1 or gen2? [Re: AVic] #4695379
03/15/18 07:10 AM
03/15/18 07:10 AM
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 14
Russia
AVic Offline OP
AVic  Offline OP
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 14
Russia
Yes, a fuel with a low octane rating - more harm for this engine.

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