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#4689504 - 03/09/18 10:44 AM Help a tire guy out!
CapriRacer Offline


Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 3372
Loc: Somewhere in the US
I have a project, but I just donít have the tools. That also means I need someone to do the labor.

I want to determine what affect tread depth has on rolling diameter. I suspect it has very little effect, but I need some data to back it up.

Hereís what I need:

1) A tire shaving machine.
2) A tire mounter
3) A wheel that fits on your car or truck.
4) A tire that can be thrown away, but fits on that wheel. It needs to have a lot of tread, then we are going to shave it so it has very little.
5) A flat tape measure. Not the kind that kinks if you bend it. The kind that you can wrap around a tire smoothly.
6) A car or truck (See #3)
7) A jack (to lift the car or truck.
8) Camera. To document the measurements.
9) A smooth driveway to measure the rollout.

Anyone willing to assist me? I promise fame and glory (or something!)


Edited by CapriRacer (03/09/18 10:47 AM)
_________________________
CapriRacer

Visit my web site: www.BarrysTireTech.com

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#4689510 - 03/09/18 10:54 AM Re: Help a tire guy out! [Re: CapriRacer]
beanoil Online   content


Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 2958
Loc: Midwest, Illinois
Sounds like you want the work done for you.
So I googled up a virtual assistant and she found this.
Circumference calculations
BTW, it's a 900. charge for me to just show up and say "yep it's broke, want it fixed?"


Edited by beanoil (03/09/18 10:56 AM)
_________________________
beanoil: Tough under heat, real dirty afterwards.

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#4689512 - 03/09/18 10:55 AM Re: Help a tire guy out! [Re: CapriRacer]
BrocLuno Offline


Registered: 09/06/15
Posts: 5528
Loc: Kalifornia Kollective
Rolling diameter has as much to do with specific loading, air pressure and rim width, as tread depth. They are all variables.

On 4x4's we use any tape measure and go from the ground to the upper rim edge (just a handy reference point). Get all four corners the same for a given desired pressure - say 32 PSI front for rocky trails.

You can just measure the standing height of a tire mounted any way you want and calc the roll-out ...

The footprint deformation is a bit tricky, but still nothing basic math won't account for.
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Formerly in marine engineering. In an earlier life I owned my own petroleum tank truck, and hauled for the majors and independent's.

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#4689522 - 03/09/18 11:09 AM Re: Help a tire guy out! [Re: CapriRacer]
JLTD Offline


Registered: 12/15/17
Posts: 693
Loc: US
Not to be a party pooper on the real-world experiment, but it seems like an awful lot of work. what is wrong with using math? Go measure an actual tire in a tire store, then whip out the circumference calculator linked earlier.

Load, inflation etc for each vehicle is a constant for that vehicle so can be discarded.
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Done discussing thick vs thin - too divisive. Will let UOAs do the talking.

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#4689598 - 03/09/18 12:48 PM Re: Help a tire guy out! [Re: CapriRacer]
novadude Offline


Registered: 01/16/03
Posts: 1469
Loc: Shippensburg, PA
I'd be interested in seeing the results of this. I'd also be interested in seeing how load and air pressure affects rolling diameter.

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#4689629 - 03/09/18 01:37 PM Re: Help a tire guy out! [Re: CapriRacer]
jjjxlr8 Offline


Registered: 09/10/08
Posts: 456
Loc: Ohio
"Effective" rolling radius is less than the "deflected" static rolling radius which is less than the undeflected free tire rolling radius.

What are you really looking for?
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#4689632 - 03/09/18 01:39 PM Re: Help a tire guy out! [Re: CapriRacer]
Nick1994 Online   content


Registered: 02/19/13
Posts: 10130
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
CapriRacer, you might want to post your location
_________________________
2015 Hyundai Sonata 2.4L 79k PU 5w30 & OEM
2000 Toyota Camry 2.2L 228k M1 AFE 0w30 & Wix
1996 Jeep Cherokee 4.0L 146k M1 HM 10w40 & Fram Ultra

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#4689690 - 03/09/18 02:48 PM Re: Help a tire guy out! [Re: CapriRacer]
NYSteve Offline


Registered: 12/26/06
Posts: 455
Loc: Killadelphia
I would think the quickest way is to find someone who needs new tires but has a fullsize spare with full tread. maybe hang out at your favorite tire shop?

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#4689696 - 03/09/18 02:55 PM Re: Help a tire guy out! [Re: NYSteve]
IndyIan Offline


Registered: 09/23/08
Posts: 9092
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: NYSteve
I would think the quickest way is to find someone who needs new tires but has a fullsize spare with full tread. maybe hang out at your favorite tire shop?

I think the size range between two of the same tires may still be too much to get any useful data?
I'd also wonder how much a tire carcass changes in diameter over a tires lifetime? That may make any data from just shaving a tire less significant as well as it may not be similar to wearing a tire out.
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07 Focus ZXW, 5spd manual, 206km M1 5W30
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#4689743 - 03/09/18 04:05 PM Re: Help a tire guy out! [Re: CapriRacer]
Traction Offline


Registered: 06/04/13
Posts: 981
Loc: iowa
Instead spending money to shave a new tire, just find a worn out one, and get a new one to match. Just doing calculations on a 265/75-16, based on diameter, it travels 2.75 inches less per revolution compared to a new one. Of course the loaded radius would have a variable effect, which is how many new late model cars are now monitoring tire pressure instead of using sensors. All cars should be that way, which just use a regular old valve stem, which is so much cheaper, and reliable. Just can't have a pressure read out, which is not required to conform to the TPMS regulations.


Edited by Traction (03/09/18 04:06 PM)
_________________________
Tire Industry Association Certified Tire Service Instructor since 2009
13 Tahoe Pursuit
97 C5 Corvette
00 BMW M Roadster
12 Camry
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#4689750 - 03/09/18 04:10 PM Re: Help a tire guy out! [Re: IndyIan]
Kira Offline


Registered: 08/19/10
Posts: 5263
Loc: Champlain/Hudson Valley
I was waiting for questions 10, 11 and 12 where the OP asks for....
10) date of birth
11) social security number
12) bank account numbers

...as if it was an internet scam.

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#4689794 - 03/09/18 04:52 PM Re: Help a tire guy out! [Re: CapriRacer]
02SE Offline


Registered: 12/30/05
Posts: 2731
Loc: The Canyons
I would suggest asking a Tire Engineer..

smile

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#4689841 - 03/09/18 05:39 PM Re: Help a tire guy out! [Re: Nick1994]
Quattro Pete Offline


Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 35890
Loc: Great Lakes
Originally Posted By: Nick1994
CapriRacer, you might want to post your location

Why? I am guessing he wants someone to just follow his instructions, regardless where that person lives.
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#4689931 - 03/09/18 07:09 PM Re: Help a tire guy out! [Re: Quattro Pete]
Nick1994 Online   content


Registered: 02/19/13
Posts: 10130
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Nick1994
CapriRacer, you might want to post your location

Why? I am guessing he wants someone to just follow his instructions, regardless where that person lives.
The way itís worded sounds to me like he wants to physically be involved. He said he needs those things.
_________________________
2015 Hyundai Sonata 2.4L 79k PU 5w30 & OEM
2000 Toyota Camry 2.2L 228k M1 AFE 0w30 & Wix
1996 Jeep Cherokee 4.0L 146k M1 HM 10w40 & Fram Ultra

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#4689976 - 03/09/18 08:10 PM Re: Help a tire guy out! [Re: CapriRacer]
George Bynum Offline


Registered: 12/18/04
Posts: 283
Loc: Greenville SC
Originally Posted By: CapriRacer
I want to determine what affect tread depth has on rolling diameter. I suspect it has very little effect, but I need some data to back it up.


Is it really revolutions per mile you are looking for? You addressed this with me somewhat 4 or 5 years ago; I'm in Greenville SC with several friends who work for the small tire company here. One felt that the steel belt controlled that with a loaded tire and that tread squirm was greater with newer tires. We never, IIRC, reached a definitive answer.

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