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Help a tire guy out! #4689504
03/09/18 11:44 AM
03/09/18 11:44 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,421
Somewhere in the US
CapriRacer Offline OP
CapriRacer  Offline OP
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,421
Somewhere in the US
I have a project, but I just donít have the tools. That also means I need someone to do the labor.

I want to determine what affect tread depth has on rolling diameter. I suspect it has very little effect, but I need some data to back it up.

Hereís what I need:

1) A tire shaving machine.
2) A tire mounter
3) A wheel that fits on your car or truck.
4) A tire that can be thrown away, but fits on that wheel. It needs to have a lot of tread, then we are going to shave it so it has very little.
5) A flat tape measure. Not the kind that kinks if you bend it. The kind that you can wrap around a tire smoothly.
6) A car or truck (See #3)
7) A jack (to lift the car or truck.
8) Camera. To document the measurements.
9) A smooth driveway to measure the rollout.

Anyone willing to assist me? I promise fame and glory (or something!)

Last edited by CapriRacer; 03/09/18 11:47 AM.

CapriRacer

Visit my web site: www.BarrysTireTech.com
Re: Help a tire guy out! [Re: CapriRacer] #4689510
03/09/18 11:54 AM
03/09/18 11:54 AM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,075
Midwest, Illinois
beanoil Offline
beanoil  Offline
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,075
Midwest, Illinois
Sounds like you want the work done for you.
So I googled up a virtual assistant and she found this.
Circumference calculations
BTW, it's a 900. charge for me to just show up and say "yep it's broke, want it fixed?"

Last edited by beanoil; 03/09/18 11:56 AM.

beanoil: Tough under heat, real dirty afterwards.
Re: Help a tire guy out! [Re: CapriRacer] #4689512
03/09/18 11:55 AM
03/09/18 11:55 AM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 5,839
Kalifornia Kollective
BrocLuno Offline
BrocLuno  Offline
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 5,839
Kalifornia Kollective
Rolling diameter has as much to do with specific loading, air pressure and rim width, as tread depth. They are all variables.

On 4x4's we use any tape measure and go from the ground to the upper rim edge (just a handy reference point). Get all four corners the same for a given desired pressure - say 32 PSI front for rocky trails.

You can just measure the standing height of a tire mounted any way you want and calc the roll-out ...

The footprint deformation is a bit tricky, but still nothing basic math won't account for.


Formerly in marine engineering. In an earlier life I owned my own petroleum tank truck, and hauled for the majors and independent's.
Re: Help a tire guy out! [Re: CapriRacer] #4689522
03/09/18 12:09 PM
03/09/18 12:09 PM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 1,031
US
JLTD Offline
JLTD  Offline
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 1,031
US
Not to be a party pooper on the real-world experiment, but it seems like an awful lot of work. what is wrong with using math? Go measure an actual tire in a tire store, then whip out the circumference calculator linked earlier.

Load, inflation etc for each vehicle is a constant for that vehicle so can be discarded.


I'm a thickie; but a 20 has its place.

I use AMSOIL‚ĄĘ

Hers: 2008 Jeep Liberty 138k, SS 5w30/Amsoil

His: 2015 4Runner 41k, OE 5w20/Wix

Re: Help a tire guy out! [Re: CapriRacer] #4689598
03/09/18 01:48 PM
03/09/18 01:48 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,504
Shippensburg, PA
novadude Offline
novadude  Offline
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,504
Shippensburg, PA
I'd be interested in seeing the results of this. I'd also be interested in seeing how load and air pressure affects rolling diameter.

Re: Help a tire guy out! [Re: CapriRacer] #4689629
03/09/18 02:37 PM
03/09/18 02:37 PM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 466
Ohio
jjjxlr8 Offline
jjjxlr8  Offline
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 466
Ohio
"Effective" rolling radius is less than the "deflected" static rolling radius which is less than the undeflected free tire rolling radius.

What are you really looking for?


1993 Toyota MR2 Turbo
2008 Mazdaspeed3
2014 Toyota Highlander XLE
Re: Help a tire guy out! [Re: CapriRacer] #4689632
03/09/18 02:39 PM
03/09/18 02:39 PM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 10,681
Phoenix, AZ
Nick1994 Online content
Nick1994  Online Content
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 10,681
Phoenix, AZ
CapriRacer, you might want to post your location


2015 Hyundai Sonata 2.4L 84k Mobil 1 AFE 0w30 & OEM
2000 Toyota Camry 2.2L 230k Valvoline 5w30 & Fram Ultra
1996 Jeep Cherokee 4.0L 147k Mobil 1 HM 10w40 & Fram Ultra
Re: Help a tire guy out! [Re: CapriRacer] #4689690
03/09/18 03:48 PM
03/09/18 03:48 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 468
Killadelphia
NYSteve Offline
NYSteve  Offline
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 468
Killadelphia
I would think the quickest way is to find someone who needs new tires but has a fullsize spare with full tread. maybe hang out at your favorite tire shop?

Re: Help a tire guy out! [Re: NYSteve] #4689696
03/09/18 03:55 PM
03/09/18 03:55 PM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,188
Ontario, Canada
IndyIan Offline
IndyIan  Offline
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,188
Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: NYSteve
I would think the quickest way is to find someone who needs new tires but has a fullsize spare with full tread. maybe hang out at your favorite tire shop?

I think the size range between two of the same tires may still be too much to get any useful data?
I'd also wonder how much a tire carcass changes in diameter over a tires lifetime? That may make any data from just shaving a tire less significant as well as it may not be similar to wearing a tire out.


07 Focus ZXW, 5spd manual, 210km M1 5W30
18 Outback 2.5 CVT 10km 0W20 "bulk subaru" whatever that is
Re: Help a tire guy out! [Re: CapriRacer] #4689743
03/09/18 05:05 PM
03/09/18 05:05 PM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,034
iowa
Traction Offline
Traction  Offline
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,034
iowa
Instead spending money to shave a new tire, just find a worn out one, and get a new one to match. Just doing calculations on a 265/75-16, based on diameter, it travels 2.75 inches less per revolution compared to a new one. Of course the loaded radius would have a variable effect, which is how many new late model cars are now monitoring tire pressure instead of using sensors. All cars should be that way, which just use a regular old valve stem, which is so much cheaper, and reliable. Just can't have a pressure read out, which is not required to conform to the TPMS regulations.

Last edited by Traction; 03/09/18 05:06 PM.

Certified Tire Service Instructor since 2009
50 Chevy Fire Truck
13 Tahoe Pursuit
97 C5 Corvette
00 BMW M Roadster
02 Camry
12 Camry
81 Camaro
55 Chevy C4
Re: Help a tire guy out! [Re: IndyIan] #4689750
03/09/18 05:10 PM
03/09/18 05:10 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 5,648
Champlain/Hudson Valley
Kira Offline
Kira  Offline
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 5,648
Champlain/Hudson Valley
I was waiting for questions 10, 11 and 12 where the OP asks for....
10) date of birth
11) social security number
12) bank account numbers

...as if it was an internet scam.

Re: Help a tire guy out! [Re: CapriRacer] #4689794
03/09/18 05:52 PM
03/09/18 05:52 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,865
The Canyons
02SE Offline
02SE  Offline
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,865
The Canyons
I would suggest asking a Tire Engineer..

smile

Re: Help a tire guy out! [Re: Nick1994] #4689841
03/09/18 06:39 PM
03/09/18 06:39 PM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 36,279
Great Lakes
Quattro Pete Offline
Quattro Pete  Offline
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 36,279
Great Lakes
Originally Posted By: Nick1994
CapriRacer, you might want to post your location

Why? I am guessing he wants someone to just follow his instructions, regardless where that person lives.


'02 530i (Edge 0W-40)
'15 Q5 3.0T (Edge 5W-40)
'18 Charger SRT (FF)
Re: Help a tire guy out! [Re: Quattro Pete] #4689931
03/09/18 08:09 PM
03/09/18 08:09 PM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 10,681
Phoenix, AZ
Nick1994 Online content
Nick1994  Online Content
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 10,681
Phoenix, AZ
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Nick1994
CapriRacer, you might want to post your location

Why? I am guessing he wants someone to just follow his instructions, regardless where that person lives.
The way itís worded sounds to me like he wants to physically be involved. He said he needs those things.


2015 Hyundai Sonata 2.4L 84k Mobil 1 AFE 0w30 & OEM
2000 Toyota Camry 2.2L 230k Valvoline 5w30 & Fram Ultra
1996 Jeep Cherokee 4.0L 147k Mobil 1 HM 10w40 & Fram Ultra
Re: Help a tire guy out! [Re: CapriRacer] #4689976
03/09/18 09:10 PM
03/09/18 09:10 PM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 297
Greenville SC
George Bynum Offline
George Bynum  Offline
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 297
Greenville SC
Originally Posted By: CapriRacer
I want to determine what affect tread depth has on rolling diameter. I suspect it has very little effect, but I need some data to back it up.


Is it really revolutions per mile you are looking for? You addressed this with me somewhat 4 or 5 years ago; I'm in Greenville SC with several friends who work for the small tire company here. One felt that the steel belt controlled that with a loaded tire and that tread squirm was greater with newer tires. We never, IIRC, reached a definitive answer.

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