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First Post - First real piston soak #4688162
03/07/18 11:24 PM
03/07/18 11:24 PM
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 14
Michigan
RapidCAD Offline OP
RapidCAD  Offline OP
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 14
Michigan
Need advise on a piston soak

Hi all, I'm new here - first post. I need to ask about recommendations for a piston soak for my 1991 Mercury Capri XR2 Turbo, 1.6l DOHC Intercooled.
A little background:
I've had It for abut 4 years and have run it from right at 100k to about 148k now. It started using oil a few years back, didn't use more than most other cars I'd had, maybe 1qt/1800, but it began using about 1qt/1000 and I could see clouds when I accelerated hard- thick blue ones. I investigated and found out it was a bad turbo shaft and if I kept my foot out of it, the oil usage was not as bad, 1qt/1200, but if I floored it, I figured out it lost about a cup every time I did so, so I babied it for about 6 months until I could find the parts to replace the turbo.
With the new turbo on, I was still using oil more than I used to, just not so visibly (faint smoke on full throttle). I also had some nasty oil leaks and ended up pulling the head and sending it out for valve stem seals and a decking. I put ARP head studs and a Cometic head gasket on it along with all new seals last summer. That stopped the leaks, but the burning continued, but not thru the turbo and not thick blue.

Well, the oil consumption has steadily gotten worse. Back when I had the head off I did my own soak, not even knowing about what to call it. I just used sea-foam on the piston tops and tried to let it soak past the rings for a weekend, working the pistons up and down some.
IDK if it helped any, she runs terrific but still uses oil - now at a steady qt/500. I still see no smoke at startup, the induction piping is clean (not a turbo seal) and I see that it all comes through the PVC hose (blow-by). I have the best PVC valve recommended for it and have tried others, but none stop the flow. I put a catch-can on the line and I trap about a cup in 500 miles.

Oil history: After I got it I started using Mobil Super Synthetic, mostly 5W30 because of our cold climate in Michigan. Eventually, one mechanic I talked to convinced me to use a semi-synthetic high-milage oil like Valvoline sells which I am currently running (5W30 in winter, 10W40 in summer).

I started thinking how I might fix this and decided to try putting sea-foam in the crankcase 300 mi before a change. This didn't seem to help so for one more attempt I just put it in again and it is time to change it. That's when I came across all the info here on this site and started thinking about trying better solvents. I picked up some B-12 Berrymans, and just received a quart of Kreen I ordered last week. The eBay seller who sold me AC Delco Top Engine cleaner cancelled my order on me after receiving my payment (thankfully refunding me but costing me time getting started on this). I also read about some of you using Break-Free CLP gun cleaner so I received a shipment of that as well.

Should I order the AC Delco Top Engine cleaner again from elsewhere?

Here are my numbers...
Dry (cold too) CYL 1 (150) CYL 2 (149) CYL 3 (133) CYL 4 (155)
Wet (cold too) CYL 1 (172) CYL 2 (180) CYL 3 (170) CYL 4 (180)

She never smokes when starting, only when the RPM is in the 4000-6500 range and that is not much (light maybe blue, but faint). The other day she started on 3 cylinders and this rarely happens (might be a bad plug wire) and when it does it goes away in a minute. I was in a hurry to pull out of work and on 3 cylinders she smoked like a house on fire, but when I shut her off for a moment and restarted, she was back to normal and clear on 4 cylinders. That dosen't happen all that often, I should do a tune up though. She has about 30K on NGK G-Power Irridums, wires cap and rotor.

What kind of soak should I do? I was going to follow Trav's method, but I have the Break-Free, Kreen and BerryMans on hand, and the car currently has 3000mi oil in it (one Qt down - only a 3.4 quart capacity to start with so 2.4 in it and part of that is 180ml of Sea-Foam). I need to get started on this so any recommendation would be greatly appreciated...

Ron

Re: First Post - First real piston soak [Re: RapidCAD] #4688171
03/07/18 11:37 PM
03/07/18 11:37 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,400
Georgia
AVB Offline
AVB  Offline
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,400
Georgia
I have had good luck with Kreen, I like to fill the cylinders then rock the crankshaft back and forth. I think that it helps to clean the rings better by making them change directions instead of just turning the engine in one direction.

Re: First Post - First real piston soak [Re: RapidCAD] #4688174
03/07/18 11:40 PM
03/07/18 11:40 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,951
5600 feet elevation, Arizona
double vanos Offline
double vanos  Offline
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,951
5600 feet elevation, Arizona
welcome to the asylum! We’ve been expecting you! Nice car BTW.


Sabine Schmitz is the Queen of the 'Ring; Svetlana Kapanina is the Queen of the SKIES...
Re: First Post - First real piston soak [Re: RapidCAD] #4688175
03/07/18 11:40 PM
03/07/18 11:40 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 5,387
Fort Lauderdale, FL
DoubleWasp Offline
DoubleWasp  Offline
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 5,387
Fort Lauderdale, FL
I'd honestly go for the CLP or Kreen. Doing what you are wanting to do is exactly what the CLP was engineered to do. I've seen CLP remove some really nasty, really hard, really caked on garbage.


07 Lincoln Navigator M1 0w-40/FU
68 Charger R/T / Supercharged 440 VR1/DBL7349
07 Ram 3500 4x4 / Cummins 6.7 /DBL7349
17 Maserati GranTurismo Cabrio
Re: First Post - First real piston soak [Re: RapidCAD] #4688182
03/07/18 11:46 PM
03/07/18 11:46 PM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,099
US-WA
Dyusik Offline
Dyusik  Offline
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,099
US-WA
I soaked my Harley pistons with what I had on hand: M1, ATF, and gasoline. It worked well, no longer rolling coal, and the consumption is down to pretty much nothing.


95 Cherokee 190K DELO 10W30, XG8
07 IS250 100K Napa 10w30, FULL
04 YZF-R1 19K DELO 15w40, XG7317
99 HD XL1200S 20K VR1 20w50, NG1515
14 RX450h 33k PP MIX, NG7047
Re: First Post - First real piston soak [Re: RapidCAD] #4688191
03/07/18 11:55 PM
03/07/18 11:55 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,262
Waco, TX
Linctex Offline
Linctex  Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,262
Waco, TX
It sounds like you are on the right track!

If none of these help....... it may be time for new rings. shrug


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: First Post - First real piston soak [Re: RapidCAD] #4688195
03/08/18 12:04 AM
03/08/18 12:04 AM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,400
Georgia
AVB Offline
AVB  Offline
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,400
Georgia
I have never tried CLP in a engine, but I do use Hoppes 7 to clean throttle bodies. It would probably work for a piston soak.

Re: First Post - First real piston soak [Re: RapidCAD] #4688217
03/08/18 12:25 AM
03/08/18 12:25 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 7,532
Marshfield , MA
andyd Offline
andyd  Offline
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 7,532
Marshfield , MA
Have you done a compression test? Were the wet numbers significantly higher? When you had the head off what did the cylinders look like? Could you see cross hatching, was there any ridge at the top?
I'm getting the picture of a small fun car to drive. Early turbo that liked being wound up. You bought a 23 yr old sporty car with a 100k of fun on it. Maybe the rings are coked in their grooves, but that supposes there are any rings left. It is only 4 plugs, do before and after compression tests. That will be the easiest way to tell if the soaks worked. What is the warm oil pressure at 3K RPM? Also Capris are very scarce up here where the roads are white with salt. And I know a guy who is deep into M3s who lamented his hotrod Capri that rusted to dust in Toronto. Meantime quick and dirty would be stepping up to 10w30 or even 10w40. I started my 350Kmile 528e full of dino 10w40 at 17 below. Should you not feel comfy with this, add a pint of MMO to thin out the oil and give it some gentle solvent cleaning. No experience with Kreen, reputed to be good. B 12 Chemtool is enamel thinner, but great in lawnmower carbs. Not impressed with Sea Foam. 10$ worth of smoke. Just my opinions, no data. Whatever you try,read the directions on the bottle first.


'16 Camry LE STP synth 0w20 and STP filter. the Fridge

1994 Ranger ,the Rat, 5w30 dino, STP filter

'16 Camry SE, Valvoline HM 0w20 and OEM filter
Thick oil is better grin2
Re: First Post - First real piston soak [Re: RapidCAD] #4688231
03/08/18 12:46 AM
03/08/18 12:46 AM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 5,868
Kalifornia Kollective
BrocLuno Offline
BrocLuno  Offline
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 5,868
Kalifornia Kollective
So out here, we can't get KREEN any longer ... It's some political B... about cancer causing chemicals, etc. Since non-licensed folks used it, the State said no more frown

In lieu of KREEN, I use a combo of Break-Free and BG109. The Break-Free goes in overnight (or over weekend) and just sits. The end gaps will let it by to fill the whole ring pack. Then fire it up and drive about the block, change oil and filter and good to go.

The BG109 goes in (full can) somewhere between 500 and 100 miles before an oil change. Have had very good luck with this approach smile

The next suggestion is to change the oil chemistry to break up the deposits. I'd run a change on Redline, then Pennz Ultra, then go back to semi-syn.

All this will do what it can. But you may just need a ring job ...


Formerly in marine engineering. In an earlier life I owned my own petroleum tank truck, and hauled for the majors and independent's.
Re: First Post - First real piston soak [Re: RapidCAD] #4688286
03/08/18 04:42 AM
03/08/18 04:42 AM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 2,350
SE British Columbia, Canada
Snagglefoot Offline
Snagglefoot  Offline
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 2,350
SE British Columbia, Canada
Try the solvents but I think your oil control rings are simply worn out or are coked. Consider the 148,000 miles with revs running at 4000-6000 rpm vs a V-8 that might not see 4000 rpm at all. Who knows what oil and OCI’s where used in the first 100,000 miles. Oil quality today is better than in 1991,

I rebuilt a Honda 1200 cc car engine and the ring lands were filled with coked oil residue. I had to use a chunk of ring to leterally bust out chunks of the residue. Rebuilding the engine might be a fun and rewarding project.


If you want the job done right......do it yourself.
Re: First Post - First real piston soak [Re: RapidCAD] #4688301
03/08/18 05:45 AM
03/08/18 05:45 AM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,632
Taiwan
Ducked Offline
Ducked  Offline
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,632
Taiwan
Some people use brake fluid. If I had reason to believe I had stuck rings, that's what I would use, (followed by water inspiration into the running engine at high revs and then an oil change), because I have some, and I've tried it as a carb cleaner in which role it seems to work quite well.

I currently have the high rev water inspiration underway as a general decoke but without the piston soak. Car seems to have stopped running-on on switchoff, but I need to distill some more water before I can step up the treatment intensity.

Re: First Post - First real piston soak [Re: RapidCAD] #4688339
03/08/18 06:53 AM
03/08/18 06:53 AM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 593
Margate England
Claud Offline
Claud  Offline
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 593
Margate England
At nearly 150k miles maybe the bores and pistons are just worn. If that is the case no additives are going to help. Sounds like you have excessive blow-by, a classic symptom of worn pistons and bores.
How much is the car worth to you?, I dare say the work fixing the engine is more than the market value of the car, but what would it cost to buy another small, fun to drive car?.

Claud.

Re: First Post - First real piston soak [Re: RapidCAD] #4688421
03/08/18 08:56 AM
03/08/18 08:56 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,945
Michigan
ZZman Offline
ZZman  Offline
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,945
Michigan
You might consider this to help with the compression issues and oil burning.
https://www.restoreusa.com/index.php


2003 Mercury Grand Marquis. Rotella T6 Multi-Vehicle oil
2008 Sebring Hardtop convertible. Rotella T6 Multi-Vehicle oil
2006 Kawasaki Vulcan 900 LT. Amsoil Metric 10w-40
Re: First Post - First real piston soak [Re: RapidCAD] #4688449
03/08/18 09:21 AM
03/08/18 09:21 AM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 22,162
Colorado Springs
Drew99GT Offline
Drew99GT  Offline
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 22,162
Colorado Springs
I've tried everything for piston soaks, except Kreen, and the clear winner on my oil consuming Corolla is Berryman B12. The stuff is STRONG. I actually had to pour oil in the cylinders to get it to start afterwards because I guess there was no oil film to seal the cylinders.

The results have been night and day. Hardly any more consumption and the pinging is now gone.

Previously, I've tried MMO, Seafoam, and Gumout Multi. They somewhat work, bu nothing like Berrymans.

Re: First Post - First real piston soak [Re: RapidCAD] #4688485
03/08/18 10:08 AM
03/08/18 10:08 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 7,438
Jupiter, Florida
Cujet Offline
Cujet  Offline
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 7,438
Jupiter, Florida
You likely have worn rings. But just to make sure, did you clean out the intercooler or intake pipes after the turbo change. Lots of oil can reside in an intercooler.

I'd choose M1, 15W-50, and simply let your engine warm up.


People who count on their fingers should maintain a discreet silence.
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