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What about a 50% treatment rate? #4687467
03/07/18 12:15 PM
03/07/18 12:15 PM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 21,189
Oakville, Ontario
Patman Offline OP
Patman  Offline OP
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 21,189
Oakville, Ontario
If one bottle of your favorite PEA based fuel system cleaner gives you a 100% treatment rate based on your fuel tank size, would it be more effective, less effective, or roughly the same if you ran a half bottle in each of two subsequent tankfuls instead? So you would be at 50% strength but for double the amount of mileage too.


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Re: What about a 50% treatment rate? [Re: Patman] #4687475
03/07/18 12:21 PM
03/07/18 12:21 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 30,977
NY
demarpaint Offline
demarpaint  Offline
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 30,977
NY
I think you need the higher concentration rate to get the best results. I could see doing a half dose on the second tank, after a full dose, for a one two punch.


God Bless Our Troops

Re: What about a 50% treatment rate? [Re: demarpaint] #4687485
03/07/18 12:27 PM
03/07/18 12:27 PM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 21,189
Oakville, Ontario
Patman Offline OP
Patman  Offline OP
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 21,189
Oakville, Ontario
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
I think you need the higher concentration rate to get the best results. I could see doing a half dose on the second tank, after a full dose, for a one two punch.


Here is where I'm at right now with my Civic, I added one full bottle of Gumout Regane Complete, but it says to add it to up to 21 gallons of fuel. My Civic has a small 13.2 gallon tank, so with one bottle that meant I was at roughly 160% strength. So after I drove for a bit I filled it up again and added 4.5 gallons. I then calculated my dosage was still at 120% strength. I figured that I would fill up again at the half way mark and then I'd be at 60% strength for a full tankful, but after shocking it with much stronger doses for a few hundred miles first. I've got a few other PEA based products that I've purchased but I figured for them I'd run at lower strength over a longer period of time.

Re: What about a 50% treatment rate? [Re: Patman] #4687492
03/07/18 12:36 PM
03/07/18 12:36 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 5,940
Champlain/Hudson Valley
Kira Offline
Kira  Offline
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 5,940
Champlain/Hudson Valley
A) No data = no data
B) I'm OK with the idea of overdosing with the whole bottle then "watering it down" to full strength. I'd skip engineering the 60% finale. If it worked out that way for whatever logistical reason, OK.
C) The last sentence regarding running your stash at lower strength seems odd. Why do that? Just run 'em as directed.

OVER-THINKING ALERT IN EFFECT

Re: What about a 50% treatment rate? [Re: Kira] #4687501
03/07/18 12:48 PM
03/07/18 12:48 PM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 21,189
Oakville, Ontario
Patman Offline OP
Patman  Offline OP
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 21,189
Oakville, Ontario
Originally Posted By: Kira

C) The last sentence regarding running your stash at lower strength seems odd. Why do that? Just run 'em as directed.

OVER-THINKING ALERT IN EFFECT


Perhaps, but that's what we do on here, we like to challenge the norm and think outside of the box.

My idea of running the rest of the stash at lower doses is to spread out the cleaning over a longer period of time, if in fact that's more effective. And if the engine is already clean enough, that treat rate would help keep it clean.

Here is my thought, with fuel like Chevron with Techron, they say that it takes 4500 miles of using it to clean your engine. I'm assuming this is because it contains a much lower dose of Techron than you get in a single bottle of Techron from the parts store. So Chevron is going with the lower amount/longer period of time method.

Re: What about a 50% treatment rate? [Re: Patman] #4687521
03/07/18 01:09 PM
03/07/18 01:09 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 6,133
Michigan
ZZman Offline
ZZman  Offline
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 6,133
Michigan
I would say testing by the manufacturer figured out the best rate of application.


2003 Mercury Grand Marquis. PP HM 5w-30 and Fram Ultra
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Re: What about a 50% treatment rate? [Re: ZZman] #4687524
03/07/18 01:11 PM
03/07/18 01:11 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 10,968
OH
SatinSilver Offline
SatinSilver  Offline
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 10,968
OH
Originally Posted By: ZZman
I would say testing by the manufacturer figured out the best rate of application.


+1, he could have used half the bottle and filled the tank 3/4 of the way up. Then repeat after the tank is nearly empty for a second dose. No need to re-invent the wheel here.

Re: What about a 50% treatment rate? [Re: Patman] #4687526
03/07/18 01:13 PM
03/07/18 01:13 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 5,940
Champlain/Hudson Valley
Kira Offline
Kira  Offline
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 5,940
Champlain/Hudson Valley
I'm actually with you on this. And I do agree with "our bent" here on BITOG....good assessment.

But the over-thinking alert is still in effect. I do a big percentage of my mileage on the highway so I figure a strong dose of Techron Concentrate towards the end of Winter is all I need do.

What we need to do is buy a scope with a flex head and peer at our injector tips during these exercises.

Re: What about a 50% treatment rate? [Re: ZZman] #4687533
03/07/18 01:17 PM
03/07/18 01:17 PM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 21,189
Oakville, Ontario
Patman Offline OP
Patman  Offline OP
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 21,189
Oakville, Ontario
Originally Posted By: ZZman
I would say testing by the manufacturer figured out the best rate of application.


Did they? Or did they just figure out the easier way to do it? It's a lot easier to tell someone to just dump one full bottle of something into a tank, but perhaps smaller doses over longer periods is the best way to go but most consumers won't go for this method.

Re: What about a 50% treatment rate? [Re: Patman] #4687546
03/07/18 01:27 PM
03/07/18 01:27 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 5,940
Champlain/Hudson Valley
Kira Offline
Kira  Offline
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 5,940
Champlain/Hudson Valley
Manufacturers have to establish a dosage in the event the product catches on and "economy sized" jugs become available.

Re: What about a 50% treatment rate? [Re: Patman] #4687554
03/07/18 01:40 PM
03/07/18 01:40 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,387
Chicago,IL,USA
pandus13 Offline
pandus13  Offline
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,387
Chicago,IL,USA
Originally Posted By: Patman
Originally Posted By: Kira

C) The last sentence regarding running your stash at lower strength seems odd. Why do that? Just run 'em as directed.

OVER-THINKING ALERT IN EFFECT


Perhaps, but that's what we do on here, we like to challenge the norm and think outside of the box.

My idea of running the rest of the stash at lower doses is to spread out the cleaning over a longer period of time, if in fact that's more effective. And if the engine is already clean enough, that treat rate would help keep it clean.

Here is my thought, with fuel like Chevron with Techron, they say that it takes 4500 miles of using it to clean your engine. I'm assuming this is because it contains a much lower dose of Techron than you get in a single bottle of Techron from the parts store. So Chevron is going with the lower amount/longer period of time method.


Does Chevron is top-tier around your place?

That means more additives also (OVER-THINKING ALERT IN EFFECT 2)


16 Golf SportWagen
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Re: What about a 50% treatment rate? [Re: Patman] #4687565
03/07/18 01:45 PM
03/07/18 01:45 PM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 21,189
Oakville, Ontario
Patman Offline OP
Patman  Offline OP
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 21,189
Oakville, Ontario
We don't have Chevron in Canada

Re: What about a 50% treatment rate? [Re: Patman] #4687581
03/07/18 01:57 PM
03/07/18 01:57 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,407
CA
raytseng Offline
raytseng  Offline
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,407
CA
I think that the shock dose has no effect but its good at selling bottles and selling a feeling.

There's only so much you can do for the milliseconds the product is on the surface and the rest is just flowed over the surface and wasted.
Low levels for more time would be better. I remember in chemistry class it was the same. more volume and more time of solvents better than higher concentration.

In redline si1 paper their test results chart using 1 bottle 100gallons and 3000 miles to get their improvements. I know a lot of bottles also have tests saying 1 tank cleanup, but I believe if you have the time slow and low is better and so did redline in their testing procedure.
Consider the amount of time it took to accumulate the deposit, take the same amount of time to tske it off.

Re: What about a 50% treatment rate? [Re: Patman] #4687586
03/07/18 02:01 PM
03/07/18 02:01 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 20,574
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Trav Offline
Trav  Offline
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 20,574
MA, Mittelfranken.de
When GM had with ethanol preventing proper operation of the fuel level gauge sender in the tank, they recommended a PEA cleaner and it was found that 2 bottles in a full tank worked much faster and better than 2 dosed at separate intervals.

My VW also responded to this rate, it sat for a long time and the sender "stalled", it took full tank and a week but it came back to life and has remained so 3 yrs later.
No scientific data just an observation.


ASE L1, Master. Deutsch Meisterbrief.
Re: What about a 50% treatment rate? [Re: Patman] #4687623
03/07/18 02:27 PM
03/07/18 02:27 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 30,977
NY
demarpaint Offline
demarpaint  Offline
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 30,977
NY
Originally Posted By: Patman
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
I think you need the higher concentration rate to get the best results. I could see doing a half dose on the second tank, after a full dose, for a one two punch.


Here is where I'm at right now with my Civic, I added one full bottle of Gumout Regane Complete, but it says to add it to up to 21 gallons of fuel. My Civic has a small 13.2 gallon tank, so with one bottle that meant I was at roughly 160% strength. So after I drove for a bit I filled it up again and added 4.5 gallons. I then calculated my dosage was still at 120% strength. I figured that I would fill up again at the half way mark and then I'd be at 60% strength for a full tankful, but after shocking it with much stronger doses for a few hundred miles first. I've got a few other PEA based products that I've purchased but I figured for them I'd run at lower strength over a longer period of time.


I see where you're coming from, and this is Bitog. I guess specifying an ounce/gallon dose would be asking a lot from the general public and might even complicate things, and lower sales. I have never owned a vehicle with a Civic sized gas tank so I toss in bottle. Now with Techron coming in quart bottles I pay a little more attention to it. Look it it this way it: should work better in your Civic than it will in my van, and one bottle, with a half bottle chaser on the second tank of fuel might do the trick. Where as I might need two bottles over two tank fulls, or a two bottle shock treatment. lol Nothing is ever easy if we start analyzing things, and the more people you ask the more confused you might get.

After 60 K miles on my Liberty I decided to try a bottle of Berryman's B12 in one tank, run it down to 1/8th of a tank, and follow it up with a bottle of Techron at the next fill up. I completed this about 500 miles before changing my oil. No difference to report. But after speaking with Trav I'm pretty confident in the process, and happy there was no change that I could notice.


God Bless Our Troops

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