Toyota Red vs Pink

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Ok, I know you can top off pink with red but you can't top off red with pink. Red is concentrated and pink is 50:50. Pink is not just red diluted with distilled water. I think Toyota switched over to the pink around 2002.

My feeling is that the red is better than the pink and that the pink was formulated to satisfy some kind of EPA requirement or for Toyota to make more money. Note, I said "my feeling." I have read on Toyota forums where some are switching from the pink to the red in their newer models. 2 Toyota mechanics said that's what they do. They say the red is the bomb.

Does anyone know if I could be prolonging the life of my car's coolant system by switching from pink to red? Does anyone know the chemical makeup difference between the Toyota Red and Toyota Pink other than one is concentrated and one is diluted?
 
Originally Posted By: Reddy45
Pink is only sold as ready to use right? (50:50 mix)
Correct. Same as the other majority OEM Asian PHOATS, eg. Honda Type2, Nissan Long Life blue and others. One aftermarket exception is Pep Boys OEM Brand Concentrate available in four tints.

Unlike the Toyota Red which is only recommended for 2years/~30k miles, the SLL pink is ~5 years/50k miles interval on subsequent to factory service. That's similar to the other current OEM Asian AFs.

As for topic, as search of bitog would indicate been discussed at length several times. Toyota says the pink is backward compatible with the red however to get the longer service interval a complete exchange should be done. I'm not much on feelings and hearsay, seen no evidence Red better for radiator/system life. Otoh, if one just prefers to use the shorter service interval red, use it. These parts it's pricey now.

Personally been using Peak Global Lifetime concentrate in an 01 Tacoma with original radiator for several years, working fine.
 
Mods, please close and remove this post. I want to repost with a more clear question.
 
Originally Posted By: Gebo


Does anyone know if I could be prolonging the life of my car's coolant system by switching from pink to red? Does anyone know the chemical makeup difference between the Toyota Red and Toyota Pink other than one is concentrated and one is diluted?


I am not fan of pink coolants...since I can read that Toyotas have WP leak because of them (topic from yesterday here on BITOG)...plus vw had recalls in 90's because of head gasket leaks because of pink G12...

So to answer your question...I am switching my Toyota to blue/green G11 in Spring...and I am planning to change it on every 2-3yrs...1kz-te engine has very sensitive cooling system though.(the end result could be that you have cracked engine head)

And be adviced (at least here in EU) you can have 4different pink antifreezes... G12 G12+ G12++ and G13... And some of them can not be mixed...
 
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Plus that words as "longlife" "sealed for life"or "lifefill" doesnt exist in my vocabulary
smile.gif
 
I thought the 'weep hole' anecdote(s) might get posted as regards Toyota SLL Pink use so saved this previously posted information courtesy of member King Cake on the topic. This is what Toyota has to say on the matter.

full-72003-2062-toyota.png
 
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The chemistry is different - SLLC pink uses sebacate as the organic acid. Zerex's Asian formula uses benzoate as the organic acid and it does meet Toyota's pHOAT requirements.

I'm now thinking the red LLC formula doesn't have an organic acid - just phosphate, molybdate, nitrate and an azole for solder protection. I'll have to dig through Google Patents for CCI to see if there was a patent filed. I was under the thought LLC red has benzoate as the organic acid but the Japanese back in the 1980s when Toyota first used a non-silicated coolant didn't jump on the hybrid OAT bandwagon like Germans did with BASF's Glysantin formulas. Except G-05, G-48 and now G-40 are SiHOAT formulas using benzoate or 2-EHA as the organic acid.

Toyota didn't add the below line in the owner's manual until 2004 with the 2nd gen Prius and the refreshed LS430 before it was made standard on all their production lines:

Quote:

"Toyota Super Long Life Coolant” or similar high quality ethylene glycol based non-silicate, nonamine, non-nitrite and non-borate coolant with long-life hybrid organic acid technology
 
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Originally Posted By: nthach
The chemistry is different - SLLC pink uses sebacate as the organic acid. Zerex's Asian formula uses benzoate as the organic acid and it does meet Toyota's pHOAT requirements.

I'm now thinking the red LLC formula doesn't have an organic acid - just phosphate, molybdate, nitrate and an azole for solder protection. I'll have to dig through Google Patents for CCI to see if there was a patent filed. I was under the thought LLC red has benzoate as the organic acid but the Japanese back in the 1980s when Toyota first used a non-silicated coolant didn't jump on the hybrid OAT bandwagon like Germans did with BASF's Glysantin formulas. Except G-05, G-48 and now G-40 are SiHOAT formulas using benzoate or 2-EHA as the organic acid.

Toyota didn't add the below line in the owner's manual until 2004 with the 2nd gen Prius and the refreshed LS430 before it was made standard on all their production lines:

Quote:

"Toyota Super Long Life Coolant” or similar high quality ethylene glycol based non-silicate, nonamine, non-nitrite and non-borate coolant with long-life hybrid organic acid technology


nthach,

This is the type of information I'm looking for. With your knowledge base, did Toyota change internal engine metals in 2002? In other words, why do you think they went from Red to Pink? What is in the post 2002 Toyota engines need the organic acids? Or do they? I'm merely trying to learn...
 
Originally Posted By: Kamele0N
@nthach...

http://www.glysantin.de/en/products.html

If you click @more under G48(green/blue G11) and G30 (red/pinky G12+?)... You will see that they are the only 2 with Toyota spec.

Toyota hasn't approved those at all - and G30/G40/G48 aren't at all phosphated HOAT coolants.

However, if you look at the info sheet for Zerex Asian Formula or the label, there's a patent that's referenced. BASF holds that patent and internally at Valvoline/BASF, it's known as G69-91/G70.

http://www.luisa.com.gt/sites/default/files/zerex_asian_vehicle.pdf
https://patents.google.com/patent/US5454967
 
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Originally Posted By: Gebo
Originally Posted By: nthach
The chemistry is different - SLLC pink uses sebacate as the organic acid. Zerex's Asian formula uses benzoate as the organic acid and it does meet Toyota's pHOAT requirements.

I'm now thinking the red LLC formula doesn't have an organic acid - just phosphate, molybdate, nitrate and an azole for solder protection. I'll have to dig through Google Patents for CCI to see if there was a patent filed. I was under the thought LLC red has benzoate as the organic acid but the Japanese back in the 1980s when Toyota first used a non-silicated coolant didn't jump on the hybrid OAT bandwagon like Germans did with BASF's Glysantin formulas. Except G-05, G-48 and now G-40 are SiHOAT formulas using benzoate or 2-EHA as the organic acid.

Toyota didn't add the below line in the owner's manual until 2004 with the 2nd gen Prius and the refreshed LS430 before it was made standard on all their production lines:

Quote:

"Toyota Super Long Life Coolant” or similar high quality ethylene glycol based non-silicate, nonamine, non-nitrite and non-borate coolant with long-life hybrid organic acid technology


nthach,

This is the type of information I'm looking for. With your knowledge base, did Toyota change internal engine metals in 2002? In other words, why do you think they went from Red to Pink? What is in the post 2002 Toyota engines need the organic acids? Or do they? I'm merely trying to learn...

Highly doubt Toyota switched the core engine metals - but they did phase out lead solder in the mid-2000s, they started to use all aluminum radiators and heater cores. Someone here said Dex-Cool doesn't play nice with lead solder and while Toyota did say the pink SLLC can be used to service older cars I did notice my hoses turning white and some radiator seepage with the pink stuff on a 1991 Lexus LS400. While it was the first Toyota product to use a plastic tank radiator, the radiator core and heater core were still lead soldered brass.

If you think about it, the longer life of an OAT/xHOAT does help with advertised TCO of a car and sustainability.
An triazole or similar chemical is used to protect lead solder in an coolant - and the OATs have less of that.
 
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Originally Posted By: nthach
.....I'm now thinking the red LLC formula doesn't have an organic acid....

The LL Red ingredients are as listed....

Ethylene Glycol(107-21-1),Diethylene Glycol(111-46-6) Water(7732-18-5) Organic Acid Salt(532-32-1) Hydrated Inorganic Salt(1310-58-3).. That information comes directly off a jug of LL Red and posted when the red LL v pink SLL topic was discussed in 2010, linked.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/1747921/Re:_Toyota_red_long_life_&

It confirms LL Red does contain/use organic acid, specifically sodium benzoate as an OAT inhibitor. When they went to SLL pink ingredients indicate they went to sebecic acid/(sebacate) as the OAT inhibitor.

As noted, Toyota says SLL pink is backward compatible with the Red and can be used in it's place. 'Perhaps' in much older Toyotas, say pre-1996, I might stick with the red out of extreme caution for heater core solder. Otherwise, the Toyota weep hole tsb shown appears to dispel most those anecdotal observation concerns. So unless one just doesn't trust Toyota Motor Corp on SLL pink use, or simply prefers the old shorter service interval Red LL, no reason not to use SLL pink.

I can think of one reason though why Toyota mechanics might like the Red LL over the SLL pink. With the shorter service interval, it means more work for them.
 
Originally Posted By: Sayjac
Originally Posted By: nthach
.....I'm now thinking the red LLC formula doesn't have an organic acid....

The LL Red ingredients are as listed....

Ethylene Glycol(107-21-1),Diethylene Glycol(111-46-6) Water(7732-18-5) Organic Acid Salt(532-32-1) Hydrated Inorganic Salt(1310-58-3).. That information comes directly off a jug of LL Red and posted when the red LL v pink SLL topic was discussed in 2010, linked.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/1747921/Re:_Toyota_red_long_life_&

It confirms LL Red does contain/use organic acid, specifically sodium benzoate as an OAT inhibitor. When they went to SLL pink ingredients indicate they went to sebecic acid/(sebacate) as the OAT inhibitor.


Sodium benzoate is the same OAT used in Zerex Asian Formula and yet Valvoline/BASF says it's fine for 10/100 service intervals. The inorganic acid salt is potassium hydroxide - which serves as an alkaline base and could provide an alkaline buffer to keep the pH towards the basic side of things.

I wonder if if there's an substantial difference between sodium benzoate and sebacic acid - they should be in theory compatible, benzoate has been proven by BASF in G-05. Does sebacate persist longer or is Toyota/CCI using a different alkaline buffer?

Both Valvoline/BASF and CCI don't list the phosphate component of their OEM and service fills, dipotassium phosphate has been used in old-school green as the phosphate component, a BASF patent(the same one listed on Zerex AF) mentions a phosphate salt that plays nice in hard water. Phosphates are good chelating agents which is why TSP works so well as a cleaner.
 
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I always used the red in my 2002 Tacoma up until I had the radiator replaced 3-4 years ago. They used the Zerex Asian at the shop, so that's what I've stuck with. I even use it in my 2003 Hyundai now even though it originally came with the old green antifreeze. When I had some work done on it (water pump was leaking badly) the mechanic flushed and used Zerex Asian. All seems fine. It is also nice have 3 of my 4 vehicles using the same coolant!
 
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