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#4684128 - 03/04/18 01:29 PM Where are all the A5/B5 oils?
1JZ_E46 Offline


Registered: 04/04/16
Posts: 1229
Loc: Oregon
Seems many new cars are specifying A5/B5, but that specification is no where to be found among the main engine oil manufacturers (except Pennzoil). What’s the deal? Is it really that much of a harder spec than A1/B1 (I see that everywhere).
_________________________
2007 BMW X5 4.8i, 105K: Castrol EDGE 0W-40, Mann
2012 Mini Cooper, 45K: Castrol EDGE 0W-30, Mann

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#4684135 - 03/04/18 01:39 PM Re: Where are all the A5/B5 oils? [Re: 1JZ_E46]
Linctex Offline


Registered: 12/31/16
Posts: 6160
Loc: Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
Is it really that much of a harder spec than A1/B1 (I see that everywhere).


I seriously doubt it.

Is it a Low-SAPS specification?
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#4684153 - 03/04/18 02:05 PM Re: Where are all the A5/B5 oils? [Re: 1JZ_E46]
slacktide_bitog Offline


Registered: 03/20/08
Posts: 6177
Loc: USA
Castrol was supposed to reformulate their 5w30 to meet the new A5/B5 standards, but unfortunately this still hasn't materialized

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#4684189 - 03/04/18 02:52 PM Re: Where are all the A5/B5 oils? [Re: 1JZ_E46]
turnbowm Offline


Registered: 05/14/15
Posts: 154
Loc: So. Calif.
High-temperature shear (HTHS) can be as low as 2.6 for A1/B1 and a minimum of 2.9 for A5/B5. On that basis alone, I would go for A5/B5. It also happens to be what the Owners Manual recommends for my car.
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#4684202 - 03/04/18 03:03 PM Re: Where are all the A5/B5 oils? [Re: 1JZ_E46]
03s Offline


Registered: 09/21/08
Posts: 70
Loc: St. Catharines Ontario Canada
Valvoline Advanced Full synthetic and Full synthetic with Maxlife technology 5W-30 are both ACEA A5/B5 and HTHS of 3.2 and 3.1. Don't see it listed for Modern Engine oil though.
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#4684205 - 03/04/18 03:07 PM Re: Where are all the A5/B5 oils? [Re: 1JZ_E46]
slacktide_bitog Offline


Registered: 03/20/08
Posts: 6177
Loc: USA
But my choice would be to use an A3/B4 5w30 or 0w30 (like Castrol Edge 0w30 or Liqui-Moly 5w30), or one of the new 5w30 synthetic HDEO's like Rotella T6 5w30 (from Napa or O'R) or Chevron Delo 400LE 5w30 (available on Amazon)

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#4684238 - 03/04/18 03:56 PM Re: Where are all the A5/B5 oils? [Re: 1JZ_E46]
4ever4d Offline


Registered: 01/02/10
Posts: 953
Loc: North Carolina
They are there to be had you just have to look for them. They most likely will not be on the shelf at the Walmart or auto parts stores.
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#4684278 - 03/04/18 04:28 PM Re: Where are all the A5/B5 oils? [Re: 1JZ_E46]
madeej11 Online   content


Registered: 06/22/15
Posts: 114
Loc: montreal ,canada
Almost all Amsoil lines have it. No need to use SS. XL and OE also have that spec.

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#4684280 - 03/04/18 04:29 PM Re: Where are all the A5/B5 oils? [Re: 1JZ_E46]
SR5 Offline


Registered: 07/07/15
Posts: 4471
Loc: Down Under
The A1/B1 spec has been removed from the 2016 ACEA Sequences, and is on the way out. I can see why too, everything A1/B1 can do the A5/B5 can do and is often held to a higher standard when doing it.

If you go back to some previous ACEA sequences, like the 2010 HERE you can compare the two.

Much is the same for A1 & A5 (except for HTHS min as detailed above) until you get to the wear an deposit tests:
Cam Wear (microns)
A1/B1 <140 outlet, <110 inlet
A5/B5 <120 outlet, <100 inlet

Also for the ring sticking test, A5/B5 is required to be 20% better than A1/B1 for one of the average tests.

I would always select an A5/B5 over a A1/B1 any day of the week.

We get some nice A5/B5 oils from Castrol, Valvoline and Penrite in Australia.
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Penrite Vantage 10W40 SN & A3/B4 + Wesfil-Cooper Z154

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#4684724 - 03/04/18 11:41 PM Re: Where are all the A5/B5 oils? [Re: 1JZ_E46]
1JZ_E46 Offline


Registered: 04/04/16
Posts: 1229
Loc: Oregon
Hopefully once the A1/B1 sequence is expired we will see more A5/B5. Seems to be a superior spec all around.
_________________________
2007 BMW X5 4.8i, 105K: Castrol EDGE 0W-40, Mann
2012 Mini Cooper, 45K: Castrol EDGE 0W-30, Mann

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#4684811 - 03/05/18 05:58 AM Re: Where are all the A5/B5 oils? [Re: SR5]
wemay Offline


Registered: 04/04/12
Posts: 8896
Loc: Southeast Florida
Originally Posted By: SR5
The A1/B1 spec has been removed from the 2016 ACEA Sequences, and is on the way out. I can see why too, everything A1/B1 can do the A5/B5 can do and is often held to a higher standard when doing it.

If you go back to some previous ACEA sequences, like the 2010 HERE you can compare the two.

Much is the same for A1 & A5 (except for HTHS min as detailed above) until you get to the wear an deposit tests:
Cam Wear (microns)
A1/B1 <140 outlet, <110 inlet
A5/B5 <120 outlet, <100 inlet

Also for the ring sticking test, A5/B5 is required to be 20% better than A1/B1 for one of the average tests.

I would always select an A5/B5 over a A1/B1 any day of the week.

We get some nice A5/B5 oils from Castrol, Valvoline and Penrite in Australia.


This^
Good information share, SR5.
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#4684889 - 03/05/18 08:07 AM Re: Where are all the A5/B5 oils? [Re: wemay]
SR5 Offline


Registered: 07/07/15
Posts: 4471
Loc: Down Under
Originally Posted By: wemay

This^
Good information share, SR5.


Thanks Mate,

Looking over the 2010 ACEA Sequences, the Noack volatility limit for A5/B5 is 13% but for A1/B1 it's 15%.

So compared to A1/B1, a A5/B5 oil is required to have a higher min HTHS, a lower max Noack, lower cam wear results and cleaner piston rings.

Note, I'm talking about the standard here, not individual oils. Many oils like M1 5W30 (A1/B1) easily meet the A5/B5 standard for some factors such as Noack and HTHS. Still other oils like PP 5W30 are rated A5/B5, which reflects well upon them.

If you want to step it up another notch, consider a Ford WSS-M2C913-D oil. It starts as a full synthetic 5W30 A5/B5 oil, and then Ford adds Increased TBN requirement (from ACEA level of 8 to a Ford requirement of 10) and an extra cam chair wear test (which often translates to more ZDDP at about the 1000 ppm level), plus extra oxidation tests and seal compatibility tests.
Most of the Ford 913-D oils I have seen are "only" SL rated due to their elevated Zinc & Phos levels, but those A5/B5 requirements that are pushed even higher by Ford, make for a great oil.

The 913-D 5W30 is the required oil for the Ford Mustang in Australia.
_________________________
Penrite Vantage 10W40 SN & A3/B4 + Wesfil-Cooper Z154

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#4685269 - 03/05/18 02:32 PM Re: Where are all the A5/B5 oils? [Re: 1JZ_E46]
1JZ_E46 Offline


Registered: 04/04/16
Posts: 1229
Loc: Oregon
Thanks SR5. Good information.
_________________________
2007 BMW X5 4.8i, 105K: Castrol EDGE 0W-40, Mann
2012 Mini Cooper, 45K: Castrol EDGE 0W-30, Mann

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