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Where are all the A5/B5 oils? #4684128
03/04/18 01:29 PM
03/04/18 01:29 PM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,585
Oregon
1JZ_E46 Offline OP
1JZ_E46  Offline OP
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,585
Oregon
Seems many new cars are specifying A5/B5, but that specification is no where to be found among the main engine oil manufacturers (except Pennzoil). What’s the deal? Is it really that much of a harder spec than A1/B1 (I see that everywhere).


2007 X5 4.8i: M1 HM 10W-30
2016 Countryman S: EDGE 0W-30
Re: Where are all the A5/B5 oils? [Re: 1JZ_E46] #4684135
03/04/18 01:39 PM
03/04/18 01:39 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 7,143
Waco, TX
Linctex Online content
Linctex  Online Content
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 7,143
Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
Is it really that much of a harder spec than A1/B1 (I see that everywhere).


I seriously doubt it.

Is it a Low-SAPS specification?


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: Where are all the A5/B5 oils? [Re: 1JZ_E46] #4684153
03/04/18 02:05 PM
03/04/18 02:05 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,326
USA
slacktide_bitog Online content
slacktide_bitog  Online Content
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,326
USA
Castrol was supposed to reformulate their 5w30 to meet the new A5/B5 standards, but unfortunately this still hasn't materialized

Re: Where are all the A5/B5 oils? [Re: 1JZ_E46] #4684189
03/04/18 02:52 PM
03/04/18 02:52 PM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 297
So. Calif.
turnbowm Online content
turnbowm  Online Content
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 297
So. Calif.
High-temperature shear (HTHS) can be as low as 2.6 for A1/B1 and a minimum of 2.9 for A5/B5. On that basis alone, I would go for A5/B5. It also happens to be what the Owners Manual recommends for my car.


2015 Kia Optima EX 2.4L GDI
2015 Chevy Volt
Re: Where are all the A5/B5 oils? [Re: 1JZ_E46] #4684202
03/04/18 03:03 PM
03/04/18 03:03 PM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 76
St. Catharines Ontario Canada
03s Offline
03s  Offline
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 76
St. Catharines Ontario Canada
Valvoline Advanced Full synthetic and Full synthetic with Maxlife technology 5W-30 are both ACEA A5/B5 and HTHS of 3.2 and 3.1. Don't see it listed for Modern Engine oil though.


2005 Chevrolet Optra
Kendall GT-1 Max with Liquid Titanium 5W-30
Fram Ultra XG3387A
Re: Where are all the A5/B5 oils? [Re: 1JZ_E46] #4684205
03/04/18 03:07 PM
03/04/18 03:07 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,326
USA
slacktide_bitog Online content
slacktide_bitog  Online Content
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,326
USA
But my choice would be to use an A3/B4 5w30 or 0w30 (like Castrol Edge 0w30 or Liqui-Moly 5w30), or one of the new 5w30 synthetic HDEO's like Rotella T6 5w30 (from Napa or O'R) or Chevron Delo 400LE 5w30 (available on Amazon)

Re: Where are all the A5/B5 oils? [Re: 1JZ_E46] #4684238
03/04/18 03:56 PM
03/04/18 03:56 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 954
North Carolina
4ever4d Offline
4ever4d  Offline
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 954
North Carolina
They are there to be had you just have to look for them. They most likely will not be on the shelf at the Walmart or auto parts stores.


04 Chevy Colorado 3.5 I5 5w-30 OEF
07 Honda Element 2.4 I4 5w-20 OEM
10 Nissan Rogue AWD 2.5 I4 5w-30 OEF
Amsoil Products & Fram or Wix Filters




Re: Where are all the A5/B5 oils? [Re: 1JZ_E46] #4684278
03/04/18 04:28 PM
03/04/18 04:28 PM
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 301
montreal ,canada
madeej11 Offline
madeej11  Offline
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 301
montreal ,canada
Almost all Amsoil lines have it. No need to use SS. XL and OE also have that spec.

Re: Where are all the A5/B5 oils? [Re: 1JZ_E46] #4684280
03/04/18 04:29 PM
03/04/18 04:29 PM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,655
Down Under
SR5 Offline
SR5  Offline
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,655
Down Under
The A1/B1 spec has been removed from the 2016 ACEA Sequences, and is on the way out. I can see why too, everything A1/B1 can do the A5/B5 can do and is often held to a higher standard when doing it.

If you go back to some previous ACEA sequences, like the 2010 HERE you can compare the two.

Much is the same for A1 & A5 (except for HTHS min as detailed above) until you get to the wear an deposit tests:
Cam Wear (microns)
A1/B1 <140 outlet, <110 inlet
A5/B5 <120 outlet, <100 inlet

Also for the ring sticking test, A5/B5 is required to be 20% better than A1/B1 for one of the average tests.

I would always select an A5/B5 over a A1/B1 any day of the week.

We get some nice A5/B5 oils from Castrol, Valvoline and Penrite in Australia.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Castrol GTX Ultraclean 15W40 A3/B3 + Wesfil-Cooper Z154
Re: Where are all the A5/B5 oils? [Re: 1JZ_E46] #4684724
03/04/18 11:41 PM
03/04/18 11:41 PM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,585
Oregon
1JZ_E46 Offline OP
1JZ_E46  Offline OP
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,585
Oregon
Hopefully once the A1/B1 sequence is expired we will see more A5/B5. Seems to be a superior spec all around.


2007 X5 4.8i: M1 HM 10W-30
2016 Countryman S: EDGE 0W-30
Re: Where are all the A5/B5 oils? [Re: SR5] #4684811
03/05/18 05:58 AM
03/05/18 05:58 AM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 9,833
Kendall, FL
wemay Offline
wemay  Offline
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 9,833
Kendall, FL
Originally Posted By: SR5
The A1/B1 spec has been removed from the 2016 ACEA Sequences, and is on the way out. I can see why too, everything A1/B1 can do the A5/B5 can do and is often held to a higher standard when doing it.

If you go back to some previous ACEA sequences, like the 2010 HERE you can compare the two.

Much is the same for A1 & A5 (except for HTHS min as detailed above) until you get to the wear an deposit tests:
Cam Wear (microns)
A1/B1 <140 outlet, <110 inlet
A5/B5 <120 outlet, <100 inlet

Also for the ring sticking test, A5/B5 is required to be 20% better than A1/B1 for one of the average tests.

I would always select an A5/B5 over a A1/B1 any day of the week.

We get some nice A5/B5 oils from Castrol, Valvoline and Penrite in Australia.


This^
Good information share, SR5.


18 Sportage 2.4L AWD: Mobil1 Annual Protection 5W20 + Mobil1-104A + e air WIX10335
13 Santa Fe Sport 2.0T: Pennzoil Platinum 10W30 + FRAM XG9688 + e air WIX49670

Re: Where are all the A5/B5 oils? [Re: wemay] #4684889
03/05/18 08:07 AM
03/05/18 08:07 AM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,655
Down Under
SR5 Offline
SR5  Offline
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,655
Down Under
Originally Posted By: wemay

This^
Good information share, SR5.


Thanks Mate,

Looking over the 2010 ACEA Sequences, the Noack volatility limit for A5/B5 is 13% but for A1/B1 it's 15%.

So compared to A1/B1, a A5/B5 oil is required to have a higher min HTHS, a lower max Noack, lower cam wear results and cleaner piston rings.

Note, I'm talking about the standard here, not individual oils. Many oils like M1 5W30 (A1/B1) easily meet the A5/B5 standard for some factors such as Noack and HTHS. Still other oils like PP 5W30 are rated A5/B5, which reflects well upon them.

If you want to step it up another notch, consider a Ford WSS-M2C913-D oil. It starts as a full synthetic 5W30 A5/B5 oil, and then Ford adds Increased TBN requirement (from ACEA level of 8 to a Ford requirement of 10) and an extra cam chair wear test (which often translates to more ZDDP at about the 1000 ppm level), plus extra oxidation tests and seal compatibility tests.
Most of the Ford 913-D oils I have seen are "only" SL rated due to their elevated Zinc & Phos levels, but those A5/B5 requirements that are pushed even higher by Ford, make for a great oil.

The 913-D 5W30 is the required oil for the Ford Mustang in Australia.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Castrol GTX Ultraclean 15W40 A3/B3 + Wesfil-Cooper Z154
Re: Where are all the A5/B5 oils? [Re: 1JZ_E46] #4685269
03/05/18 02:32 PM
03/05/18 02:32 PM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,585
Oregon
1JZ_E46 Offline OP
1JZ_E46  Offline OP
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,585
Oregon
Thanks SR5. Good information.


2007 X5 4.8i: M1 HM 10W-30
2016 Countryman S: EDGE 0W-30

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