PCV Catch Can

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I wasn't sure where to post this. If it's in the wrong forum, I apologize.
Does anyone run a pcv catch can on their engine? I have before on some of the high performance engines that I built for a few street rods I once owned. I would usually buy my parts from Graingers, HD, and get some parts from work (with permission). I would usually use a glass bowl fuel separator or, an air compressor oil separator. MOROSO makes a great catch can, but I could have built 3-4 for the price of their catch can.
If you do have a catch can, I would like to see the way YOU constructed yours (pics).
 
The General Automotive forum will get a lot more response on this topic.

I've ran a catch can on all my high performance cars. A well designed catch can really does help keep oil out if the intake system.
 
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
The General Automotive forum will get a lot more response on this topic.

I've ran a catch can on all my high performance cars. A well designed catch can really does help keep oil out if the intake system.

Any photos of your set up ?
 
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
The General Automotive forum will get a lot more response on this topic.

I've ran a catch can on all my high performance cars. A well designed catch can really does help keep oil out if the intake system.

Any photos of your set up ?


Elite Engineering brand. The hose going into the top of the catch can is from the valley cover (ie, crankcase vapors) and the hose going into the intake manifold is the hose coming off the side of the can. Works pretty good, as you can see the oil it caught after about 1000 miles of use. Photos of work being done was valve spring replacment (some LS6s were breaking OEM springs) and a throttle body coolant bypass (ie, didn't want the throttle body running at 200 deg F).









 
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
The General Automotive forum will get a lot more response on this topic.

I've ran a catch can on all my high performance cars. A well designed catch can really does help keep oil out if the intake system.

Any photos of your set up ?


Elite Engineering brand. The hose going into the top of the catch can is from the valley cover (ie, crankcase vapors) and the hose going into the intake manifold is the hose coming off the side of the can. Works pretty good, as you can see the oil it caught after about 1000 miles of use. Photos of work being done was valve spring replacment (some LS6s were breaking OEM springs) and a throttle body coolant bypass (ie, didn't want the throttle body running at 200 deg F).











Z06, that's EXACTLY what a catch can does for an engine! Now, if the upper end of the heads are that clean, just imagine what the flip side looks like.
What's in your can, that's after 1K miles? Just out of curiosity, have you ever done a UOA on the waste oil? It would be interesting to see the results.
 
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
What's in your can, that's after 1K miles? Just out of curiosity, have you ever done a UOA on the waste oil? It would be interesting to see the results.


I always measured the amount in the catch can when I emptied it. The amount would range from 1 oz every 1000 to 1500 miles driven, depending on how hard the car was driven. Higher RPM and more RPM gave a little more oil in the catch can.

Never did a UOA on the oil. The stuff in the catch can would probably test way worse than the engine oil because it would also have a lot of water and fuel compared to the sump oil.
 
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
The General Automotive forum will get a lot more response on this topic.

I've ran a catch can on all my high performance cars. A well designed catch can really does help keep oil out if the intake system.

I started to put it there but, wasn't sure if to put it in the Racing forum, or Automotive General? So, being it's like a bypass system, theoretically, that's where it landed.
I started thinking about my engine building/racing days, and started dissecting each aspect of what was involved. I am starting with, what I think anyway, is the trivial parts of the hobby/sport. I can go on forever asking Q?'s about this subject, but to find the ones that are serious with their replies, I find that the challenging part. But, maybe I'm "NOT" giving enough credit where credit is due, in their replies....????!!!???
 
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
What's in your can, that's after 1K miles? Just out of curiosity, have you ever done a UOA on the waste oil? It would be interesting to see the results.


I always measured the amount in the catch can when I emptied it. The amount would range from 1 oz every 1000 to 1500 miles driven, depending on how hard the car was driven. Higher RPM and more RPM gave a little more oil in the catch can.

Never did a UOA on the oil. The stuff in the catch can would probably test way worse than the engine oil because it would also have a lot of water and fuel compared to the sump oil.

This might be true, but think about what you can learn about what's being filtered out of your engine. I mean, it might sound "trivial" in a way, but it's a step further to learn how you can adjust anything, or maybe eliminate/add something to determine a better result. I hope you understand where I'm going with this.
Like I have stated before, my mind knows what I want to type, but my fingers are typing something else.
21.gif
 
I ran a Moroso on my LS1 Z28, and now I run a Damond Motorsports OCC/AOS on my EcoBoost ST.

I figure less oil in the intake tract is a good thing for octane ratings in general (like on an LSx), and keeping as much oil off of the backs of the intake valves as possible (OF COURSE the can is not going to get it ALL) is CRITICAL for a turbo GDI engine with 10.0 to 1 CR AND 20+ lbs. of factory tune boost at max.
wink.gif
 
Seems nicely made, but it doesn't seem very well designed.

For example

(a) The filtering element is at the point of entry, where the gases/vapours are hottest, and moving fastest.

This means they have placed the limited amount of filtration material where it is likely to be least effective.

(b) There doesn't seem to be any baffling in the lower part of the can.

This means there is nothing to stop the gases/vapours cutting straight across to the exit port and exiting directly, Although they are shown goiung to the bottom of the can and then back up, theres no obvious reason why they would.

The effect of these apparent design flaws on performance will depend partly on the temperature and volume of the incoming vapours. If the path is long and there isn't too much blowby it might still work ok.

It could be improved by adding more filter material and some baffling, ideally spiral baffling which would have a cyclonic effect. Such modifications would reduce the volume available for storage of trapped liquids, so you might have to drain it more often, especially if its efficiency increases.
 
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The incoming flow slows down in the chamber where the stainless steel mesh material resides and most of the oil will condense out, then slows down even more when it enters the bigger chambered area. The inlet chamber is actually completely full of stainless mesh material, drawing done the way it was to better show the inlet chamber area and flow path. Outlet hole is up high to give a long flow path, and to also ensure plenty of room in the bottom of the can so the retained oil level doesn't get close to the outlet hole and send a slug of oil to the intake manifold when whipping the car around.

This catch can was tested against a few other decent designed catch cans on the market on the same car by someone, and it performed just as good or better than most. The can is only so big, and you don't want a catch can the size of a 1/2 gallon pickle jar.
 
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
The incoming flow slows down in the chamber where the stainless steel mesh material resides and most of the oil will condense out, then slows down even more when it enters the bigger chambered area. The inlet chamber is actually completely full of stainless mesh material, drawing done the way it was to better show the inlet chamber area and flow path. Outlet hole is up high to give a long flow path, and to also ensure plenty of room in the bottom of the can so the retained oil level doesn't get close to the outlet hole and send a slug of oil to the intake manifold when whipping the car around.

This catch can was tested against a few other decent designed catch cans on the market on the same car by someone, and it performed just as good or better than most. The can is only so big, and you don't want a catch can the size of a 1/2 gallon pickle jar.

You can always run the SUPER SIZE; a 55 gallon drum in the back seat of your 'Vette.
crackmeup2.gif
 
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
The incoming flow slows down in the chamber where the stainless steel mesh material resides and most of the oil will condense out, then slows down even more when it enters the bigger chambered area. The inlet chamber is actually completely full of stainless mesh material, drawing done the way it was to better show the inlet chamber area and flow path. Outlet hole is up high to give a long flow path, and to also ensure plenty of room in the bottom of the can so the retained oil level doesn't get close to the outlet hole and send a slug of oil to the intake manifold when whipping the car around.

This catch can was tested against a few other decent designed catch cans on the market on the same car by someone, and it performed just as good or better than most. The can is only so big, and you don't want a catch can the size of a 1/2 gallon pickle jar.


Tis-tisn't then. I'm going by what I can see. If you like it, fine.

Was it expensive?
 
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
You can always run the SUPER SIZE; a 55 gallon drum in the back seat of your 'Vette.
crackmeup2.gif



Rigging up a thero-electic cooling device on the can to keep it at 35 deg F whould probably be easier and more effective.
 
Originally Posted By: Ducked
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
The incoming flow slows down in the chamber where the stainless steel mesh material resides and most of the oil will condense out, then slows down even more when it enters the bigger chambered area. The inlet chamber is actually completely full of stainless mesh material, drawing done the way it was to better show the inlet chamber area and flow path. Outlet hole is up high to give a long flow path, and to also ensure plenty of room in the bottom of the can so the retained oil level doesn't get close to the outlet hole and send a slug of oil to the intake manifold when whipping the car around.

This catch can was tested against a few other decent designed catch cans on the market on the same car by someone, and it performed just as good or better than most. The can is only so big, and you don't want a catch can the size of a 1/2 gallon pickle jar.


Tis-tisn't then. I'm going by what I can see. If you like it, fine.

Was it expensive?


Not saying it couldn't be improved some, but doubt it would make much of a difference based on my research on catch cans.

I bought it many years ago, and IIRC it was around $120. The ones made today are $160, and it's possible the newer 2nd Gen ones have been improved since mine is 12 years old.

http://www.eliteengineeringusa.com/choose-your-catch-can/
 
I agree with ducked's assessment.

You need the blowby to enter the chamber and expand to the greatest degree, dropping velocity, and therefore harder to ballistically support falling droplets...THEN go through the coallescer stage on it's way back to the intake.

The ones that guys are running on their turbodiesels down here (oil and EGR means clogged intakes) they make out of PVC pipe. An internal pipe sends the incoming gasses straight to the bottom, stopping about an inch or so from the floor. The heavy particles smash into the floor/oil layer. The balance then have to do a U turn to climb back up with the gasflow, into a chamber that's now a dozen times the cross sectional area, so no velocity to carry them up.

Then through a couple inches of steel wool, or open cell foam to coallesce the tinier of the particles of oil.
 
Shannow - The owner of Elite Engineering was a member on the Z06 chat board I hung out on, and when these catch cans were first being designed a few people mentioned the same thing to the owner about the design. They ran it both ways during developement (swapped inlet/outlet hoses) and it didn't make any measurable difference. This is PCV flow, which isn't going to be very high anyway since the PCV valve is still in the system.

They've been making and selling these catch cans for over 12 years, so I'd think if they could have improved them in some significant way they would have. It's a very popular brand and they make them for many makes of high performance vehicles as their website shows. When they first started making these, it was only for the C5 Vettes, but they have since really expanded the product line and vehicle applications.
 
Cool I get that, but as you know there's a difference between what's technically superior, and what can be measureable in real world. Error band on catch can collection swamps just about everything.

I know that I've seen something on basically a UOA of catch can contents...will go looking.

There's a honda paper 26-2_13e which has some good information on what happens when the streams impinge on sutfaces.
 
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