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5W-20 With Lowest Volitility NOACK Rating? #4683467
03/03/18 07:13 PM
03/03/18 07:13 PM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 18,761
PNW
ZeeOSix Offline OP
ZeeOSix  Offline OP
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 18,761
PNW
It's probably been discussed before, but what full synthetic motor oils have the lowest Volatility NOACK rating in 5W-20? I've found that a lot of manufactures don't always show the NOACK number.

Here's a chart I found for GF-5 rated 5W-30 ... but not sure if it would also apply to 5W-20.


Re: 5W-20 With Lowest Volitility NOACK Rating? [Re: ZeeOSix] #4683502
03/03/18 07:45 PM
03/03/18 07:45 PM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 1,061
US
JLTD Offline
JLTD  Offline
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 1,061
US
I think each oil is different...for example Amsoil's website shows 5.8 NOACK on their 5w20 and 8.5 on their 0w20 - very different than the chart you posted.


I'm a thickie; but a 20 has its place.

Currently using AMSOIL

Hers: 2008 Jeep Liberty 138k, SS 5w30/Amsoil

His: 2015 4Runner 41k, OE 5w20/Wix

Re: 5W-20 With Lowest Volitility NOACK Rating? [Re: ZeeOSix] #4683513
03/03/18 07:55 PM
03/03/18 07:55 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 40,946
'Stralia
Shannow Online content
Shannow  Online Content
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 40,946
'Stralia
I would intuit that a 5W20 would have a lower NOACK, all other things being equal, as they don't have to "stretch" it so far.

Looking at the PQIA results for same brands in 5W20 versus 5W30, it looks like a wash...maybe a slight edge to the 5W20, but not really enough to state as a fact.

Citgo Supergard - essentially the same.
http://pqiadata.org/CITGO_Supergard_5W30.html
http://www.pqiadata.org/CITGOSupergard5W20.html

Trop Arctic - essentially the same.
http://www.pqiadata.org/Phillips66TropArtic5W30.html
http://pqiadata.org/Phillips66_Trop_Artic_5W20.html

Assuming that they don't play games (like RP lineup having clearly different basestock blends through the range), I'd be comfortable using that chart that you have for choosing a 5W20.

Re: 5W-20 With Lowest Volitility NOACK Rating? [Re: ZeeOSix] #4683543
03/03/18 08:18 PM
03/03/18 08:18 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 11,864
Idaho
CT8 Offline
CT8  Offline
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 11,864
Idaho
Why do people worry about the lowest NOACK numbers.


2015 Ford F150 2.7
2018 Ford F350 6.2
Re: 5W-20 With Lowest Volitility NOACK Rating? [Re: ZeeOSix] #4683549
03/03/18 08:20 PM
03/03/18 08:20 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 5,873
Kalifornia Kollective
BrocLuno Offline
BrocLuno  Offline
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 5,873
Kalifornia Kollective
Deposits I guess ...


Formerly in marine engineering. In an earlier life I owned my own petroleum tank truck, and hauled for the majors and independent's.
Re: 5W-20 With Lowest Volitility NOACK Rating? [Re: ZeeOSix] #4683551
03/03/18 08:23 PM
03/03/18 08:23 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 9,409
Kendall, FL
wemay Offline
wemay  Offline
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 9,409
Kendall, FL
Valvoline Full Synthetic lists theirs at 7.6%

https://sharena21.springcm.com/Public/Do...12-ac162d889bd1


'18 KIA Sportage LX AWD 2.4L: MSS 10w30
'13 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport 2.0T: EDGE 5w30
Re: 5W-20 With Lowest Volitility NOACK Rating? [Re: ZeeOSix] #4683559
03/03/18 08:27 PM
03/03/18 08:27 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,176
Pennsylbammyvania
dailydriver Offline
dailydriver  Offline
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,176
Pennsylbammyvania
I would use the Red Line in my 1.6 GDI EcoBoost, but fear for the high(er) calcium and ZDDP levels (higher moly content of EITHER type actually has been shown to help stave off LSPI), unless Dave can assure me otherwise. wink

The Ravenol 5W-30 DXG Dexos 1, Gen 2 formula I plan to use (once Blauparts has it in stock here in the states), has a NOACK right in there with the Red Line on that chart @ 6.0 (maybe because it has a similar base stock PAO/POE blend shrug and yeah, I know all about the GTL basestocks in the SOPUS products and how it also has low volatility percentage properties).

It is only a little bit thicker than almost any other 5W-20 I would use (@ a 3.1 HTHSV, Red Line is a 3.0 HTHSV), which is fine for a hard driven, summer OCI turbo GDI setup, and it also uses a trick anti-wear, anti-friction add pack of TRIMER moly and tungsten.
All this for about $2.50 less a liter than Red Line, with a detergent/dispersant pack designed specifically for GDI/turbo setups (I'm guessing that they substitute magnesium/boron/whatever for a high calcium content to get even it's modest 8.3 starting TBN, which is about the same as Red Line's anyway?) and their LSPI problems.


2016 Ford Fiesta ST
Ravenol REP 5W-30
Amsoil Ea15K51 filter
Motul Gear 300 non-LS 75W-90
Re: 5W-20 With Lowest Volitility NOACK Rating? [Re: BrocLuno] #4683566
03/03/18 08:32 PM
03/03/18 08:32 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,176
Pennsylbammyvania
dailydriver Offline
dailydriver  Offline
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,176
Pennsylbammyvania
Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
Deposits I guess ...


There is fairly strong evidence that a higher NOACK percentage helps accelerate/exacerbate back of intake valve deposit buildup on GDI engines, turbo/boosted GDIs even more so (unless they also have a secondary port injection system in conjunction with the DI, like the current Mustang 5.0 Coyote does). frown


2016 Ford Fiesta ST
Ravenol REP 5W-30
Amsoil Ea15K51 filter
Motul Gear 300 non-LS 75W-90
Re: 5W-20 With Lowest Volitility NOACK Rating? [Re: ZeeOSix] #4683573
03/03/18 08:38 PM
03/03/18 08:38 PM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 683
South Carolina
eyeofthetiger Offline
eyeofthetiger  Offline
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 683
South Carolina
I was trying to find this information for multiple oils, and settled on Valvoline with 7.6% NOACK. I couldn't find test numbers for half the oils I was looking up Also, the 9.3 TBN is pretty good, and it's only $22/5qts.


2017 Ford Fiesta 1.0T - Valvoline SynPower 5W-20, Motorcraft FL910S
1988 GMC K1500 4.3/700R4 - Supertech 15W-40, Fram TG3980
1986 Ford Ranger 2.0 - uhh
Re: 5W-20 With Lowest Volitility NOACK Rating? [Re: ZeeOSix] #4683591
03/03/18 08:55 PM
03/03/18 08:55 PM
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 158
montreal ,canada
madeej11 Offline
madeej11  Offline
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 158
montreal ,canada
JLTD pretty well got it nailed with the Amsoil SS 5w20 at 5.8. Maybe Red Line might be lower but it may be at the high end as far as thickness goes. Then again I am a little biased towards Amsoil products

Re: 5W-20 With Lowest Volitility NOACK Rating? [Re: eyeofthetiger] #4683594
03/03/18 08:59 PM
03/03/18 08:59 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,176
Pennsylbammyvania
dailydriver Offline
dailydriver  Offline
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,176
Pennsylbammyvania
Originally Posted By: eyeofthetiger
I was trying to find this information for multiple oils, and settled on Valvoline with 7.6% NOACK. I couldn't find test numbers for half the oils I was looking up Also, the 9.3 TBN is pretty good, and it's only $22/5qts.


Is that their 'new formula' "Modern Engine Oil" marketed for T/GDI setups?

Is there an additional Ford oil spec for your engine needed to be compatible with the oil contact timing belt, or is it the same 945-A as they require for my 1.6 which uses a dry timing belt?


2016 Ford Fiesta ST
Ravenol REP 5W-30
Amsoil Ea15K51 filter
Motul Gear 300 non-LS 75W-90
Re: 5W-20 With Lowest Volitility NOACK Rating? [Re: CT8] #4683866
03/04/18 09:29 AM
03/04/18 09:29 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 16,027
OH
fdcg27 Offline
fdcg27  Offline
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 16,027
OH
Originally Posted By: CT8
Why do people worry about the lowest NOACK numbers.


A less volatile oil is less likely to bring ring sticking over time and miles.
This is a real concern with many current engines.
OTOH, I wonder what the NOACK numbers would have been for the various oils I used in various engines over the years with no problems?


17 Forester 18K VME 0W-20
12 Accord LX 92K PP 5W-20
09 Forester 95K M1HM 10W-30
01 Focus ZX3 118K PP 5W-20
96 Accord LX 104K T5 10W-30
95 318i
Re: 5W-20 With Lowest Volitility NOACK Rating? [Re: ZeeOSix] #4683877
03/04/18 09:40 AM
03/04/18 09:40 AM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 12,574
NH
supton Online content
supton  Online Content
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 12,574
NH
Does Noack change with age? Say as it gets some wear and tear. Does evaporation go up?

On the flip side, once the lighter compounds initially present in the oil evaporate off, does evaporation slow down?

In short, is Noack a constant?


2011 Toyota Camry, base, 2.5L/6MT, 163k, hers
2010 Toyota Tundra DC, 4.6L/6AT, 144k, ours
1999 Toyota Camry LE, 2.2L/4AT, 190k, his
Re: 5W-20 With Lowest Volitility NOACK Rating? [Re: supton] #4683927
03/04/18 10:36 AM
03/04/18 10:36 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 16,027
OH
fdcg27 Offline
fdcg27  Offline
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 16,027
OH
NOACK is measured by a defined test protocol and represents a snapshot of what you'd see with fresh oil.
What you're really asking is how volatility changes with age.
My guess is that it would decline since the most volatile fractions would be evaporated out early in the OCI leaving behind what should be a less volatile blend.
OTOH, fuel dilution might make for greater volatility with use. Fuel dilution is often measured using flash point, which would depend upon volatility.
I'd love to hear from SOJ on this.


17 Forester 18K VME 0W-20
12 Accord LX 92K PP 5W-20
09 Forester 95K M1HM 10W-30
01 Focus ZX3 118K PP 5W-20
96 Accord LX 104K T5 10W-30
95 318i
Re: 5W-20 With Lowest Volitility NOACK Rating? [Re: ZeeOSix] #4683956
03/04/18 11:08 AM
03/04/18 11:08 AM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 12,574
NH
supton Online content
supton  Online Content
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 12,574
NH
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
NOACK is measured by a defined test protocol and represents a snapshot of what you'd see with fresh oil.
What you're really asking is how volatility changes with age.
My guess is that it would decline since the most volatile fractions would be evaporated out early in the OCI leaving behind what should be a less volatile blend.
OTOH, fuel dilution might make for greater volatility with use. Fuel dilution is often measured using flash point, which would depend upon volatility.
I'd love to hear from SOJ on this.


That's what I'm thinking, a "high" Noack oil might settle down. Frequent oil changes with that oil would mean worse oil fumes for the PCV system to deal with.

However, in the past I'd swear that oil usage went up as the oil aged. That was 15-20 years ago on cheap conventional, so very likely not relevant here. But if Noack goes up with age, then frequent changes could fight the effects of a high Noack oil. Or that this oil just isn't worth using.


2011 Toyota Camry, base, 2.5L/6MT, 163k, hers
2010 Toyota Tundra DC, 4.6L/6AT, 144k, ours
1999 Toyota Camry LE, 2.2L/4AT, 190k, his
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