'82 Ford 200 (3.3L) I6 - Front Main / Timing Cover

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Hey Guys,

I think I've finally found the source of the oil drip under my car, and I'm not sure I'm understanding the information I'm finding on seals for the front of the crankshaft. I'm finding two different seals (see attached). Is this right? Is there a seal in the block, and another in the timing cover? Everywhere I read on replacing the 'front seal' says it's done at the timing cover, but the parts information I'm finding contradicts this. Any help would be appreciated.


 
Generic advice follows. When I want to order parts or to look at the order parts go in. I search for an exploded diagram. If you have a 302, its an old Ford. Find a forum for the car and ask for advice. I've been on an E 28 forum since 2K. If somebody has a problem, we fix it on the interweb.
grin2.gif
 
Yeah, I've been looking for conversations about this engine all morning. I keep finding people talking about their 1966 Mustangs with the I6, and their front main seal issues. I'v read through them, but am not giving them much credence, as I don't know if this engine was unchanged between 1966 and 1982. For all I know, they're not even related to each other. The 5.0 gets all the attention with this generation of Mustang, unfortunately. I could probably find 1,000 forum conversations about a front main seal on the V8.
 
I think it's the same seal. the different outer dia is still just rubber which will compress ever so slightly. just my opinion. there should not be an inner and outer seal.
 
I was thinking it was odd to have two seals. Getting it fixed next week, tired of it decorating my driveway. Thanks everyone for the input.
 
I've rarely seen a crankshaft seal leak, at least not that much. What I have seen leak a lot however is the oil pump seal to the block, especially if the timing cover is also the oil pump housing. Is that how it is arranged in this engine?
 
I had to replace that seal on my 82 3.3L when I replaced the timing set. Also had to get a harmonic balancer from a boneyard because there was a bad groove worn in mine. Something to watch for.I only remember one "front" seal not two.
 
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get the repair sleeve too.
otherwise its hit or miss on whether the new seal will ride in a different area of the balancer and avoid the groove worn into it.
 
Thanks for the tips everyone. Hoping this is the last issue for a while. Reality is starting to take hold that old cars are a rich man's hobby.
 
Originally Posted By: WylieCoyote
I was thinking it was odd to have two seals. Getting it fixed next week, tired of it decorating my driveway. Thanks everyone for the input.
If you have to get stuff like this repaired by pros, then, old cars aren't for you. Have you tried looking at Fairmont or Grenada sites?
 
Yeah, I'm getting the impression that if you don't have access to a lift, and don't have a 6-foot tall chest full of tools, and don't have a garage space you can dedicate to a week-long project, you've lost the battle.

I hate to give up and sell it, because it will likely be at a loss due to all the money I've poured in since purchase, but sometimes you have to draw a line and cut.

I haven't been on the Fairmount / Grenada sites, but have learned a bit from the Mustang sites and the 4-Eye / Foxbody groups on Facebook. But no matter how much I learn, I don't feel equipped to embark on projects of this size that can quickly escalate into more serious stuff. The engine has to be pulled to even work on the rear main seal, for instance. I'm not equipped for that.

We'll see how things go after the leak is fixed and they get the brand new A/C to work more than 3 days in a row.
 
Originally Posted By: Lubener
I had to replace that seal on my 82 3.3L when I replaced the timing set. Also had to get a harmonic balancer from a boneyard because there was a bad groove worn in mine. Something to watch for.I only remember one "front" seal not two.


Turned out to have no groove in the harmonic balancer. They replaced the timing set while they were in there, as the chain had more slack than they were comfortable with. Water pump gasket replaced as well. Found the breach in the A/C suction hose and fixed that, so I have A/C again (awesome, since the system is brand new).

Nice to finally have her potty trained. Lots of spots to remove from the driveway.

One more piece of evidence that I may be in over my head: Planned to devote all last weekend to installing new struts, shocks, front brake rotors (bearings and all) and pads and shoes. I know how to do all these items, but when you don't have the right tools, you can quickly be stopped in your tracks. The nut on top of both struts was siezed. Apparently you can do that job all day long when you have access to compressed air and an air impact wrench. UGH.

Took it to a local shop to get all that done. She rides and stops much better now. Everything was original. 35 year-old struts are a pitiful sight.

No more issues for a while, please.
 
Originally Posted By: WylieCoyote
Originally Posted By: Lubener
I had to replace that seal on my 82 3.3L when I replaced the timing set. Also had to get a harmonic balancer from a boneyard because there was a bad groove worn in mine. Something to watch for.I only remember one "front" seal not two.


Turned out to have no groove in the harmonic balancer. They replaced the timing set while they were in there, as the chain had more slack than they were comfortable with. Water pump gasket replaced as well. Found the breach in the A/C suction hose and fixed that, so I have A/C again (awesome, since the system is brand new).

Nice to finally have her potty trained. Lots of spots to remove from the driveway.

One more piece of evidence that I may be in over my head: Planned to devote all last weekend to installing new struts, shocks, front brake rotors (bearings and all) and pads and shoes. I know how to do all these items, but when you don't have the right tools, you can quickly be stopped in your tracks. The nut on top of both struts was siezed. Apparently you can do that job all day long when you have access to compressed air and an air impact wrench. UGH.

Took it to a local shop to get all that done. She rides and stops much better now. Everything was original. 35 year-old struts are a pitiful sight.

No more issues for a while, please.


ahh just replied to your other post! but I'll tell you as I was reading I thought "hmm.. did he get those struts out easily?" then continued reading.. NOPE! hahaa.. I remember things on that 82 that were needing a shop or at least a garage with air tools! Lots of those nuts/bolts are tightened to over 100ft/lbs it seems! Not like the modern cars that are half that torque spec.

wow you really should post up pictures of those 35 year old struts! This is the detailed, oriented BITOG forum, should've expected we'd ask that one!

good news that it was just simple as an a/c line, so nice to hear! Should be sealed up/functioning for a long time now. But it's amazing how all that original stuff was still soldiering on.. wow.

I'm really happy for ya! That now it's all up to working condition, and working well. Anything new on the EGR?
 
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I actually thought about the EGR conversation this morning on my way to work. Normally, all it needs is 5-6 minutes running on high-ish idle before heading out, and it's fine. This morning, it actually died in the middle of an intersection while trying to accelerate out into traffic, even after the driveway warm-up. It's never done that before. I've had some hesitation in the past when not quite warmed up, but never this bad. It stumbled at the next two stop lights before returning to normal. I had to wonder while struggling with this if the EGR is now trying to fail.
 
Originally Posted By: WylieCoyote
I actually thought about the EGR conversation this morning on my way to work. Normally, all it needs is 5-6 minutes running on high-ish idle before heading out, and it's fine. This morning, it actually died in the middle of an intersection while trying to accelerate out into traffic, even after the driveway warm-up. It's never done that before. I've had some hesitation in the past when not quite warmed up, but never this bad. It stumbled at the next two stop lights before returning to normal. I had to wonder while struggling with this if the EGR is now trying to fail.


I re-read my previous post and wanted to clear it up, I was only laughing since you experienced the same exact things I experienced in the past with regard to the shocks. Laughing because it was similar, not because it was difficult to remove.. had to make sure I said that..

ok onto the hesitation, it could be the EGR, but it could also be what happened to me. The rubber diaphragm in the accelerator pump of the carburetor hardened up due to ethanol in the gas. That caused the car to surge/buck and die under the right circumstances. Eventually it got so bad I was feathering the gas just to get to the shop. I don't know if I mentioned it before, but it was something I was meaning to tell ya about. I was thinking about your engine the other day, since you brought back all those memories! That was another one of them.

Oh and the rear main oil seal leak, I had that too. I didn't replace it as it was starting to leak right when I sold it. No worries, the guy that bought mine only wanted it for the frame/shell. He was rebuilding everything! Dropping a 5.0 into it, etc.. I should've kept in touch to see how that went, but I was focusing on other things at the time.

but back to the surging, it's possible that gas with ethanol has eroded that rubber diaphragm, something to check out. It's not hard to get to, so it shouldn't be expensive. I remember back then 20-30min and the mechanic was done. No more surging after that.

You can test the EGR system, really simple.. Just remove the vacuum line to the EGR (plug it up) and apply vacuum to the EGR. Engine should cough and die from what I remember. If you have the Haynes repair manual they should be able to tell you how to test it, if I'm remembering it wrong.
 
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