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#4681949 - 03/02/18 03:58 AM How hot do valve stem seals get?
Hemispheres Offline


Registered: 01/14/17
Posts: 381
Loc: Virginia
Iím wondering how much heat valve stem seals can withstand. Iím asking because a machine shop screwed up my lower intake manifold and also gave me bad advice which resulted in me needing to use JB Weld on a $600 set of heads I had recently purchased. Iíve got the highheat epoxy which is rated for 800 degrees and the area in question is close to the water jacket. Before I take a chance of ruining my engine with a broken piece of JB Weld I want to place my heads in the oven at 550 degrees for a few hours and see how the epoxy holds up. I cleaned the area with denatured alcohol and carb cleaner and also filed it down before applying the putty, so Iím keeping my fingers crossed. Just wondering if I need to yank the seals off beforehand or not.


Edited by Hemispheres (03/02/18 03:59 AM)
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#4681950 - 03/02/18 04:03 AM Re: How hot do valve stem seals get? [Re: Hemispheres]
Hemispheres Offline


Registered: 01/14/17
Posts: 381
Loc: Virginia
Theyíre Viton seals btw.
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#4681968 - 03/02/18 05:41 AM Re: How hot do valve stem seals get? [Re: Hemispheres]
demarpaint Offline


Registered: 07/03/05
Posts: 29758
Loc: NY
I really don't have an answer, but I will say this. If you have any intentions of suing the shop that allegedly ruined your heads, JB Welding them will not help your case. I'd leave them alone until after you sue, if you are considering doing so. If not good luck....
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#4681977 - 03/02/18 06:06 AM Re: How hot do valve stem seals get? [Re: Hemispheres]
Trav Offline


Registered: 11/20/06
Posts: 18872
Loc: MA, Mittelfranken.de
Picture? On a head I would have it welded and machined at a good shop. JB weld as a long term fix on internal parts isn't holding up well long term. Is this both heads? Why did you feel the need to give performance machined heads to this clown?
I would probably get another head if its only one that's damaged and another manifold and leave them in peace.

I ship my stuff out because there is not one decent machine shop in this area anymore, there were lots of them when I was young that were run by real experienced engine machinist but those days are gone.

Edit: Viton seals can operate at 400f constant up to 700f short term, the valve stem in the region of the seal is probably around 250f. The face of the exhaust valve is many times hotter but the temp of the stem drops dramatically once it enter the guide and is being cooled with oil in the seal area.


Edited by Trav (03/02/18 06:15 AM)
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#4681980 - 03/02/18 06:16 AM Re: How hot do valve stem seals get? [Re: Hemispheres]
demarpaint Offline


Registered: 07/03/05
Posts: 29758
Loc: NY
I agree with Trav, I'd ditch the head/heads and start with new, and find a competent shop. You could be out a lot more than you already are using those heads if your patch job lets go.
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#4682023 - 03/02/18 07:38 AM Re: How hot do valve stem seals get? [Re: Hemispheres]
Smoky14 Offline


Registered: 04/23/03
Posts: 1337
Loc: Nowhere NM
Without a stable plate to bolt it too I advise not taking a head to that temp. Warping a head is too easy to do.

Smoky
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#4682025 - 03/02/18 07:43 AM Re: How hot do valve stem seals get? [Re: Hemispheres]
Hemispheres Offline


Registered: 01/14/17
Posts: 381
Loc: Virginia
Theyíre stock reconditioned cylinder heads. Itís the inlet where the lower transitions to the head. Shop told me to open the port slighty wider than the gasket which I later found was bunk. Itís only 1/2 to 3/4 into the port itself and all Iím doing is port matching the opening aside from getting rid of any casting marks.
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#4682034 - 03/02/18 08:03 AM Re: How hot do valve stem seals get? [Re: Hemispheres]
09_GXP Offline


Registered: 12/14/10
Posts: 430
Loc: Indianapolis, IN
Former cylinder head development engineer here. I just sent you a PM with my email. Send me some pics and details and I'll do my best to help out.
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#4682038 - 03/02/18 08:16 AM Re: How hot do valve stem seals get? [Re: 09_GXP]
Langanobob Offline


Registered: 04/24/09
Posts: 208
Loc: Reno, Nevada
Originally Posted By: 09_GXP
Former cylinder head development engineer here. I just sent you a PM with my email. Send me some pics and details and I'll do my best to help out.


How about posting tne pics here and keeping tne discussion public so we can all learn something?

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#4682048 - 03/02/18 08:23 AM Re: How hot do valve stem seals get? [Re: Hemispheres]
Hemispheres Offline


Registered: 01/14/17
Posts: 381
Loc: Virginia


The shaping is not perfect. I was told as long as the gasket seals itís all ok. However the above picture is a gasket match, Iíve since learned cleaning up the port entrances and making it all uniform, then opening the lower to be slightly smaller than the head is best. The head is roughly 1.92 x 0.96 inches, many 3800 modders recommend 1.9x0.9 inches is the best for the lower. Iíve also read online that quite a few modders use JB Weld or equivalent putty to reshape intake ports.


Edited by Hemispheres (03/02/18 08:30 AM)
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#4682054 - 03/02/18 08:31 AM Re: How hot do valve stem seals get? [Re: Hemispheres]
Hemispheres Offline


Registered: 01/14/17
Posts: 381
Loc: Virginia


This is now. Intentionally used too much to give me more wiggle room.

Itís just this one port. Finishing it first then taking measurements to duplicate in other areas.


Edited by Hemispheres (03/02/18 08:35 AM)
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#4682069 - 03/02/18 08:52 AM Re: How hot do valve stem seals get? [Re: Hemispheres]
SteveSRT8 Offline


Registered: 10/10/08
Posts: 18953
Loc: Sunny Florida
OMG, please do not rig it up with any epoxy! Bad decision. Take them to a quality shop and they will weld then grind to shape. That is the only hope for permanent repair.
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#4682077 - 03/02/18 09:06 AM Re: How hot do valve stem seals get? [Re: Hemispheres]
Hemispheres Offline


Registered: 01/14/17
Posts: 381
Loc: Virginia
Only welding place in town is good with the guys who messed up my lower. After taking it back once and later finding tools marks under the paint, on top of not getting all services agreed upon I left a review simply stating ports werenít uniform and Id be contacting my CC company. Got cussed out, threatened and harassed all in one paragraph. Letís just say Iíve added additional reviews so thatís out of the question. Only other option is salvage yard but all those 3800s have been overheated so thatís a no go. Guess I could grab an EBay head. The JB weld chips when hit but I donít see how the high heat will fall apart from heat and vibration. The main issue brought up was expansion and contraction but itís an Iron head and if it withstands 800 degrees it souls be ok. I could be wrong tho.


Edited by Hemispheres (03/02/18 09:09 AM)
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2009 Buick LaCrosse (3800 Series III) - 137,000 miles.
PZ Plat HM/Mobil 1 HM
Bosch/Purolator/Mobil filters

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#4682129 - 03/02/18 10:01 AM Re: How hot do valve stem seals get? [Re: Hemispheres]
NYEngineer Offline


Registered: 12/12/06
Posts: 1570
Loc: NY, NY

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#4682133 - 03/02/18 10:07 AM Re: How hot do valve stem seals get? [Re: Hemispheres]
NYEngineer Offline


Registered: 12/12/06
Posts: 1570
Loc: NY, NY
Bummer. Just noticed it's out of stock.

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