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How hot do valve stem seals get? #4681949
03/02/18 03:58 AM
03/02/18 03:58 AM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 490
Virginia
Hemispheres Offline OP
Hemispheres  Offline OP
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 490
Virginia
Iím wondering how much heat valve stem seals can withstand. Iím asking because a machine shop screwed up my lower intake manifold and also gave me bad advice which resulted in me needing to use JB Weld on a $600 set of heads I had recently purchased. Iíve got the highheat epoxy which is rated for 800 degrees and the area in question is close to the water jacket. Before I take a chance of ruining my engine with a broken piece of JB Weld I want to place my heads in the oven at 550 degrees for a few hours and see how the epoxy holds up. I cleaned the area with denatured alcohol and carb cleaner and also filed it down before applying the putty, so Iím keeping my fingers crossed. Just wondering if I need to yank the seals off beforehand or not.

Last edited by Hemispheres; 03/02/18 03:59 AM.

2009 Buick LaCrosse (3800 Series III) - 137,000 miles.
PZ Plat HM/Mobil 1 HM
Bosch/Purolator/Mobil filters
Re: How hot do valve stem seals get? [Re: Hemispheres] #4681950
03/02/18 04:03 AM
03/02/18 04:03 AM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 490
Virginia
Hemispheres Offline OP
Hemispheres  Offline OP
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 490
Virginia
Theyíre Viton seals btw.


2009 Buick LaCrosse (3800 Series III) - 137,000 miles.
PZ Plat HM/Mobil 1 HM
Bosch/Purolator/Mobil filters
Re: How hot do valve stem seals get? [Re: Hemispheres] #4681968
03/02/18 05:41 AM
03/02/18 05:41 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 30,990
NY
demarpaint Offline
demarpaint  Offline
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 30,990
NY
I really don't have an answer, but I will say this. If you have any intentions of suing the shop that allegedly ruined your heads, JB Welding them will not help your case. I'd leave them alone until after you sue, if you are considering doing so. If not good luck....


God Bless Our Troops

Re: How hot do valve stem seals get? [Re: Hemispheres] #4681977
03/02/18 06:06 AM
03/02/18 06:06 AM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 20,593
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Trav Offline
Trav  Offline
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 20,593
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Picture? On a head I would have it welded and machined at a good shop. JB weld as a long term fix on internal parts isn't holding up well long term. Is this both heads? Why did you feel the need to give performance machined heads to this clown?
I would probably get another head if its only one that's damaged and another manifold and leave them in peace.

I ship my stuff out because there is not one decent machine shop in this area anymore, there were lots of them when I was young that were run by real experienced engine machinist but those days are gone.

Edit: Viton seals can operate at 400f constant up to 700f short term, the valve stem in the region of the seal is probably around 250f. The face of the exhaust valve is many times hotter but the temp of the stem drops dramatically once it enter the guide and is being cooled with oil in the seal area.

Last edited by Trav; 03/02/18 06:15 AM.

ASE L1, Master. Deutsch Meisterbrief.
Re: How hot do valve stem seals get? [Re: Hemispheres] #4681980
03/02/18 06:16 AM
03/02/18 06:16 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 30,990
NY
demarpaint Offline
demarpaint  Offline
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 30,990
NY
I agree with Trav, I'd ditch the head/heads and start with new, and find a competent shop. You could be out a lot more than you already are using those heads if your patch job lets go.


God Bless Our Troops

Re: How hot do valve stem seals get? [Re: Hemispheres] #4682023
03/02/18 07:38 AM
03/02/18 07:38 AM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,370
Nowhere NM
Smoky14 Offline
Smoky14  Offline
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,370
Nowhere NM
Without a stable plate to bolt it too I advise not taking a head to that temp. Warping a head is too easy to do.

Smoky


99 Acura 2.3CL 5speed MT
12 Ford Fusion 2.5S 6speed MT
05 Suzuki Bandit 1200.
Re: How hot do valve stem seals get? [Re: Hemispheres] #4682025
03/02/18 07:43 AM
03/02/18 07:43 AM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 490
Virginia
Hemispheres Offline OP
Hemispheres  Offline OP
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 490
Virginia
Theyíre stock reconditioned cylinder heads. Itís the inlet where the lower transitions to the head. Shop told me to open the port slighty wider than the gasket which I later found was bunk. Itís only 1/2 to 3/4 into the port itself and all Iím doing is port matching the opening aside from getting rid of any casting marks.


2009 Buick LaCrosse (3800 Series III) - 137,000 miles.
PZ Plat HM/Mobil 1 HM
Bosch/Purolator/Mobil filters
Re: How hot do valve stem seals get? [Re: Hemispheres] #4682034
03/02/18 08:03 AM
03/02/18 08:03 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 436
Indianapolis, IN
09_GXP Offline
09_GXP  Offline
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 436
Indianapolis, IN
Former cylinder head development engineer here. I just sent you a PM with my email. Send me some pics and details and I'll do my best to help out.


2017 Miata Global Cup Car #02 - Castol A3/B4 5w30 w/ OEM Fitler
2017 Miata RF - PP 0w20 w/ M1 Filter
2015 F-150 2.7L Ecoboost - PPPP 5w30 w/ MC
Re: How hot do valve stem seals get? [Re: 09_GXP] #4682038
03/02/18 08:16 AM
03/02/18 08:16 AM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 242
Reno, Nevada
Langanobob Offline
Langanobob  Offline
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 242
Reno, Nevada
Originally Posted By: 09_GXP
Former cylinder head development engineer here. I just sent you a PM with my email. Send me some pics and details and I'll do my best to help out.


How about posting tne pics here and keeping tne discussion public so we can all learn something?

Re: How hot do valve stem seals get? [Re: Hemispheres] #4682048
03/02/18 08:23 AM
03/02/18 08:23 AM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 490
Virginia
Hemispheres Offline OP
Hemispheres  Offline OP
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 490
Virginia


The shaping is not perfect. I was told as long as the gasket seals itís all ok. However the above picture is a gasket match, Iíve since learned cleaning up the port entrances and making it all uniform, then opening the lower to be slightly smaller than the head is best. The head is roughly 1.92 x 0.96 inches, many 3800 modders recommend 1.9x0.9 inches is the best for the lower. Iíve also read online that quite a few modders use JB Weld or equivalent putty to reshape intake ports.

Last edited by Hemispheres; 03/02/18 08:30 AM.

2009 Buick LaCrosse (3800 Series III) - 137,000 miles.
PZ Plat HM/Mobil 1 HM
Bosch/Purolator/Mobil filters
Re: How hot do valve stem seals get? [Re: Hemispheres] #4682054
03/02/18 08:31 AM
03/02/18 08:31 AM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 490
Virginia
Hemispheres Offline OP
Hemispheres  Offline OP
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 490
Virginia


This is now. Intentionally used too much to give me more wiggle room.

Itís just this one port. Finishing it first then taking measurements to duplicate in other areas.

Last edited by Hemispheres; 03/02/18 08:35 AM.

2009 Buick LaCrosse (3800 Series III) - 137,000 miles.
PZ Plat HM/Mobil 1 HM
Bosch/Purolator/Mobil filters
Re: How hot do valve stem seals get? [Re: Hemispheres] #4682069
03/02/18 08:52 AM
03/02/18 08:52 AM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 19,210
Sunny Florida
SteveSRT8 Offline
SteveSRT8  Offline
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 19,210
Sunny Florida
OMG, please do not rig it up with any epoxy! Bad decision. Take them to a quality shop and they will weld then grind to shape. That is the only hope for permanent repair.


"In a democracy, dissent is an act of faith."
J. William Fulbright
Best ET-12.79 @ 111 mph
4340 pounds, Street tires
Just like we go to Publix
Re: How hot do valve stem seals get? [Re: Hemispheres] #4682077
03/02/18 09:06 AM
03/02/18 09:06 AM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 490
Virginia
Hemispheres Offline OP
Hemispheres  Offline OP
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 490
Virginia
Only welding place in town is good with the guys who messed up my lower. After taking it back once and later finding tools marks under the paint, on top of not getting all services agreed upon I left a review simply stating ports werenít uniform and Id be contacting my CC company. Got cussed out, threatened and harassed all in one paragraph. Letís just say Iíve added additional reviews so thatís out of the question. Only other option is salvage yard but all those 3800s have been overheated so thatís a no go. Guess I could grab an EBay head. The JB weld chips when hit but I donít see how the high heat will fall apart from heat and vibration. The main issue brought up was expansion and contraction but itís an Iron head and if it withstands 800 degrees it souls be ok. I could be wrong tho.

Last edited by Hemispheres; 03/02/18 09:09 AM.

2009 Buick LaCrosse (3800 Series III) - 137,000 miles.
PZ Plat HM/Mobil 1 HM
Bosch/Purolator/Mobil filters
Re: How hot do valve stem seals get? [Re: Hemispheres] #4682129
03/02/18 10:01 AM
03/02/18 10:01 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,789
NY, NY
NYEngineer Offline
NYEngineer  Offline
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,789
NY, NY

Re: How hot do valve stem seals get? [Re: Hemispheres] #4682133
03/02/18 10:07 AM
03/02/18 10:07 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,789
NY, NY
NYEngineer Offline
NYEngineer  Offline
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,789
NY, NY
Bummer. Just noticed it's out of stock.

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