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#4681362 - 03/01/18 09:25 AM Nissan MTF 75w-85 GL4
Smash209 Offline


Registered: 02/28/18
Posts: 34
Loc: Perpetual Winter USA
I wanted to ask if anyone has done a VOI on this fluid, and also offer to pay to have one done if not. I would love to bolster the great list of MTL's by viscosity you have going.

I have just received 3 qts to change the manual transmission fluid on my 2007 Sentra. This is Nissan part number 999MP-MTF00NP.

The owners manual calls for "ELF XT4447 M+ 75W-80 or API GL-4, Viscosity SAE 75W-80" however I have noticed later models of the same 6 speed transmission call for the Nissan MTF 75w-85 fluid. The dealer doesn't even stock the other grade anymore so I think this fluid essentially replaced the other one. If anyone has any info otherwise please let me know!

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#4681469 - 03/01/18 11:58 AM Re: Nissan MTF 75w-85 GL4 [Re: Smash209]
Kamele0N Offline


Registered: 02/09/15
Posts: 2133
Loc: Slovenia EU
_________________________
2011 Hyundai i30 1.4 CVVT Shell Helix Ultra 5w40
1997 Toyota Landcruiser KZJ95 3.0 TD Shell Rimula R6M 10w40

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#4681551 - 03/01/18 02:24 PM Re: Nissan MTF 75w-85 GL4 [Re: Smash209]
Marco620 Offline


Registered: 02/25/14
Posts: 2263
Loc: Kansan,1911 45ACP fan
Redline makes a 75w85 mix for Mitsubishi MR Evolution.
_________________________
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#4681662 - 03/01/18 05:37 PM Re: Nissan MTF 75w-85 GL4 [Re: Smash209]
Smash209 Offline


Registered: 02/28/18
Posts: 34
Loc: Perpetual Winter USA
I know that there are many options out there that would work. I was considering going with Syncromesh as I have had great results with it in the past in various "lightweight" applications. Also considered Redline either regular MTL or the new MT-85 as Marco mentioned. The Ravenol fluid says GL-5 as well so I'd be leery of that.

At the end of the day I haven't been having much in the way of drivability issues (except the first few shifts in extreme cold), the car has 175k on it and I figure I will just stick with what I think is in the tranny now.

I am curious about this fluid any how it might compare to the other options though, hence the question about a VOI if anyone is interested.

Also I do see that the company ELF does make MTL (75w-80) for Renault cars and I wonder if that was the original fill and spec for the Nissan.
http://catalog.elf.com/en/products/nq7/TRANSELF-NFJ-75W-80

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#4681718 - 03/01/18 06:39 PM Re: Nissan MTF 75w-85 GL4 [Re: Smash209]
FowVay Offline


Registered: 06/02/02
Posts: 2689
Loc: Southeastern USA
I am presently using Ravenol MTF-2 75W-80 GL-4 oil in my Nissan Frontier transmission. The specified viscosity is 75W-85 but the transmission shifts horribly when cold so I am trying the lower viscosity fluid just as an attempt at improved shift quality.

I will run this out to 50,000 miles and then either refill with the same or possibly try Redline MT-85.
_________________________
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#4681804 - 03/01/18 08:18 PM Re: Nissan MTF 75w-85 GL4 [Re: Smash209]
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 19153
Loc: Iowegia - USA
I'd go with either Redline MTL 75W80 or Amsoil MTF.

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#4681979 - 03/02/18 06:14 AM Re: Nissan MTF 75w-85 GL4 [Re: Smash209]
zeng Offline


Registered: 09/01/15
Posts: 2214
Loc: Malaysia
Originally Posted By: Smash209
The owners manual calls for "ELF XT4447 M+ 75W-80 or API GL-4, Viscosity SAE 75W-80" however I have noticed later models of the same 6 speed transmission call for the Nissan MTF 75w-85 fluid.

This is another instance of there isn't such a thing as 'correct' viscoisty grade for a certain components like a specific manual trans or differentials as often misleadingly advocated in this forum.

Quote:
The Ravenol fluid says GL-5 as well so I'd be leery of that.

I find your basis of being leery of this Ravenol 75W85 GL5 (and GL4) having ASTM D130 of 1b as unfounded and irrational ..

.... as the now obsolete GL4 specification for ASTM D 130 was a far more inferior 3a/3b?

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#4682407 - 03/02/18 02:54 PM Re: Nissan MTF 75w-85 GL4 [Re: zeng]
Smash209 Offline


Registered: 02/28/18
Posts: 34
Loc: Perpetual Winter USA
Originally Posted By: zeng

I find your basis of being leery of this Ravenol 75W85 GL5 (and GL4) having ASTM D130 of 1b as unfounded and irrational ..
.... as the now obsolete GL4 specification for ASTM D 130 was a far more inferior 3a/3b?


I stand corrected... I was not aware of this copper strip test. The Ravenol MTF-1 looks like a pretty good fluid. And the MTF-2 formulation is rated 1a and lower viscosity 75w-80 as FowVay mentioned.

Originally Posted By: FowVay
I am trying the lower viscosity fluid just as an attempt at improved shift quality.


How is the MTF-2 fluid so far? Any idea what the cSt is at @ 100C?

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#4682451 - 03/02/18 03:54 PM Re: Nissan MTF 75w-85 GL4 [Re: zeng]
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 19153
Loc: Iowegia - USA
Originally Posted By: zeng

This is another instance of there isn't such a thing as 'correct' viscoisty grade for a certain components like a specific manual trans or differentials as often misleadingly advocated in this forum.

The Ravenol fluid says GL-5 as well so I'd be leery of that....
I find your basis of being leery of this Ravenol 75W85 GL5 (and GL4) having ASTM D130 of 1b as unfounded and irrational ..



The only thing misleading and irrational in this Forum/thread are your responses.

You don't seem to have a clue wrt the relation of gearbox internals and their lubricant requirements.


Edited by MolaKule (03/02/18 04:22 PM)

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#4682504 - 03/02/18 04:50 PM Re: Nissan MTF 75w-85 GL4 [Re: Smash209]
Smash209 Offline


Registered: 02/28/18
Posts: 34
Loc: Perpetual Winter USA
I did read something about the GL-4 spec being antiquated and that there are plenty of GL-5 fluid that will not eat soft medals, so I understand where a copper strip test might be useful in that regard.

I agree though that viscosity ratings do matter quite a bit.

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#4682768 - 03/02/18 09:22 PM Re: Nissan MTF 75w-85 GL4 [Re: Smash209]
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 19153
Loc: Iowegia - USA
Originally Posted By: Smash209
I did read something about the GL-4 spec being antiquated and that there are plenty of GL-5 fluid that will not eat soft medals, so I understand where a copper strip test might be useful in that regard.

I agree though that viscosity ratings do matter quite a bit.


True, while the GL-4 spec is considered obsolete, there are still tests that we can do on gear lubricants to see if they qualify to an equivalent GL-4 load and wear rating such as the tests listed here:

http://www.intertek.com/automotive/lri-gear-oil/

and that's what additive suppliers do to qualify their additives with a specified set of base oils.


MTFs must provide:


Synchronizer friction material compatibility

Corrosion protection (Rust and Metal Inhibitors)

High thermal stability

Shear stability

Anti-Wear chemistry as described below.

As far as copper alloys such as brass and bronze synchronizer components, the new MT additive formulations do not contain EP additives as they did in days of yore. But GL-5/MT1 differential lubes do contain high levels of EP additives because differentials carry high loads at various gear angles.

Today's dedicated MT formulations contain additive packages with an Anti-Wear (AW) additive chemistry consisting of a Multi-functional phosphite component, with a small amount of ZDDP.




Edited by MolaKule (03/02/18 09:29 PM)

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#4682965 - 03/03/18 06:57 AM Re: Nissan MTF 75w-85 GL4 [Re: Smash209]
Kamele0N Offline


Registered: 02/09/15
Posts: 2133
Loc: Slovenia EU
With other words smile modern MT fluids dont have such a strong sulphur odour anymore (that is what I have noticed)
_________________________
2011 Hyundai i30 1.4 CVVT Shell Helix Ultra 5w40
1997 Toyota Landcruiser KZJ95 3.0 TD Shell Rimula R6M 10w40

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#4682983 - 03/03/18 07:28 AM Re: Nissan MTF 75w-85 GL4 [Re: Smash209]
zeng Offline


Registered: 09/01/15
Posts: 2214
Loc: Malaysia
Originally Posted By: Smash209
I stand corrected... I was not aware of this copper strip test. The Ravenol MTF-1 looks like a pretty good fluid. And the MTF-2 formulation is rated 1a and lower viscosity 75w-80 as FowVay mentioned.

How is the MTF-2 fluid so far? Any idea what the cSt is at @ 100C?


This Ravenol MTF-2 75W80 would have typically similar [email protected]*C of 47 cSt and [email protected]*C of 8.5 cSt in an Elf Tranself NFJ 75W80 linked by you,


...... which are generally thinner than a Ravenol MTF-1 75W85.
A typical 75W85 from Castrol Syntrans has a thicker [email protected]*C of 64.6 cSt and [email protected]*C of 11.9 cSt,and hence higher MOFT across full range of operating temperatures,


There isn't such a thing as 'correct' viscosity grade oil, but an oil with a higher MOFT at operating temperatures would offer you higher margin of safety in terms of components protection, other things like add pack being equal.

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#4682994 - 03/03/18 07:46 AM Re: Nissan MTF 75w-85 GL4 [Re: MolaKule]
zeng Offline


Registered: 09/01/15
Posts: 2214
Loc: Malaysia
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Originally Posted By: zeng

This is another instance of there isn't such a thing as 'correct' viscoisty grade for a certain components like a specific manual trans or differentials as often misleadingly advocated in this forum.

The Ravenol fluid says GL-5 as well so I'd be leery of that....
I find your basis of being leery of this Ravenol 75W85 GL5 (and GL4) having ASTM D130 of 1b as unfounded and irrational ..



The only thing misleading and irrational in this Forum/thread are your responses.

You don't seem to have a clue wrt the relation of gearbox internals and their lubricant requirements.

Pl abstain from being judgemental on other's 'cluelessness' of whatever ......and getting personal ....
which is uncalled for, and let's get back to the science of this thread!
Yes, the post#1 has demonstrated beyong doubt, there is no such thing as a 'correct' viscosity oil grade.

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#4683152 - 03/03/18 11:24 AM Re: Nissan MTF 75w-85 GL4 [Re: zeng]
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 19153
Loc: Iowegia - USA
Originally Posted By: zeng


..Pl abstain from being judgemental on other's 'cluelessness' of whatever ......and getting personal ....
which is uncalled for, and let's get back to the science of this thread!
Yes, the post#1 has demonstrated beyong doubt, there is no such thing as a 'correct' viscosity oil grade.


This thread has shown no such thing. Again, your comments consistently show you are clueless (how about "uneducated and uninformed") regarding the mechanics of gearing and transmissions, and their associated lubrication requirements.

My "tell-it-like-it-is" comments are based on the science of formulating lubricants for the last 30 years, so I think I am qualified to point out errors, misinformation, and downright incorrect information.



Edited by MolaKule (03/03/18 11:27 AM)

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