What are we using for chain lube?

[Jaybird]

Slowdave,
What I stated goes for both standard and ring chains.
And the word "permanent" as a discriptive for the pre-injected lube is a bit of a misnomer.
The lube between the pin and bushing will in fact become consumed.

Just because a wax dries up and keeeps anything from getting to the friction areas of the chain does not mean it is protecting the friction points.
I have found chain wax to be one of the worst chain lubes that can be used. In lubricity tests, chain wax is a miserable failure.
Many waxes will set up before any lube has reached the friction area.

On a ring chain, it is even more important to not have any sort of sticky, gooey crap on the chain. Waxes and thcik lubes full of tackifier are only inviting dirt and debris to have a feast on your rings.

Again, a penetrating dry-film is the absolute best lubricant that can be used on a chain.

 

[badnews]

This stuff is getting good reviews, it is something that is kinda new ..... and I am going to start to use it.

It gets great reviews from motocycle mags that test it out.


It is O ring safe.

It is clean, easy to find, Lowe's sells it and it is resonable priced.

http://www.webbikeworld.com/t2/motorcycle-chain-lube/dupont-teflon-chain-lube.htm

[ August 06, 2005, 08:11 AM: Message edited by: badnews ]

 

[SlowDave]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jaybird:
Slowdave,
What I stated goes for both standard and ring chains.
And the word "permanent" as a discriptive for the pre-injected lube is a bit of a misnomer.
The lube between the pin and bushing will in fact become consumed.

---

I respectfully disagree. Lube in a chain roller pin, sealed by o-rings on either end, cannot be "consumed." It can leak out, but law of conservation of mass says it can't just go away. There are significantly worse applications for sealing, even by o-rings, and I believe it is very reasonable to believe that o-ring chains can hold their lube inside for the life of the chain.

I do believe that when it comes to the failure of that o-ring seal, it will fail to hold lube in well before it will allow lube to get INTO the pin/roller area.

My $.02, worth maybe not quite that much,
Dave

 

[Jaybird]

Dave,
If the rings can hold the lube in for the life of the chain, then tell me....what is the life of the chain?

Using your logic, if the rings never fail, the chain should last forever.

The rings may last, but the grease won't. Due to the fact that the lubricant in the grease will be consumed from work (for lack of a better term).
Also a small amount of the preinjected grease is consumed by the rings that thirst for the oil.
You have heard of oxidation, yes?

If you ever do take a ring chain apart that has reached it's service limit, yet still in good physical condition, you will see that all that's left in the pin/bushing area is hard soap base.

The life of the chain is dependent on how long the preinjected grease will last.

[ August 06, 2005, 06:41 PM: Message edited by: Jaybird ]

 

[Mackelroy]

((You have heard of oxidation, yes?))

I've seen the same thing, it's litium grease they use I believe and turns to powder over time. My master links I use Belray waterproof always in good shape on those pins. IMO using Belray water proof grease from the manufacture would lifen the oring chain, substantially.

 

[blano]

I wish Honda hadnt stopped selling the red can chain lube. That was the best stuff I ever used and wasnt messy at all

 

[rokky]

I recently did 6000 kilos of biking. The weather was often wet with lots of road grime in places. PJ 1 and RK oring lube washed off soon.

I resorted to soaking the chain nightly with wd-40 mainly to clean the chain. Not only did it clean well but it also resisted water and grime well the next day.

On dry days I gave the chain a light spray nightly. After 500 miles or more the chain still looked well lubricated.

I'm not buying any more fancy chain lubes. Wd-40 is easy to apply, little fling, and its dirt cheap. Most importantly - it works well in wet conditions.

 

[badnews]

There is talk that WD-40 a solvent will attack the grease in O rings drying out the grease and turning it into a hard cake substance .

I use it to clean stuff, almost never as a lube -- your chain may last with WD-40 -- what about the sprocket ???

WD-40 is ok for bicycles not MC chain.

JMO

 

[mburnickas]

I use PJ1 Chain Lube (Blue Label) on my
GSX-R1100. Works great and do not fly off. Nice and clean rear wheel! Have almost 16K miles on OEM sprocket and chain..Works well for $6.99 and last for years.

 

[rokky]

If you search the forum badnews, there is an excellent thread on wd-40. One fella ran tests on orings. Wd -40 had no detrimental effects on the orings.

If wd-40 does not damage the chain how will it damage the sprockets?

 

[Ethan]

I'm weird, I recently added a scottoiler to my bike, but haven't yet been able to test it on a long ride.

Ethan

Edited: My brain failed its post test when I woke up this morning.

[ August 25, 2005, 02:27 PM: Message edited by: Ethan ]

 

[rokky]

You may not like the mess.

 

[cos]

badnews,

Thanks for the link to the DuPont chain lube, I didn't know about it. I've been alternating between Bel-Ray Super Clean Chain Lube and Silkolene Pro Chain for yrs now and like both of those products. My SV650 chain has 9K on it, looks great and spins quite easily when up on the rearstand. This year I got a Grunge Brush - man what a time saver!!!

Dip it Kerosene then scrub all 4 sides of the chain clean in less than a minute. I then use a rag to wipe off all the loosened crud/dry the chain.

 

[Jaybird]

WD-40 may not attack the rubber of the rings, but if the ring has any other sort of defect from trail or road hazzards, then the WD-40 can easily penetrate into the pin/bushing area. It will then use it's solvent to break down the pre-injected lubricant, decreasing the life of the chain and as a result, the sprockets.

If WD-40 had anything good in it that the solvent carried into the friction area, it would be a differnt story. But as it is, it carries little of nothing that is acceptable to lube a roller chain of any sort.

 

[rokky]

If there were a defect in the oring from trail or road hazzards, water would be your biggest enemy.

Too many people are using wd-40 as chain lube and getting good life out of their chains.

My experience has been positive with it under adverse conditions.

Have you tried it yourself? Just to make a blanket statement with nothing to back it up seems unfair.

http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=9;t=000334#000000

 

[Jaybird]

rokky,
I am into chains. sprockets, and lubes as part of my advocation. I am also an avid motorcycle rider.
I know more about WD-40 than most folks do, as I have been involved with it down to the actual ingredients and testing of the product both for lubricity and material compatability.

Yes, water can, and will, be your enemy if you have damaged rings. But what I explained about WD-40 being trouble for damaged rings also applies. Also, not very likely, but very possible that it CAN effect the suppleness of the rings, depending on their construction.
As far as lubricity goes, WD-40 fails miserably in ALL tests I've ever conducted. It has very little in the way of good products in it to keep a chain alive. You won't see it on their MSDS, but part of the last 10% of the product kept under wraps, is silicone. Silicone makes a great lube for controls cables and squeaky hinges on your stero cabinet. Other than that, you are only kidding yourself thinking it is the proper product to be using on a roller chain of any sort or fashion.

Dry-film, chain specific lubricants, act the same as WD-40. They go on wet with a light solvent, then carry the lubricants to the friction points. Dry-films also clean as they go on, as WD-40 can, yet what they deposit is far more able to protect your chain from wear and damage than WD-40 could ever hope for.
So why the WD-40? It's another thing that many of us in the know has us scratching our head.
Myth and ledgend sure do travel fast and hard.

WD-40 is a water displacing product and nothing more. Chain specific dry films are better water dispersants than even WD-40. SO those who are using WD-40 to clean and dry the chain, could also skip a step by simply going to a chain specific dry-film lube.

rokky, the truth of the matter is....too many folks are using WD-40 and kidding themselves that it is the best product to be using. You will find that all WD-40 users are ring chain users as well. A stanedard roller chain user will find out real fast that they might as well spray hairspray on the chain as WD-40...it simply will not keep the chain from wearing.
The ring chain man uses it and thinks the WD-40 is giving him the longevity he sees, when the fact is that he is lucky that he hasn't had and rings displaced or damaged, and has not seen any trouble yet. Once the chain does have some sort of trouble, they tend to think it's the chains fault, and not the inadequate lube schedule they have been practicing.
Yes, many people do get good life out of their ring chains when using WD-40, but it is not attributed to the WD-40...it is simply that the ring chain has remained intact as a result of it's construction. Using a better lube in the exact same circumstances would net an even longer chain life than was seen.

BTW...WD-40 CAN penetrate past a perfectly good o-ring. And like I already stated, if it had anything good in it, that wouldn't be such a bad thing, but it doesn't, so it is.

 

[JonS]

O-ring chains do not need lube. Just keep them clean. This is what the WD-40 does, and keeps them from rusting.

 

[Bobio]

quote:

---

Originally posted by JonS:
O-ring chains do not need lube. Just keep them clean. This is what the WD-40 does, and keeps them from rusting.

---

I don't think the chain manufacturer's would agree with that statement. Most recommend lubing the chain every 300-500 miles.

Here is a quote from DID's website.

http://www.didchain.com/question.html

quote:

---

Question
4. Does my D.I.D X-Ring or O-Ring chain require lubrication?

Answer
Your chain's X-Ring or O-Ring holds special D.I.D V Grease between the pins and the bushings only. Your X-Ring or O-Ring chain does require lubrication between the bushings and the rollers to help extend their life. In addition, your X-Ring or O-Ring chain also requires external lubrication to protect against ozone damage and to extend the life of the chain's X-Ring or O-Ring.

---

Here is a quote from EK Chain's website.

http://www.ekchain.com/faqs.htm

quote:

---

The O-rings or Quadra-X Rings on an EK chain only seal the factory-installed grease between the pins and bushings. As with any chain, you still need to lubricate between the bushings and rollers to prolong service life.

Sealed chains should be lubed only with lubricants specifically marked as being suitable for O-ring chains. A good chain lube should adhere well and have good penetrating qualities to get deep inside the spaces between bushings and rollers.

Non-sealed chains may be lubed with any quality chain lube, or SAE 80/90 wt. oil.

---

I haven't checked all the manufacturer's but, you can bet the rest are going to say something similar.

 

[Jaybird]

No need to check further, bobio...they all state the same info.
It is only comman sense that any metal-to-metal friction point needs lubrication.

FInding a petroleum lubricant that has good penetrating qualities, yet can adhere to the surface well is HARD to find. In fact, it's almost unheard of.
The tackifier that is placed into petro lubes to keep them in place hinder them from penetrating well.

Also, most every chain mfg will tout using 90wt oil on a standard roler chain. And they are correct that 90wt will indeed protect a roller chain...but NOT FOR VERY LONG!
There is no way to keep 90wt oil in place. It will simply be slung out of the friction area in no time flat. (no way to keep the fluid film alive) Leaving you with a chain that has very little to no barrier additives remaining to keep the chain from wearing.

If you have it in your head that what you "should" be using is 90wt simply because the mfg says so, you'd be mistaken. LOL...if there were a product that kept chains alive forever, do you think the chain mfg's would be telling you about it? HA!

So, you must find an alternative that WILL hang in there and do the job for longer.
Bingo,....dry-films fit all the bills.

Of course....no matter how in-depth we go into this issue, and no matter how much valid information is provided in this thread, there will always be someone who will spout off: "You don't need to lube ring chains"

Conventional wisdom...you gotta love it!

 

[Bobio]

The point of my post above was to say that you do need to lube an o-ring chain, not "what" you should use to lube it with.

In the past I have used Honda Performance chain lube.

Honda Performance Chain Lube

Based on recommendations from fellow VFR riders, I am trying Bel Ray Super Clean chain lube. I am using the bike to commute about 300 miles a week so I will be doing frequent chain maintenance.

Bel-Ray Super Clean Chain Lube

[ September 09, 2005, 08:52 AM: Message edited by: Bobio ]