Recent Topics
Roller Bearing Setup For Dillon Shellplate
by billt460
39 minutes 11 seconds ago
Omnia - the band
by Shannow
Today at 02:58 AM
Guest's devices cannot connect to my WiFi
by boulderdentist
Today at 12:54 AM
Battery stuck in flashlight.
by Chris142
Yesterday at 11:53 PM
Must read for everyone watching their diet
by JLTD
Yesterday at 11:28 PM
2014 Mazda5 Valvoline Synpower 0W-20 7500 miles
by PWMDMD
Yesterday at 10:54 PM
VOA Ravenol ECS 0W-20
by PWMDMD
Yesterday at 10:47 PM
2020 mid-engine Corvette spy vid?!
by AZjeff
Yesterday at 10:45 PM
'05 base impala. NO turn signals.FAST blinking.
by Lee4212
Yesterday at 10:34 PM
Motul 15w-50, 5 Liter 4 Pack $19.42
by hatt
Yesterday at 10:10 PM
High Lead Redline 5W40 thoughts? Ty
by Pajero
Yesterday at 09:40 PM
Source of the Mighty Columbia River
by Snagglefoot
Yesterday at 09:32 PM
Another thick/thin article to discuss
by JLTD
Yesterday at 09:23 PM
Ethylene Glycol Long Life Coolant for KUBOTA
by pburchett
Yesterday at 09:11 PM
Mobil 1 5W-30, 6,200 mi, 2017 2.3 EB Explorer
by Whimsey
Yesterday at 08:48 PM
Chevron 10w-40, 97 Nissan Maxima, 3000 miles
by OilGeek91
Yesterday at 08:36 PM
Old green antifreeze in garage storage is gelling
by JLawrence08648
Yesterday at 08:32 PM
VWs at Pick n Pull
by Eric Smith
Yesterday at 08:17 PM
Single Data Point: CK-4 destroys the flat tappet
by Gokhan
Yesterday at 08:12 PM
Breaking in new short block
by Bub
Yesterday at 07:00 PM
Newest Members
azzid0906, OilGeek91, DRancher, Newuser, Varbill
65299 Registered Users
Who's Online
56 registered (4WD, Alex_V, ArrestMeRedZ, 2002 Maxima SE, 12 invisible), 970 Guests and 67 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
65299 Members
67 Forums
285817 Topics
4769976 Posts

Max Online: 3590 @ 01/24/17 08:07 PM
Donate to BITOG
Topic Options
#4679360 - 02/27/18 03:03 AM Hydrogen powered blast furnace
Shannow Online   content


Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 39896
Loc: 'Stralia
https://interestingengineering.com/steel-plant-in-sweden-set-to-operate-entirely-on-hydrogen-fuel

Quote:
A leading Swedish steelmaker will make the first fossil fuel-free steel plant powered by hydrogen. The company called SSAB confirmed earlier this week that plans are in place to overhaul the company's practices and technology.

This new project called HYBRIT will use hydrogen produced with electricity from fossil-free Swedish resources. The resulting emissions are water.

According to Reuters' reports, the company's global output reached upwards of 8.8 million tonnes last year. The SSAB said in a company statement that the new system could remove the greenhouse gases that made up 10 percent of Sweden's total carbon dioxide emissions and 7 percent of Finland's emissions, according to SSAB spokeswoman Viktoria Karsberg.

“After building the pilot plant we will run tests between 2020 and 2024 and then we can scale up to a demonstration plant. By 2035 we should have a ready solution for all production,” she told Reuters.


Hydrogen from electrolysis to run a smelting furnace seems absolutely bonkers...electric arc furnaces maybe less so.

Of course floating red dirt (iron ore) from Australia to Sweden doesn't make much sense either.

Top
#4679370 - 02/27/18 04:30 AM Re: Hydrogen powered blast furnace [Re: Shannow]
Dave9 Offline


Registered: 08/28/17
Posts: 176
Loc: Cincinnati, USA
Bonkers yes from a conservation perspective but from a political and social engineering perspective, they're just doing what everyone else is, trying to get government subsidies to pay for more of their power (or fuel) bill than they'd have to pay for themselves otherwise. Quote:

Quote:
"To be able to carry out this project, however, significant national contributions are still required from the state, research institutions and universities," the project's press statement said.


Why not a more efficient means? Wouldn't qualify for the *free* money, lol.

Top
#4679440 - 02/27/18 07:37 AM Re: Hydrogen powered blast furnace [Re: Shannow]
JHZR2 Offline



Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 41789
Loc: New Jersey
Originally Posted By: Shannow

Hydrogen from electrolysis to run a smelting furnace seems absolutely bonkers...electric arc furnaces maybe less so.


+1. Only way to be fossil fuel free is to have traceable nuke/renewables to electrolysis, and that still has a footprint. If they are caught doing SMR or something, then its as idiotic as characterizing 12MPG SUVs as "partial zero" emissions vehicles.

Electric arc furnaces might be better, but still need the traceability or else are just a joke too.

Top
#4679454 - 02/27/18 08:05 AM Re: Hydrogen powered blast furnace [Re: Shannow]
mk378 Offline


Registered: 09/27/15
Posts: 1420
Loc: USA
They have more hydroelectric power than they can use. This is a way to convert that to a commodity that can be sold at export.

Using coal to reduce iron ore not only produces CO2, it also leaves a lot of carbon in the product which takes additional energy to remove later.


Edited by mk378 (02/27/18 08:10 AM)

Top
#4679468 - 02/27/18 08:32 AM Re: Hydrogen powered blast furnace [Re: Shannow]
OVERKILL Offline


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 36464
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Little presentation from back in 2008 when Bruce was looking to integrate hydrogen into their nuclear tech:

https://www.cns-snc.ca/media/uploads/branch_data/branches/Ottawa/Baindur-Slides.pdf
_________________________
2016 Durango Limited
2016 Grand Cherokee SRT

Top
#4679481 - 02/27/18 08:47 AM Re: Hydrogen powered blast furnace [Re: Dave9]
Claud Offline


Registered: 02/11/14
Posts: 593
Loc: Margate England
Originally Posted By: Dave9
Bonkers yes from a conservation perspective but from a political and social engineering perspective, they're just doing what everyone else is, trying to get government subsidies to pay for more of their power (or fuel) bill than they'd have to pay for themselves otherwise. Quote:

Quote:
"To be able to carry out this project, however, significant national contributions are still required from the state, research institutions and universities," the project's press statement said.


Why not a more efficient means? Wouldn't qualify for the *free* money, lol.


USA industries seem adept at gouging money from the government in the form of tax breaks and bailouts.
I shouldn't single out the USA, it is far from alone in this respect.

Claud.

Top
#4679499 - 02/27/18 09:13 AM Re: Hydrogen powered blast furnace [Re: Shannow]
WyrTwister Offline


Registered: 01/13/13
Posts: 1531
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: Shannow
https://interestingengineering.com/steel-plant-in-sweden-set-to-operate-entirely-on-hydrogen-fuel

Quote:
A leading Swedish steelmaker will make the first fossil fuel-free steel plant powered by hydrogen. The company called SSAB confirmed earlier this week that plans are in place to overhaul the company's practices and technology.

This new project called HYBRIT will use hydrogen produced with electricity from fossil-free Swedish resources. The resulting emissions are water.

According to Reuters' reports, the company's global output reached upwards of 8.8 million tonnes last year. The SSAB said in a company statement that the new system could remove the greenhouse gases that made up 10 percent of Sweden's total carbon dioxide emissions and 7 percent of Finland's emissions, according to SSAB spokeswoman Viktoria Karsberg.

“After building the pilot plant we will run tests between 2020 and 2024 and then we can scale up to a demonstration plant. By 2035 we should have a ready solution for all production,” she told Reuters.

Hydrogen from electrolysis to run a smelting furnace seems absolutely bonkers...electric arc furnaces maybe less so.

Of course floating red dirt (iron ore) from Australia to Sweden doesn't make much sense either.

I think Sweden at one time had an abundance of hydro electric power . Read that is why they had a heavy water plant .

Read about the British attempts to deny the Germans access to the heavy water .

I know electric arc furnaces use mostly scrap steel to melt and re-purpose . Smelting iron ore is a different can of worms . Traditionally coke ( processed coal ) was used . Before that charcoal ( until England was in danger of running out of trees ) .

Top
#4679662 - 02/27/18 12:22 PM Re: Hydrogen powered blast furnace [Re: Shannow]
Kestas Offline



Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 12339
Loc: The Motor City
As WyrTwister said, I don't know how they are going to use hydrogen to smelt iron ore. I'm not familiar with how that will make steel. It takes more than getting something hot to change iron ore into steel.

Top
#4679674 - 02/27/18 12:40 PM Re: Hydrogen powered blast furnace [Re: Shannow]
mk378 Offline


Registered: 09/27/15
Posts: 1420
Loc: USA
The oxygen needs to be removed from the ore by reacting it with an element that has greater affinity for oxygen than iron does. Traditionally, carbon is used. It appears that the hydrogen will also work.


Edited by mk378 (02/27/18 12:40 PM)

Top
#4679807 - 02/27/18 04:12 PM Re: Hydrogen powered blast furnace [Re: Shannow]
PandaBear Offline


Registered: 08/05/02
Posts: 14220
Loc: Silicon Valley
Isn't that going to cause Hydrogen embitterment?

Anyways, IMO the "free" hydroelectric power can be used for data center much more efficiently than to make H2 and then blast furnace for steel. They could have build hundreds of data center and tax the electricity to provide social benefits for the local residences.

Or jump start a local tech industry.
_________________________
"You keep asking questions PandaBear and you'll end up a vegetarian like my wife" - Camu Mahubah

Top
#4679913 - 02/27/18 06:39 PM Re: Hydrogen powered blast furnace [Re: Shannow]
Kestas Offline



Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 12339
Loc: The Motor City
Hydrogen could reduce iron ore. I'd have to dig back in my schooling to verify this. It's not popularly done on a large scale.

Hydrogen embrittlement is not a concern. Any hydrogen in the steel would be long gone with subsequent processing at the mill. Additionally, hydrogen embrittlement is typically only a concern for quench-and-tempered product with high hardness, when hydrogen has been introduced after hardening.

Top
#4680005 - 02/27/18 08:27 PM Re: Hydrogen powered blast furnace [Re: Shannow]
mk378 Offline


Registered: 09/27/15
Posts: 1420
Loc: USA
Tech stuff is prone to bubble. Steel will always be around.

Top
#4680797 - 02/28/18 04:44 PM Re: Hydrogen powered blast furnace [Re: Dave9]
PeterPolyol Offline


Registered: 03/06/16
Posts: 1345
Loc: toronto
I'd expect more from the Swedes than just shuffling the green-washing veneer around to obscure inefficient processes for PR purposes. How else could they truthfully ring-out appealing claims like "b-b-ut the only emission is nice, clean, clear water! You like water, right? Water's nice and safe isn't it?"
Originally Posted By: Dave9

Why not a more efficient means? Wouldn't qualify for the *free* money, lol.

No kidding. Makes a person wonder who the economic forces behind these black-hole subsidies for bogus technical solutions, anyway?

Top
#4681196 - 03/01/18 03:52 AM Re: Hydrogen powered blast furnace [Re: Shannow]
Shannow Online   content


Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 39896
Loc: 'Stralia
http://ballard.com/about-ballard/newsroo...am-with-ballard

Companies exist to make money...they aren't our sensibility check, nor social conscience.

If money is drying up in pond a, and pond b is filling, they will go to pond b.

Top