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OEM Style v K&N / 2015 air filter study #4679018
02/26/18 07:17 PM
02/26/18 07:17 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 9,408
Kendall, FL
wemay Offline OP
wemay  Offline OP
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 9,408
Kendall, FL
*PDF FILE*
International Conference on Emerging Trends in Engineering, Science and Technology (ICETEST•2015)

Mathews V Johna,*, Sandhya Ma, Balakrishnan Kaa
Department of Mechanical Engineering, Government Engineering College, Thrissur-680009, Kerala, India

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar...301475-main.pdf


'18 KIA Sportage LX AWD 2.4L: MSS 10w30
'13 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport 2.0T: EDGE 5w30
Re: OEM Style v K&N / 2015 air filter study [Re: wemay] #4679119
02/26/18 08:41 PM
02/26/18 08:41 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 5,873
Kalifornia Kollective
BrocLuno Online content
BrocLuno  Online Content
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 5,873
Kalifornia Kollective
Don't like the intake whistle that sometimes comes with K&N style systems. I'll take OEM any day smile


Formerly in marine engineering. In an earlier life I owned my own petroleum tank truck, and hauled for the majors and independent's.
Re: OEM Style v K&N / 2015 air filter study [Re: wemay] #4679136
02/26/18 08:54 PM
02/26/18 08:54 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 19,956
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Trav Offline
Trav  Offline
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 19,956
MA, Mittelfranken.de
They seem to have used mostly diesels with 100% flow of air all the time and even under those conditions the difference in performance was negligible.
Gasoline engines only require full flow at WOT and would not benefit at all from this type of filter as filter size is greater than the engine could consume at WOT.


ASE L1, Master. Deutsch Meisterbrief.
Re: OEM Style v K&N / 2015 air filter study [Re: wemay] #4679203
02/26/18 09:49 PM
02/26/18 09:49 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,269
Waco, TX
Linctex Offline
Linctex  Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,269
Waco, TX
"the very high cost of K&N air filter (Rs6500/-) compared to that of the OEM air filter(Rs200/-) is a deterrent"

WOW!!

First, 200 rupees isn't that much ($3 USD)

6500 rupees = $100 !!!!


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: OEM Style v K&N / 2015 air filter study [Re: wemay] #4679228
02/26/18 10:02 PM
02/26/18 10:02 PM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 2,288
Kansan,1911 45ACP fan
Marco620 Offline
Marco620  Offline
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 2,288
Kansan,1911 45ACP fan
I'd go OE of AEM Dryflow/AFE Dry if its a performance need but never an oiled air filter. If so, pantyhose on the cone or intake plenium for safe measure.


15' Civic 179k.0w20 Redline/Archoil9100,Eibach,Yokohama/Borla Exhaust/Tein Suspension/Fu7317/Redline Si-1
Right to work state proud. Non union household
Re: OEM Style v K&N / 2015 air filter study [Re: wemay] #4679376
02/27/18 05:55 AM
02/27/18 05:55 AM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,755
Crawfordville FL
SilverFusion2010 Offline
SilverFusion2010  Offline
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,755
Crawfordville FL
Meh. Not impressed with that paper.


2010 Ford Fusion SE 3.0L V6, 178k miles M1 HM 10w-30
Re: OEM Style v K&N / 2015 air filter study [Re: wemay] #4679378
02/27/18 06:05 AM
02/27/18 06:05 AM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 211
Cincinnati, USA
Dave9 Offline
Dave9  Offline
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 211
Cincinnati, USA
Potentially worthless study, results can only be compared to same engine with same intake and doesn't consider what happens when more and more oil vapor makes its way onto intake sensors, and assumes many things as fact which are not and sometimes even gets things backwards. For example:

Quote:
Fig 8 shows that the filtering efficiency of the OEM filter was superior to that of the K&N filter. The decreased filtering efficiency of the K&N filter can be attributed to the increased pore size of the cotton gauze medium used in the filter. The actual filtering efficiency of the K&N filter will be higher in real life scenario due to the increased
surface area exposed to the air stream.


They aren't even thinking logically if they can't see that having more larger holes does nothing to increase filtering efficiency. Flow efficiency maybe, but not filtering.

Re: OEM Style v K&N / 2015 air filter study [Re: wemay] #4680207
02/28/18 03:36 AM
02/28/18 03:36 AM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 9,408
Kendall, FL
wemay Offline OP
wemay  Offline OP
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 9,408
Kendall, FL
I believe it may be a translation issue. I understand it to mean, initial filtering efficiency is is worse than what you get through daily driving, accumulating miles and thus packing the media.


'18 KIA Sportage LX AWD 2.4L: MSS 10w30
'13 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport 2.0T: EDGE 5w30
Re: OEM Style v K&N / 2015 air filter study [Re: Dave9] #4680224
02/28/18 05:44 AM
02/28/18 05:44 AM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,639
Taiwan
Ducked Online content
Ducked  Online Content
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,639
Taiwan
Originally Posted By: Dave9
Potentially worthless study, results can only be compared to same engine with same intake and doesn't consider what happens when more and more oil vapor makes its way onto intake sensors, and assumes many things as fact which are not and sometimes even gets things backwards. For example:

Quote:
Fig 8 shows that the filtering efficiency of the OEM filter was superior to that of the K&N filter. The decreased filtering efficiency of the K&N filter can be attributed to the increased pore size of the cotton gauze medium used in the filter. The actual filtering efficiency of the K&N filter will be higher in real life scenario due to the increased
surface area exposed to the air stream.


They aren't even thinking logically if they can't see that having more larger holes does nothing to increase filtering efficiency. Flow efficiency maybe, but not filtering.


It seems to be a speculative assumption.

They tested the filter efficiency (defined as % cement dust retention) on a fixed area of filter material. For a given total amount of air flow (and therefore a given total amount of dust injested) with a bigger total filter area the flow rate across a unit area will be lower.

It seems a fairly reasonable assumption that filtration efficiency will increase as flow rate/unit area goes down, but it is an assumption and it should have been stated as such.

Re: OEM Style v K&N / 2015 air filter study [Re: wemay] #4680381
02/28/18 09:09 AM
02/28/18 09:09 AM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,639
Taiwan
Ducked Online content
Ducked  Online Content
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,639
Taiwan
That "filter efficiency" procedure is apparently simple, but I'd think it would be quite difficult to standardise it in such a way as to avoid uncontrolled variables (for example, exactly how you introduce the cement powder to the airstream, over what period, and at what RH) which isn't described other than as "slowly"

I'd expect to see some measure of the variation / reproducability of that result in particlar, but also the other results, and it doesn't seem to be there.

The most accessible paper on this topic is the Oak Ridge study (Norman, Huff and West, 2009)

https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/pdfs/Air_Filter_Effects_02_26_2009.pdf

They don't cite that paper as such, but they cite SAE papers that share two of its authors and probably report the same data.

The effects reported in that paper are generally small to negligable, and the filter restriction threasholds were lower as well.

A Tata Sumo is of course a very different vehicle. Perhaps it has a more restricted intake path and an engine more sensitive to restriction.

Nevertheless the difference is a bit surprising, and it isn't really acknowledged in the discussion.

Re: OEM Style v K&N / 2015 air filter study [Re: wemay] #4680392
02/28/18 09:25 AM
02/28/18 09:25 AM
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,225
New England
Virtus_Probi Offline
Virtus_Probi  Offline
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,225
New England
Might be worth comparing to this series of tests done way back in 2009...

http://www.nicoclub.com/archives/kn-vs-oem-filter.html


2014 Forester XT, 86000 miles
Last Change;
M1 5W30 d1G2
Tokyo Roki 15208AA170 filter
Re: OEM Style v K&N / 2015 air filter study [Re: wemay] #4680686
02/28/18 03:52 PM
02/28/18 03:52 PM
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,667
Columbus,Nebraska
Yah-Tah-Hey Offline
Yah-Tah-Hey  Offline
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,667
Columbus,Nebraska
Wouldn't have one if they gave it to me. Don't care if ten engineers vouch for that K&N. Won't filter as good as the OEM filter.

Re: OEM Style v K&N / 2015 air filter study [Re: Virtus_Probi] #4680702
02/28/18 04:03 PM
02/28/18 04:03 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 9,408
Kendall, FL
wemay Offline OP
wemay  Offline OP
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 9,408
Kendall, FL
Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
Might be worth comparing to this series of tests done way back in 2009...
http://www.nicoclub.com/archives/kn-vs-oem-filter.html



Referencing the study you cite, i'm ok with 96.8% efficiency for the K&N. hide






'18 KIA Sportage LX AWD 2.4L: MSS 10w30
'13 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport 2.0T: EDGE 5w30
Re: OEM Style v K&N / 2015 air filter study [Re: wemay] #4681038
02/28/18 10:17 PM
02/28/18 10:17 PM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 2,288
Kansan,1911 45ACP fan
Marco620 Offline
Marco620  Offline
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 2,288
Kansan,1911 45ACP fan
AC Delco is 99.9! Wow! Car company is fair at best but I guess they got filtering down pat.


15' Civic 179k.0w20 Redline/Archoil9100,Eibach,Yokohama/Borla Exhaust/Tein Suspension/Fu7317/Redline Si-1
Right to work state proud. Non union household
Re: OEM Style v K&N / 2015 air filter study [Re: wemay] #4681063
02/28/18 10:46 PM
02/28/18 10:46 PM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 389
AZ
Killer223 Offline
Killer223  Offline
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 389
AZ
if you care about the engine, and run it more than a drag track, do not run a K&N. i've seen dozens of dusted engines from a K&N.
https://youtu.be/gNQ6d3ox5Ok

here is a well documented
https://youtu.be/6F5TgPY96V4


08 6.7 cummins G56
04 5.9 cummins
11 ranger 4.0
16 KTM 250 XC
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