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Aircraft UOA fact #4678473
02/26/18 09:29 AM
02/26/18 09:29 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 7,427
Jupiter, Florida
Cujet Offline OP
Cujet  Offline OP
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 7,427
Jupiter, Florida
UOA is a nice way to watch engine trends. However, it's unable to pick up large particulates, such as the typical Lycoming failure. I recently received the following:

"As an aside, I religiously sent samples to Blackstone during my last
engine run...all 1600+ hours...and all came back glowingly perfect. Even
the last one...as I was cleaning metal out of my filter"

This particular owner experienced camshaft failure, very similar to my cam failure. It's common on Lycoming IO360 engines and it DOES NOT show up in UOA results.

A picture of my camshaft failure can be found here: http://cujet.com/html/engine.html



Last edited by Cujet; 02/26/18 09:31 AM.

People who count on their fingers should maintain a discreet silence.
Re: Aircraft UOA fact [Re: Cujet] #4678479
02/26/18 09:36 AM
02/26/18 09:36 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,560
SE Texas
2015_PSD Offline
2015_PSD  Offline
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,560
SE Texas
There have been other cases like this too which are posted from time to time (from car/truck engines). UOA is for oil health, not engine health, but **sometimes** they can show an impending problem.

Nice photos of the engine build!


2018 MB AMG GLC43 3.0L Coupe - Castrol 0W-40/Purflux
2018 MB C300 2.0L - M1 0W-40/OEM
2015 F-250 6.7L PS Diesel - Delo 15W-40/CQ Blue
2014 Explorer 3.5L Limited - M1 AFE 0W-20/FU
Re: Aircraft UOA fact [Re: 2015_PSD] #4678519
02/26/18 10:20 AM
02/26/18 10:20 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 11,842
Idaho
CT8 Online content
CT8  Online Content
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 11,842
Idaho
Originally Posted By: 2015_PSD
There have been other cases like this too which are posted from time to time (from car/truck engines). UOA is for oil health, not engine health, but **sometimes** they can show an impending problem.

Nice photos of the engine build!
This and Thanks Cujet !!


2015 Ford F150 2.7
2018 Ford F350 6.2
Re: Aircraft UOA fact [Re: Cujet] #4678541
02/26/18 10:40 AM
02/26/18 10:40 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 11,842
Idaho
CT8 Online content
CT8  Online Content
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 11,842
Idaho
Cujet do you rebuild the engine after the parts failure?


2015 Ford F150 2.7
2018 Ford F350 6.2
Re: Aircraft UOA fact [Re: Cujet] #4678555
02/26/18 11:04 AM
02/26/18 11:04 AM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 12,541
NH
supton Online content
supton  Online Content
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 12,541
NH
Thanks for the pics--always curious what these motors look like. Nice buildup too.


2011 Toyota Camry, base, 2.5L/6MT, 163k, hers
2010 Toyota Tundra DC, 4.6L/6AT, 144k, ours
1999 Toyota Camry LE, 2.2L/4AT, 190k, his
Re: Aircraft UOA fact [Re: Cujet] #4678581
02/26/18 11:28 AM
02/26/18 11:28 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 7,525
Marshfield , MA
andyd Offline
andyd  Offline
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 7,525
Marshfield , MA
Beautiful work. A complete small plane ignoramus here. Doesn't an aircraft have to be re-certified every X amount of hours?


'16 Camry LE STP synth 0w20 and STP filter. the Fridge

1994 Ranger ,the Rat, 5w30 dino, STP filter

'16 Camry SE, Valvoline HM 0w20 and OEM filter
Thick oil is better grin2
Re: Aircraft UOA fact [Re: Cujet] #4678595
02/26/18 11:43 AM
02/26/18 11:43 AM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,434
Michigan
stockrex Offline
stockrex  Offline
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,434
Michigan
Cujet, did that cam wear or shear off?


07Ridgeline:33k,08Dmax:14k,10Fit:40k:90Toyota1Ton:88k
Oil Whisperer!*Fear the DINO*
Re: Aircraft UOA fact [Re: Cujet] #4678603
02/26/18 11:48 AM
02/26/18 11:48 AM
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,225
New England
Virtus_Probi Offline
Virtus_Probi  Offline
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,225
New England
Ummm...wouldn't this tend to be a fatal failure? I guess the engine was able to limp along?

I used to chip in with a couple private pilots at my first job in TX who would rent a small plane in Dallas and fly up to a really cool catfish restaurant on the Red River in OK that had a dirt landing strip. The first time I joined them, they were meticulously inspecting the aircraft before departure and the guy checking the oil looked really puzzled. Finally, he told the other pilot that it was 8 quarts low and headed off the get some oil.
I thought really hard about bolting for my car because that sounded really bad to me, but I put my big boy pants on and stuck it out. It was really a wonderful trip and I joined them whenever I could from then on.


2014 Forester XT, 86000 miles
Last Change;
M1 5W30 d1G2
Tokyo Roki 15208AA170 filter
Re: Aircraft UOA fact [Re: Cujet] #4678612
02/26/18 12:00 PM
02/26/18 12:00 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,518
The Motor City
Kestas Offline
Kestas  Offline
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,518
The Motor City
Was there a magnetic chip detector in the engine to alert you?

Re: Aircraft UOA fact [Re: Cujet] #4678624
02/26/18 12:13 PM
02/26/18 12:13 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 5,849
Kalifornia Kollective
BrocLuno Offline
BrocLuno  Offline
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 5,849
Kalifornia Kollective
Cardinal is a very nice plane smile

The cam failure could be from one of two sources. Either the lobe was soft, or one of the lifters bound up and stopped spinning ... Once that happens it wipes the taper off the lobe in a heart beat and all is down hill from there.

I noticed you had some lifter bore work done. Very wise. The bores need to be a slightly "loose" to make sure if some small debris gets in there, they can still spin.

Really nice engine work. And the interior looks very good too. You do nice meticulous work. Think I'll buy a plane and send it down for you to tinker on laugh


Formerly in marine engineering. In an earlier life I owned my own petroleum tank truck, and hauled for the majors and independent's.
Re: Aircraft UOA fact [Re: Cujet] #4678708
02/26/18 02:01 PM
02/26/18 02:01 PM
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,665
Columbus,Nebraska
Yah-Tah-Hey Offline
Yah-Tah-Hey  Offline
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,665
Columbus,Nebraska
Very nice presentation Cujet. I liked the P portion of the A&P curriculum at Spartan. That was a long time ago. Never put a wrench on a "real" airplane but was successful in power generation.

Re: Aircraft UOA fact [Re: Cujet] #4678852
02/26/18 04:18 PM
02/26/18 04:18 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 19,910
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Trav Offline
Trav  Offline
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 19,910
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Interesting cam lobe mod for oiling. I notice some high revving bike engines use squirters above the cams lobes, which works well also.
There was a guy on the board with a turbo Grand National that had good UOA's but the engine was in bits inside, his experience left me questioning the value of them for anything other than coolant and fuel dilution and now seeing this even more so.
Very nice work!


ASE L1, Master. Deutsch Meisterbrief.
Re: Aircraft UOA fact [Re: Cujet] #4678864
02/26/18 04:28 PM
02/26/18 04:28 PM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 354
West Yorkshire, UK
NGRhodes Offline
NGRhodes  Offline
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 354
West Yorkshire, UK
If its big enough to be filtered its too big to show in a UOA.
Maybe we need to better check our filters like we should our stools ?

Re: Aircraft UOA fact [Re: Cujet] #4678948
02/26/18 05:50 PM
02/26/18 05:50 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 11,842
Idaho
CT8 Online content
CT8  Online Content
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 11,842
Idaho
Have to rebuild ?


2015 Ford F150 2.7
2018 Ford F350 6.2
Re: Aircraft UOA fact [Re: Trav] #4679079
02/26/18 07:59 PM
02/26/18 07:59 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 13,837
Illinois
tig1 Offline
tig1  Offline
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 13,837
Illinois
Originally Posted By: Trav
Interesting cam lobe mod for oiling. I notice some high revving bike engines use squirters above the cams lobes, which works well also.
There was a guy on the board with a turbo Grand National that had good UOA's but the engine was in bits inside, his experience left me questioning the value of them for anything other than coolant and fuel dilution and now seeing this even more so.
Very nice work!


The only way I would do a UOA would be for the condition of the oil. Dirt, fuel, or coolant.


2007 Ford Fusion 232,000 miles
M1 0-20 EP
2017 Ford Fusion 55K
M1 0-20 EP
10,000 mile OCIs on both engines
M1 ATF and MC LV
M1 10-30 in all OPE
MC filters

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