Recent Topics
Any 'crazy UCL overdose' fans out there?
by addyguy
06/17/18 07:11 PM
Source for Castrol Edge Supercar 5w50 oil?
by Rainier42
06/17/18 06:50 PM
Cherry vs orange hand cleaner
by JHZR2
06/17/18 06:27 PM
Why buy low mileage tires?
by HowAboutThis
06/17/18 05:49 PM
Mercury 35-8M0065104 cut open w/ oil change pics
by dlundblad
06/17/18 05:37 PM
2019 Honda’s miniMOTOs (125cc)
by DuckRyder
06/17/18 05:18 PM
Car Sales Scammers on Letgo
by ZZman
06/17/18 04:18 PM
Air shocks or Timbren for trailer towing ?
by Oldtom
06/17/18 04:10 PM
Which coil for a 2002 Focus Zetec?
by slacktide_bitog
06/17/18 04:07 PM
Blink -Roadside assistance, any experience?
by MoneyJohn
06/17/18 03:22 PM
Some garage art!
by ls1mike
06/17/18 03:12 PM
California Law
by PiperOne
06/17/18 02:37 PM
honda vs tyc a/c condenser?
by researcher
06/17/18 02:31 PM
To all the Fathers out there.
by rollinpete
06/17/18 01:37 PM
'14 Mercedes E350 Coupe - Castrol Edge 0w40
by FlyPenFly
06/17/18 01:08 PM
2007 Chrysler 4.0L SOHC engine - why 10w-30 req'd?
by 92saturnsl2
06/17/18 12:54 PM
you can see my crack when I dismount a tire
by eljefino
06/17/18 12:44 PM
Mobil 1™ Synthetic LV ATF HP
by Cup of Joe
06/17/18 11:44 AM
Coolant Flush - '07 Pacifica 4.0L
by 92saturnsl2
06/17/18 11:34 AM
Pan Drop or Fluid Through Dipstick
by TheLawnRanger
06/17/18 11:32 AM
Newest Members
Piper58, dunlop0078, Truth_Syrup, rjohn37, omatik
65256 Registered Users
Who's Online
89 registered (4WD, 2015_PSD, 69Torino, 2009Edge, 1JZ_E46, 8 invisible), 1464 Guests and 40 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
65256 Members
67 Forums
285482 Topics
4764486 Posts

Max Online: 3590 @ 01/24/17 08:07 PM
Donate to BITOG
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
#4677564 - 02/25/18 11:12 AM Which have improved faster - engines or oils?
HawkeyeScott Offline


Registered: 01/11/07
Posts: 785
Loc: El Oeste
Over the last 30 years or so, motor oils have improved substantially and so have the engines they go in. But could you definitively say one has improved much faster than the other? I’d lean towards oils, but it’s nothing more than a hunch.

Related: Which would last longer? An average 1980 engine run solely on today’s oils, or an average 2018 engine run on 1980s motor oils?

Was just looking at an ad for a 1985 Caddy and it got me thinking about what the ceiling would be for an engine of that era if a guy bought it and fed it today’s best oils.

Top
#4677571 - 02/25/18 11:16 AM Re: Which have improved faster - engines or oils? [Re: HawkeyeScott]
JohnnyJohnson Offline


Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 2730
Loc: Wet side WA
Well sorry to say the last few years engines have started going the other way. That's why I'm still driving my 2004 Toyota changing wouldn't be a gain. When the car industry figures that out they won't be able to build enough cars.
_________________________
2004 Toyota Corolla 121478
Out: QSUD 5W-30 Purolator One 5030
In: Valvoline ML 5w-30 TG4967 117530 2-8-18
2006 Duramax 74016
Out: T6 5W-40 M1-303
In: T6 5W-40 XG9100 73752 4-22-18

Top
#4677585 - 02/25/18 11:26 AM Re: Which have improved faster - engines or oils? [Re: HawkeyeScott]
PimTac Offline


Registered: 03/04/17
Posts: 4209
Loc: Soviet State of Washington
A 1980 era engine with all the burgeoning air pollution junk the govt was requiring? Nope. Today’s engines for the most part are much better but that depends on the manufacturer.

Oil has definitely improved as well. As for running one era with another, I wouldn’t. I still remember the Quaker State fiasco, having seen it in person.
_________________________
2017 Mazda CX-5 Grand Touring

Valvoline Advanced Synthetic 0w20
Mobil 1 M108A EP filter


Top
#4677601 - 02/25/18 11:44 AM Re: Which have improved faster - engines or oils? [Re: HawkeyeScott]
supton Offline


Registered: 11/09/08
Posts: 11909
Loc: NH
Oil seems to be much better. I remember going into the 90's thinking 100k was a good lifespan for an engine.

Today it does seem to be going backwards, cleaning deposits off intake valves etc. But I'm not sure if that work (intake cleaning, PCV cleaning, whatever comes up these days) comes close to what was required in the bad old days (3k OCI's, plugs ever 10k, carb rebuilds, timing & dwell & points, timing chain stretch & nylon gears, hard starting and frequent stalling if the carb got out of whack, timing belt changes, etc). IMO some of this DI and AFM stuff may well be just teething pains--plenty of anecdotal evidence here indicating they can go to high miles without extra work. So even my "thought" that we are going backwards might be misplaced, based on internet amplification.
_________________________
2011 Toyota Camry, base, 2.5L/6MT, 160k, hers
2010 Toyota Tundra DC, 4.6L/6AT, 143k, ours
1999 Toyota Camry LE, 2.2L/4AT, 181k, his

Top
#4677618 - 02/25/18 12:01 PM Re: Which have improved faster - engines or oils? [Re: HawkeyeScott]
salesrep Offline


Registered: 08/22/03
Posts: 3600
Loc: lllinois
I got too go with oils. Just take a look at ALL the spec changes the last 10 years or so. Todays engine and EPA demands have created an environment where engine oil technology HAS to step it up.

Conversely perhaps:
I'd have to go with todays engines and yesterdays oil, because of base stocks. Now you would have to change your oil more often.
_________________________
High quality Specialized Lubricants pay for themselves!

Top
#4677627 - 02/25/18 12:15 PM Re: Which have improved faster - engines or oils? [Re: HawkeyeScott]
Langanobob Offline


Registered: 04/24/09
Posts: 206
Loc: Reno, Nevada
I’d say that engines are changing faster than oils and the increasingly complex engine lubrication requrements are the driving force behind oil progress.

Top
#4677670 - 02/25/18 01:09 PM Re: Which have improved faster - engines or oils? [Re: HawkeyeScott]
Pajero Online   content


Registered: 05/05/12
Posts: 836
Loc: Rio Rancho, NM
We have probes on Mars! Rocket engines helped it get to Mars.....





Respectfully,

Pajero!
_________________________
Always remember "Planned obsolescence."

1994 Montero SR 3.5 DOHC, 133,xxx
Fram Ultra/ Snorkel with Pre-filter
K-9-Co-pilot

Top
#4677680 - 02/25/18 01:22 PM Re: Which have improved faster - engines or oils? [Re: HawkeyeScott]
CT8 Offline


Registered: 10/09/14
Posts: 10920
Loc: Idaho
The 1980s engines weren't required to last as long for the emission requirement.
_________________________
"Don't let your preconceived notions get in the way of facts."Geoff Metcalf"

Top
#4677681 - 02/25/18 01:22 PM Re: Which have improved faster - engines or oils? [Re: HawkeyeScott]
CT8 Offline


Registered: 10/09/14
Posts: 10920
Loc: Idaho
The 1980s engines weren't required to last as long for the emission requirement.
_________________________
"Don't let your preconceived notions get in the way of facts."Geoff Metcalf"

Top
#4677714 - 02/25/18 01:56 PM Re: Which have improved faster - engines or oils? [Re: supton]
Linctex Offline


Registered: 12/31/16
Posts: 6148
Loc: Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: supton
....in the bad old days (3k OCI's, plugs ever 10k, carb rebuilds, timing & dwell & points, timing chain stretch & nylon gears, hard starting and frequent stalling if the carb got out of whack, timing belt changes, etc....


Two other criteria:

1) Machining is WAAAAAAY better. The average engine builder guy can NOT build an engine now-a-days as well as the factory with all the CNC machines and robots keeping tolerances down very tight.

If you saw engines being built in the 70's all 8 holes in the block were honed to a different size, and the assembly guy had different shelves of pistons (A size 3.997", B size 3.999", C size 4.001" etc etc.) to fit the small and large holes... and they often did NOT care if they didn't have the right size needed. same with valve guides, etc etc etc

2) The metallurgy is WAAAAAAY better. The cams in MOST OHC engines ride right on machined holes in the cylinder heads themselves - NO BEARINGS! I grew up in the 70's and there was NO american V8 engines built that went to 150,000 without some oil consumption and a pretty decent loss of power. Now, we have Ford and Chevy (sorry dodge) truck engines going to 300,000 **A L L . T H E . T I M E** .... it's very common. That NEVER happened 30 years ago.

Now, I am pretty easy on my 2008 F150 4.6 - - I think that engine would handle SE, SF, or SG oil just fine without burning up. I do know a LOT of diesel engines that went 10,000(!) hours in the 70's and 80's on CC/CD oils!!!

So..... engines are designed, machined and assembled much much much much better, and *most* would handle the mileage just fine, even on older oils (Sorry toyota).
_________________________
"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."

Top
#4677716 - 02/25/18 01:58 PM Re: Which have improved faster - engines or oils? [Re: HawkeyeScott]
SubieRubyRoo Offline


Registered: 05/14/12
Posts: 1125
Loc: Winchester, Indiana
I'd say oils have progressed farther and faster: base stocks and additives are doing more with less compared to conventional wisdom- less ZDDP, less calcium, etc... and the fact they are all backwards compatible to use on older engines.

Conversely, about the only things that have truly changed is GDI and the elimination of flat tappets. Bearings are still bearings, roller tappets still roll, injectors still spray fuel and spark plugs still light the candles. I'm pretty sure you could take a 2018 engine and try to run it on some SJ and would have issues in short order... but you could likely run an engine from 1995 for 300k on some D1G2 without issue.

Top
#4677724 - 02/25/18 02:03 PM Re: Which have improved faster - engines or oils? [Re: HawkeyeScott]
Snagglefoot Online   content


Registered: 12/31/17
Posts: 1676
Loc: Alberta
The oil's today are great and definitely help out the 80'engines, but for whatever reason you would often see oil burning cars in the early 80's. Oil burners are not as common today. On the other hand, moving forward with AFM (GM's acronym for cylinder cut out), has caused some problems. They finally changed the design in the V-8's in 2014 and spec'd Dexos oil. There is pressure to get better mileage and sometimes we have issues. Better engines. Not sure. Complicated engines? Definitely.


Edited by Snagglefoot (02/25/18 02:05 PM)

Top
#4677727 - 02/25/18 02:04 PM Re: Which have improved faster - engines or oils? [Re: HawkeyeScott]
donnyj08 Offline


Registered: 08/12/12
Posts: 3030
Loc: Cincinnati
I would say it depends...I think oils like Mobil 1 and Amsoil were ahead of the game in the 70's and at that time engines were by and large pretty poor comparend to a modern engine. However i think some of today's DI small displacement, high revving and force indicted engines are ahead of the game and oil specs are constantly playing catch up.

Take a look at a 95 civic with a port FI 1.6L engine that was easy on oil and could run virtually forever on a modern oil and compare it to todays 1.5L high compression DI and TurboCharged engine that I believe Is a challenge for todays best oils.





Edited by donnyj08 (02/25/18 02:07 PM)
_________________________
2008 Silverado Z71 LT 90k Maxlife FS 5w30
2010 Ford Escape 167k QSUD 5w20
2016 Yamaha XSR900 11.5k, Rotella 15w40 Yamaha Filter.

Top
#4677748 - 02/25/18 02:19 PM Re: Which have improved faster - engines or oils? [Re: HawkeyeScott]
andyd Online   content


Registered: 09/25/04
Posts: 7125
Loc: Marshfield , MA
Better engines are driving the need for better oils. Electronic engine mgt pretty much doubled engine life
_________________________
'16 Camry LE STP synth 0w20 and STP filter. the Fridge

1994 Ranger ,the Rat, 5w30 dino, STP filter

'16 Camry SE, Valvoline HM 0w20 and OEM filter
Thick oil is better grin2

Top
#4677753 - 02/25/18 02:21 PM Re: Which have improved faster - engines or oils? [Re: HawkeyeScott]
LoneRanger Offline


Registered: 07/02/07
Posts: 4044
Loc: Midwest USA
Engines
_________________________

'09 Subaru Forester ...................(QSED DEXOS1 5W30)
'16 Moto Guzzi Stelvio 1200 .....(ENI i-Ride PG 10W60)

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >