Recent Topics
0w20 oils - NOACK
by superangrypenguin. 12/11/18 08:19 PM
Liqui Moly Special Tec AA 5w20 API SN
by Johnny248. 12/11/18 08:15 PM
Buy a brand new 1966-1977 Ford Bronco
by StevieC. 12/11/18 07:50 PM
2012 Accord,QSUD 5W20,WIX 57356 filter,3K miles
by aquariuscsm. 12/11/18 07:05 PM
Check out this awsome work!
by Chris142. 12/11/18 06:47 PM
200,000 miles
by Marco620. 12/11/18 06:29 PM
2016 s5 filter??
by wantboost. 12/11/18 06:15 PM
Confused on what oil to use on my 2016 s5 0w40
by wantboost. 12/11/18 06:08 PM
AC compressor pulley replacement
by PhuongFU. 12/11/18 05:34 PM
Battery Woofed
by Tdbo. 12/11/18 05:32 PM
Amsoil TBN versus M1 / RP in ASTM D2896 Testing
by StevieC. 12/11/18 05:30 PM
Grade of Fuel for Snow Blower
by cb450sc. 12/11/18 04:36 PM
Heat Not Hot
by coopns. 12/11/18 04:30 PM
BMW or Volvo Transmission Rebuild
by kawan. 12/11/18 04:29 PM
Front brake pads
by Papa Bear. 12/11/18 03:38 PM
Another too much oil in the sump thread
by paulri. 12/11/18 03:15 PM
Honda and 2 different Frams
by mclasser. 12/11/18 02:19 PM
Newest Members
tcoffin014, Schm1d, EagleC, Dinka, MechanicGuy
66654 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
109 registered members (2strokeNorthstar, aba4430, Aero540T, AndyB, AdditiveOCD, Astro14, 14 invisible), 1,848 guests, and 35 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums67
Topics294,946
Posts4,924,650
Members66,654
Most Online2,553
Oct 27th, 2018
Donate to BITOG
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Which have improved faster - engines or oils? #4677564
02/25/18 11:12 AM
02/25/18 11:12 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 806
El Oeste
HawkeyeScott Offline OP
HawkeyeScott  Offline OP
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 806
El Oeste
Over the last 30 years or so, motor oils have improved substantially and so have the engines they go in. But could you definitively say one has improved much faster than the other? I’d lean towards oils, but it’s nothing more than a hunch.

Related: Which would last longer? An average 1980 engine run solely on today’s oils, or an average 2018 engine run on 1980s motor oils?

Was just looking at an ad for a 1985 Caddy and it got me thinking about what the ceiling would be for an engine of that era if a guy bought it and fed it today’s best oils.

Re: Which have improved faster - engines or oils? [Re: HawkeyeScott] #4677571
02/25/18 11:16 AM
02/25/18 11:16 AM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,509
Wet side WA
JohnnyJohnson Offline
JohnnyJohnson  Offline
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,509
Wet side WA
Well sorry to say the last few years engines have started going the other way. That's why I'm still driving my 2004 Toyota changing wouldn't be a gain. When the car industry figures that out they won't be able to build enough cars.


2004 Corolla 126649
Out: VML 5w-30 TG4967 OCI 5007 Miles
In: EDGE EP 5W-30 Bosch 3311 122537 7-18-18
2006 Duramax 74478
Out: T6 5W-40 M1-303
In: T6 5W-40 XG9100 73705 4-22-18
Re: Which have improved faster - engines or oils? [Re: HawkeyeScott] #4677585
02/25/18 11:26 AM
02/25/18 11:26 AM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 6,484
...
PimTac Offline
PimTac  Offline
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 6,484
...
A 1980 era engine with all the burgeoning air pollution junk the govt was requiring? Nope. Today’s engines for the most part are much better but that depends on the manufacturer.

Oil has definitely improved as well. As for running one era with another, I wouldn’t. I still remember the Quaker State fiasco, having seen it in person.


Cannot see signatures any longer so it doesn’t matter.
Re: Which have improved faster - engines or oils? [Re: HawkeyeScott] #4677601
02/25/18 11:44 AM
02/25/18 11:44 AM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 12,761
NH
supton Offline
supton  Offline
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 12,761
NH
Oil seems to be much better. I remember going into the 90's thinking 100k was a good lifespan for an engine.

Today it does seem to be going backwards, cleaning deposits off intake valves etc. But I'm not sure if that work (intake cleaning, PCV cleaning, whatever comes up these days) comes close to what was required in the bad old days (3k OCI's, plugs ever 10k, carb rebuilds, timing & dwell & points, timing chain stretch & nylon gears, hard starting and frequent stalling if the carb got out of whack, timing belt changes, etc). IMO some of this DI and AFM stuff may well be just teething pains--plenty of anecdotal evidence here indicating they can go to high miles without extra work. So even my "thought" that we are going backwards might be misplaced, based on internet amplification.


2011 Toyota Camry, base, 2.5L/6MT, 170k, hers
2010 Toyota Tundra DC, 4.6L/6AT, 144k, ours
1999 Toyota Camry LE, 2.2L/4AT, 195k, his
Re: Which have improved faster - engines or oils? [Re: HawkeyeScott] #4677618
02/25/18 12:01 PM
02/25/18 12:01 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,613
lllinois
salesrep Offline
salesrep  Offline
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,613
lllinois
I got too go with oils. Just take a look at ALL the spec changes the last 10 years or so. Todays engine and EPA demands have created an environment where engine oil technology HAS to step it up.

Conversely perhaps:
I'd have to go with todays engines and yesterdays oil, because of base stocks. Now you would have to change your oil more often.


High quality Specialized Lubricants pay for themselves!
Re: Which have improved faster - engines or oils? [Re: HawkeyeScott] #4677627
02/25/18 12:15 PM
02/25/18 12:15 PM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 242
Reno, Nevada
Langanobob Offline
Langanobob  Offline
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 242
Reno, Nevada
I’d say that engines are changing faster than oils and the increasingly complex engine lubrication requrements are the driving force behind oil progress.

Re: Which have improved faster - engines or oils? [Re: HawkeyeScott] #4677670
02/25/18 01:09 PM
02/25/18 01:09 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 953
Rio Rancho, NM
Pajero Offline
Pajero  Offline
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 953
Rio Rancho, NM
We have probes on Mars! Rocket engines helped it get to Mars.....





Respectfully,

Pajero!


Always remember "Planned obsolescence."

1994 Montero SR 3.5 DOHC, 133,xxx
Fram Ultra/ Snorkel with Pre-filter
K-9-Co-pilot
Re: Which have improved faster - engines or oils? [Re: HawkeyeScott] #4677680
02/25/18 01:22 PM
02/25/18 01:22 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 12,567
Idaho
CT8 Online content
CT8  Online Content
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 12,567
Idaho
The 1980s engines weren't required to last as long for the emission requirement.


2015 Ford F150 2.7
2018 Ford F350 6.2
Re: Which have improved faster - engines or oils? [Re: HawkeyeScott] #4677681
02/25/18 01:22 PM
02/25/18 01:22 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 12,567
Idaho
CT8 Online content
CT8  Online Content
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 12,567
Idaho
The 1980s engines weren't required to last as long for the emission requirement.


2015 Ford F150 2.7
2018 Ford F350 6.2
Re: Which have improved faster - engines or oils? [Re: supton] #4677714
02/25/18 01:56 PM
02/25/18 01:56 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 7,126
Waco, TX
Linctex Online content
Linctex  Online Content
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 7,126
Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: supton
....in the bad old days (3k OCI's, plugs ever 10k, carb rebuilds, timing & dwell & points, timing chain stretch & nylon gears, hard starting and frequent stalling if the carb got out of whack, timing belt changes, etc....


Two other criteria:

1) Machining is WAAAAAAY better. The average engine builder guy can NOT build an engine now-a-days as well as the factory with all the CNC machines and robots keeping tolerances down very tight.

If you saw engines being built in the 70's all 8 holes in the block were honed to a different size, and the assembly guy had different shelves of pistons (A size 3.997", B size 3.999", C size 4.001" etc etc.) to fit the small and large holes... and they often did NOT care if they didn't have the right size needed. same with valve guides, etc etc etc

2) The metallurgy is WAAAAAAY better. The cams in MOST OHC engines ride right on machined holes in the cylinder heads themselves - NO BEARINGS! I grew up in the 70's and there was NO american V8 engines built that went to 150,000 without some oil consumption and a pretty decent loss of power. Now, we have Ford and Chevy (sorry dodge) truck engines going to 300,000 **A L L . T H E . T I M E** .... it's very common. That NEVER happened 30 years ago.

Now, I am pretty easy on my 2008 F150 4.6 - - I think that engine would handle SE, SF, or SG oil just fine without burning up. I do know a LOT of diesel engines that went 10,000(!) hours in the 70's and 80's on CC/CD oils!!!

So..... engines are designed, machined and assembled much much much much better, and *most* would handle the mileage just fine, even on older oils (Sorry toyota).


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: Which have improved faster - engines or oils? [Re: HawkeyeScott] #4677716
02/25/18 01:58 PM
02/25/18 01:58 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,831
The land of USA-made Subies!
SubieRubyRoo Online happy
SubieRubyRoo  Online Happy
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,831
The land of USA-made Subies!
I'd say oils have progressed farther and faster: base stocks and additives are doing more with less compared to conventional wisdom- less ZDDP, less calcium, etc... and the fact they are all backwards compatible to use on older engines.

Conversely, about the only things that have truly changed is GDI and the elimination of flat tappets. Bearings are still bearings, roller tappets still roll, injectors still spray fuel and spark plugs still light the candles. I'm pretty sure you could take a 2018 engine and try to run it on some SJ and would have issues in short order... but you could likely run an engine from 1995 for 300k on some D1G2 without issue.

Re: Which have improved faster - engines or oils? [Re: HawkeyeScott] #4677724
02/25/18 02:03 PM
02/25/18 02:03 PM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 2,979
SE British Columbia, Canada
Snagglefoot Online content
Snagglefoot  Online Content
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 2,979
SE British Columbia, Canada
The oil's today are great and definitely help out the 80'engines, but for whatever reason you would often see oil burning cars in the early 80's. Oil burners are not as common today. On the other hand, moving forward with AFM (GM's acronym for cylinder cut out), has caused some problems. They finally changed the design in the V-8's in 2014 and spec'd Dexos oil. There is pressure to get better mileage and sometimes we have issues. Better engines. Not sure. Complicated engines? Definitely.

Last edited by Snagglefoot; 02/25/18 02:05 PM.

If you want the job done right......do it yourself.
Re: Which have improved faster - engines or oils? [Re: HawkeyeScott] #4677727
02/25/18 02:04 PM
02/25/18 02:04 PM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,041
Cincinnati
donnyj08 Offline
donnyj08  Offline
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,041
Cincinnati
I would say it depends...I think oils like Mobil 1 and Amsoil were ahead of the game in the 70's and at that time engines were by and large pretty poor comparend to a modern engine. However i think some of today's DI small displacement, high revving and force indicted engines are ahead of the game and oil specs are constantly playing catch up.

Take a look at a 95 civic with a port FI 1.6L engine that was easy on oil and could run virtually forever on a modern oil and compare it to todays 1.5L high compression DI and TurboCharged engine that I believe Is a challenge for todays best oils.




Last edited by donnyj08; 02/25/18 02:07 PM.

2008 Silverado Z71 LT 90k Maxlife FS 5w30
2010 Ford Escape 172k QSUD 5w20
2016 Yamaha XSR900 12k, Rotella 15w40 Yamaha Filter.
Re: Which have improved faster - engines or oils? [Re: HawkeyeScott] #4677748
02/25/18 02:19 PM
02/25/18 02:19 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 7,805
Marshfield , MA
andyd Offline
andyd  Offline
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 7,805
Marshfield , MA
Better engines are driving the need for better oils. Electronic engine mgt pretty much doubled engine life


'16 Camry LE STP synth 0w20 and STP filter. the Fridge

1994 Ranger ,the Rat, 5w30 dino, STP filter

'16 Camry SE, Valvoline HM 0w20 and OEM filter
Thick oil is better grin2
Re: Which have improved faster - engines or oils? [Re: HawkeyeScott] #4677753
02/25/18 02:21 PM
02/25/18 02:21 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 4,336
Midwest USA
LoneRanger Offline
LoneRanger  Offline
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 4,336
Midwest USA
Engines



'09 Subaru Forester ...................(QS HM 5W30)
'16 Moto Guzzi Stelvio 1200 .....(ENI i-Ride PG 10W60)
Page 1 of 2 1 2

BOB IS THE OIL GUY® Powered by UBB.threads™