VOA - PTH Racing Oil 5w30

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Technically not a passenger car oil so I put it here instead. I hope that doesn't cause too much trouble.

The background is that I'm a SCCA racer and found out about this stuff in a tiny ad in a motorsports magazine. They had some claims about its performance and additive content so I sent it out to Blackstone a few weeks ago. The results came back today and I'd like to get some feedback from you experts here:

image.axd



The Zinc / Phosphorus content would probably destroy the cat on most passenger cars but I suspect my straight pipe ITS cars and my friend's classic mini would love this stuff.
 
Originally Posted By: CT8
What is the base oil blend?


I'm willing to bet Group II.

A lot of race oils that have a lot of additives are also usually not synthetic.
 
They don't seem to sell individual quarts ($140 for a case of 12 = $11.67 a quart)

It's NOT a bad price, considering what Amsoil costs.
 
If this were run in a normal, modern passenger car that had a tendency to burn oil, the catalytic converters would wear at an accelerated rate, correct?
 
Originally Posted By: Reddy45
If this were run in a normal, modern passenger car that had a tendency to burn oil, the catalytic converters would wear at an accelerated rate, correct?

Yes. Very yes. That is a TON of phosphorus.
 
This looks like another oil based on the same old "boutique" formula: PAO/ester base, truckload of ZDDP, healthy shot of calcium, dab of moly. Then the blender slaps "racing" on the label and markets it by saying, "hey, look at all those faux synthetics out there with skimpy additive packs. That ain't us. We're making the REAL stuff!"

No substantial claims of better performance than other oils. No claims of anything potentially innovative, other than "proprietary friction modifiers," which means little. HTHS viscosities are nothing special. The base oil description reads like it was written by a marketing person who's new to lubricants (esters aren't Group IV), and there are no MSDSs on the website that might help clarify.

I'm sure it's fine. One of the reasons this approach is so common is that it's known to work. But oils with similar features are a dime a dozen, and I don't see how this one stands out. If there is anything interesting about it, it's not clear from the website or VOA.
 
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
But oils with similar features are a dime a dozen, and I don't see how this one stands out.


I don't see any oils sold anymore for under $10 a quart that have a good level of additives.

"oils with similar features are a dime a dozen"

I haven't seen any. Please provide some examples.
 
Originally Posted By: Linctex
I don't see any oils sold anymore for under $10 a quart that have a good level of additives.


That's actually why I'm even bothering to try this stuff in the first place. I was using Brad Penn 5w30 as a cheap oil for my racecar, but the price went on a roller coaster ride last year - At one point it cost me something like $115 for a case. Even then it wasn't perfect. Something would happen to it (viscosity going up with heat and time?) and the car would start losing power by the end of a long race weekend. It wouldn't be too bad at a regular SCCA Regional but at the end of a 2 hour enduro you could feel the car going significantly slower in a straight line. I'm sure it was only a few horsepower but when you're only working with 170whp it's pretty noticeable.

After that I switched to JGR XP3, but that was costing me $17 a quart. I look after this car, an endurance racing-specific car that I'm sharing with my teammates, and another ITS car for one of my friends. If PTH 5w30 turns out to be decent, I'm saving $70 per round of oil changes.
 
Originally Posted By: Linctex
Annnnnnnnnnnnnnnddddddd..... I was wrong.

Group IV Ester Base, 100% Synthetic PAO,
Zinc 2033 ppm, Phosphorus 2037 ppm,
Calcium 3163 ppm

https://www.pthoil.com/product/pth-racing-oil-5w-30/



I actually called them and asked. They said the it was one of ExxonMobil's Group IV base stocks. I'm guessing it's the same stuff they use to make Mobil 1 Racing, but all they would tell me was that it wasn't the same stuff that's in Mobil 1 Synthetic passenger car oil.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: BoxedFox
I'm guessing it's the same stuff they use to make Mobil 1 Racing, but all they would tell me was that it wasn't the same stuff that's in Mobil 1 Synthetic passenger car oil.


hmmm.... a difference between their base stocks? I wonder what the difference is.
 
Originally Posted By: Linctex
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
But oils with similar features are a dime a dozen, and I don't see how this one stands out.


I don't see any oils sold anymore for under $10 a quart that have a good level of additives.

"oils with similar features are a dime a dozen"

I haven't seen any. Please provide some examples.

"Good" is a nebulous term that allows you to no-true-Scotsman any example that comes your way. You've also done your math wrong -- $140 for a case of 12 quarts is over $10/qt, not under. And I never mentioned cost anyway. So, this seems more like bait than an honest question. But I will answer if anyone else cares.
 
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
But I will answer if anyone else cares.


Sure. I'm curious. What's on your list?
 
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
You've also done your math wrong -- $140 for a case of 12 quarts is over $10/qt, not under.


You obviously missed my other post where I clearly did the math correctly. (6th post)

Originally Posted By: Linctex
They don't seem to sell individual quarts ($140 for a case of 12 = $11.67 a quart)


I'm serious - - - show me examples of similar oil with similar additive packages at same or similar cost.
 
Originally Posted By: BoxedFox
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
But I will answer if anyone else cares.


Sure. I'm curious. What's on your list?

Schaeffer, Red Line, Motul, RLI, Royal Purple, MPT, and Joe Gibbs (as you know) all have marketed oils in this general category: high-end base stocks, lots of Ca and Zn on VOAs, some moly. Slightly different formulations and different price points, but same general idea.
 
Originally Posted By: d00df00d

Schaeffer, Red Line, Motul, RLI, Royal Purple, MPT, and Joe Gibbs (as you know) all have marketed oils in this general category: high-end base stocks, lots of Ca and Zn on VOAs, some moly. Slightly different formulations and different price points, but same general idea.


Schaeffer has LOTS of Moly, but little amount of other ingredients.
Red Line has dialed back their formula - though still pretty good - But it's $14 qt
(they got bought by some corporation and the product got diluted a LOT)

Motul is good, but costs MORE.

RLI? Not enough people trying that yet.
Royal Purple was once good, now = Royal Joke

MPT? Never heard of it. Ingredients? Cost?
Heard of Joe Gibbs oil a very long time ago, nothing recent, though.
 
I use Joe Gibbs Driven Racing Oil. I do happen to know that their approach to additives is a little different from some of the others listed here. They have very little Zinc (750ppm), Phosphorus (800 ppm), or Calcium (400 ppm) in their XP3 and XP1 full synthetics. From what I can surmise, their logic is that high concentrations of detergents inhibit the ability for anti-wear additives to bind to metal. So they use much less of both. I guess it's because of this that they say that you could run their XP1 for an entire season in some cars by doing filter changes and topping off the oil after every weekend. Too chicken to try that one in my cars.

There's been a lot of buy-outs and formulation changes recently. And from what I'm told, some of the big companies are trying to change their formulations to stay competitive. For example Motul recently changed their base stock for 300V to a more cost effective stock from one of the big Japanese oil companies (I think it's JX Nippon Oil but they wouldn't tell me that much). On paper it still looks pretty good but it's definitely cheaper than the stuff they used to produce 3 years ago. And it's still $20 a liter.
 
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