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#4675903 - 02/23/18 08:42 PM VOA - PTH Racing Oil 5w30
BoxedFox Offline


Registered: 02/02/18
Posts: 7
Loc: NJ
Technically not a passenger car oil so I put it here instead. I hope that doesn't cause too much trouble.

The background is that I'm a SCCA racer and found out about this stuff in a tiny ad in a motorsports magazine. They had some claims about its performance and additive content so I sent it out to Blackstone a few weeks ago. The results came back today and I'd like to get some feedback from you experts here:




The Zinc / Phosphorus content would probably destroy the cat on most passenger cars but I suspect my straight pipe ITS cars and my friend's classic mini would love this stuff.
_________________________
93 Honda Prelude Si prepared for SCCA ITS
Joe Gibbs Racing Driven XP3 and PTH Racing Oil 5w30

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#4675991 - 02/23/18 10:17 PM Re: VOA - PTH Racing Oil 5w30 [Re: BoxedFox]
Linctex Offline


Registered: 12/31/16
Posts: 6148
Loc: Waco, TX
OOOOOOOhh.... I like this stuff!

Where can someone buy it? Mail order only I suppose!?
_________________________
"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."

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#4675992 - 02/23/18 10:18 PM Re: VOA - PTH Racing Oil 5w30 [Re: BoxedFox]
CT8 Offline


Registered: 10/09/14
Posts: 10953
Loc: Idaho
What is the base oil blend?
_________________________
"Don't let your preconceived notions get in the way of facts."
Geoff Metcalf

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#4676008 - 02/23/18 10:42 PM Re: VOA - PTH Racing Oil 5w30 [Re: CT8]
Linctex Offline


Registered: 12/31/16
Posts: 6148
Loc: Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: CT8
What is the base oil blend?


I'm willing to bet Group II.

A lot of race oils that have a lot of additives are also usually not synthetic.
_________________________
"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."

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#4676009 - 02/23/18 10:43 PM Re: VOA - PTH Racing Oil 5w30 [Re: BoxedFox]
Linctex Offline


Registered: 12/31/16
Posts: 6148
Loc: Waco, TX
Annnnnnnnnnnnnnnddddddd..... I was wrong.

Group IV Ester Base, 100% Synthetic PAO,
Zinc 2033 ppm, Phosphorus 2037 ppm,
Calcium 3163 ppm

https://www.pthoil.com/product/pth-racing-oil-5w-30/
_________________________
"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."

Top
#4676011 - 02/23/18 10:46 PM Re: VOA - PTH Racing Oil 5w30 [Re: BoxedFox]
Linctex Offline


Registered: 12/31/16
Posts: 6148
Loc: Waco, TX
They don't seem to sell individual quarts ($140 for a case of 12 = $11.67 a quart)

It's NOT a bad price, considering what Amsoil costs.
_________________________
"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."

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#4676034 - 02/23/18 11:32 PM Re: VOA - PTH Racing Oil 5w30 [Re: BoxedFox]
Reddy45 Offline


Registered: 08/15/08
Posts: 2967
Loc: USA
If this were run in a normal, modern passenger car that had a tendency to burn oil, the catalytic converters would wear at an accelerated rate, correct?

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#4676076 - 02/24/18 02:18 AM Re: VOA - PTH Racing Oil 5w30 [Re: Linctex]
billt460 Offline


Registered: 03/30/15
Posts: 4391
Loc: Glendale, Arizona
Originally Posted By: Linctex
It's NOT a bad price, considering what Amsoil costs.


OK, I'll bite. How much is Amsoil a quart, gallon, or whatever?

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#4676082 - 02/24/18 03:16 AM Re: VOA - PTH Racing Oil 5w30 [Re: Reddy45]
d00df00d Offline


Registered: 10/20/05
Posts: 11207
Loc: PA
Originally Posted By: Reddy45
If this were run in a normal, modern passenger car that had a tendency to burn oil, the catalytic converters would wear at an accelerated rate, correct?

Yes. Very yes. That is a TON of phosphorus.
_________________________
2011 Mazda RX-8 R3
Mobil Super 5w-20

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#4676086 - 02/24/18 04:02 AM Re: VOA - PTH Racing Oil 5w30 [Re: BoxedFox]
d00df00d Offline


Registered: 10/20/05
Posts: 11207
Loc: PA
This looks like another oil based on the same old "boutique" formula: PAO/ester base, truckload of ZDDP, healthy shot of calcium, dab of moly. Then the blender slaps "racing" on the label and markets it by saying, "hey, look at all those faux synthetics out there with skimpy additive packs. That ain't us. We're making the REAL stuff!"

No substantial claims of better performance than other oils. No claims of anything potentially innovative, other than "proprietary friction modifiers," which means little. HTHS viscosities are nothing special. The base oil description reads like it was written by a marketing person who's new to lubricants (esters aren't Group IV), and there are no MSDSs on the website that might help clarify.

I'm sure it's fine. One of the reasons this approach is so common is that it's known to work. But oils with similar features are a dime a dozen, and I don't see how this one stands out. If there is anything interesting about it, it's not clear from the website or VOA.
_________________________
2011 Mazda RX-8 R3
Mobil Super 5w-20

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#4676394 - 02/24/18 11:20 AM Re: VOA - PTH Racing Oil 5w30 [Re: d00df00d]
Linctex Offline


Registered: 12/31/16
Posts: 6148
Loc: Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
But oils with similar features are a dime a dozen, and I don't see how this one stands out.


I don't see any oils sold anymore for under $10 a quart that have a good level of additives.

"oils with similar features are a dime a dozen"

I haven't seen any. Please provide some examples.
_________________________
"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."

Top
#4676469 - 02/24/18 12:38 PM Re: VOA - PTH Racing Oil 5w30 [Re: Linctex]
BoxedFox Offline


Registered: 02/02/18
Posts: 7
Loc: NJ
Originally Posted By: Linctex
I don't see any oils sold anymore for under $10 a quart that have a good level of additives.


That's actually why I'm even bothering to try this stuff in the first place. I was using Brad Penn 5w30 as a cheap oil for my racecar, but the price went on a roller coaster ride last year - At one point it cost me something like $115 for a case. Even then it wasn't perfect. Something would happen to it (viscosity going up with heat and time?) and the car would start losing power by the end of a long race weekend. It wouldn't be too bad at a regular SCCA Regional but at the end of a 2 hour enduro you could feel the car going significantly slower in a straight line. I'm sure it was only a few horsepower but when you're only working with 170whp it's pretty noticeable.

After that I switched to JGR XP3, but that was costing me $17 a quart. I look after this car, an endurance racing-specific car that I'm sharing with my teammates, and another ITS car for one of my friends. If PTH 5w30 turns out to be decent, I'm saving $70 per round of oil changes.
_________________________
93 Honda Prelude Si prepared for SCCA ITS
Joe Gibbs Racing Driven XP3 and PTH Racing Oil 5w30

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#4676472 - 02/24/18 12:41 PM Re: VOA - PTH Racing Oil 5w30 [Re: Linctex]
BoxedFox Offline


Registered: 02/02/18
Posts: 7
Loc: NJ
Originally Posted By: Linctex
Annnnnnnnnnnnnnnddddddd..... I was wrong.

Group IV Ester Base, 100% Synthetic PAO,
Zinc 2033 ppm, Phosphorus 2037 ppm,
Calcium 3163 ppm

https://www.pthoil.com/product/pth-racing-oil-5w-30/



I actually called them and asked. They said the it was one of ExxonMobil's Group IV base stocks. I'm guessing it's the same stuff they use to make Mobil 1 Racing, but all they would tell me was that it wasn't the same stuff that's in Mobil 1 Synthetic passenger car oil.


Edited by BoxedFox (02/24/18 12:43 PM)
Edit Reason: Accidentally hit save early.
_________________________
93 Honda Prelude Si prepared for SCCA ITS
Joe Gibbs Racing Driven XP3 and PTH Racing Oil 5w30

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#4676595 - 02/24/18 02:38 PM Re: VOA - PTH Racing Oil 5w30 [Re: BoxedFox]
Linctex Offline


Registered: 12/31/16
Posts: 6148
Loc: Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: BoxedFox
I'm guessing it's the same stuff they use to make Mobil 1 Racing, but all they would tell me was that it wasn't the same stuff that's in Mobil 1 Synthetic passenger car oil.


hmmm.... a difference between their base stocks? I wonder what the difference is.
_________________________
"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."

Top
#4676909 - 02/24/18 07:51 PM Re: VOA - PTH Racing Oil 5w30 [Re: Linctex]
d00df00d Offline


Registered: 10/20/05
Posts: 11207
Loc: PA
Originally Posted By: Linctex
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
But oils with similar features are a dime a dozen, and I don't see how this one stands out.


I don't see any oils sold anymore for under $10 a quart that have a good level of additives.

"oils with similar features are a dime a dozen"

I haven't seen any. Please provide some examples.

"Good" is a nebulous term that allows you to no-true-Scotsman any example that comes your way. You've also done your math wrong -- $140 for a case of 12 quarts is over $10/qt, not under. And I never mentioned cost anyway. So, this seems more like bait than an honest question. But I will answer if anyone else cares.
_________________________
2011 Mazda RX-8 R3
Mobil Super 5w-20

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