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Diesel Ban? Germany #4674869
02/22/18 09:28 PM
02/22/18 09:28 PM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 2,304
WA (USA)
Y_K Offline OP
Y_K  Offline OP
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 2,304
WA (USA)


"This forum talking about 4wd systems is like when other forums talk about oil."
Re: Diesel Ban? Germany [Re: Y_K] #4674876
02/22/18 09:36 PM
02/22/18 09:36 PM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 6,522
...
PimTac Offline
PimTac  Offline
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 6,522
...
I wonder what they will do when they find out the air is still just as dirty when all the diesel cars are off the roads? Nothing like blowing up the barn when a horse’s shoe needs fixing.


Cannot see signatures any longer so it doesn’t matter.
Re: Diesel Ban? Germany [Re: Y_K] #4674896
02/22/18 09:58 PM
02/22/18 09:58 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 783
USA
97prizm Offline
97prizm  Offline
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 783
USA
Especially since they lag behind the USA in emissions be it diesel or gasoline. Start using us emission rules and end up with cleaner air.


If at first you don't succeed fail fail again. (Waldorf and Statler.)
1997 Geo Prizm
1984 Mazda RX-7 Spec 7
Re: Diesel Ban? Germany [Re: Y_K] #4674905
02/22/18 10:05 PM
02/22/18 10:05 PM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,579
Toronto
PeterPolyol Offline
PeterPolyol  Offline
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,579
Toronto
Let them ban diesels from city centers. I hope they achieve the estimated net benefit they expect, whatever that is.


Scambling for solutions is a hopelessly futile endeavour and potentially dangerous, without first coming to a solid, personal understanding of the problem. Beware riding the ideological hobby horse.
Re: Diesel Ban? Germany [Re: Y_K] #4674952
02/22/18 11:24 PM
02/22/18 11:24 PM
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,228
Europe
SonofJoe Offline
SonofJoe  Offline
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,228
Europe
I think on balance, this needs to happen.

My daughter works in central London and just like Berlin & Paris, on occasions, ground level NOx levels are outrageously & dangerously high. Working in a city should not mean she automatically bears the risk of a premature death. These are first world cities; not Mumbai or Beijing!

In a way it's a shame that it's ended up coming to this with diesels. Europe has historically been very pro-diesel on the grounds of both efficiency & CO2 reduction. However both the OEMs and certain diesel owners have blatantly stuck two fingers up to environmental rules, either by rigging the mandatory emissions control systems not to work or by not replacing DPF innards once they block up. It also doesn't help that there are still a lot of older diesels on the roads that predate the fitting of emission controls which throw out a disproportionate amount of grot.

TBH, if these rules are enacted, it's not going to be the end of civilization as we know it. People who regularly drive/commute into cities will simply buy a small, cheap, efficient & environmentally friendly petrol car & keep their diesels for long, non-city drags up the motorway.

Re: Diesel Ban? Germany [Re: Y_K] #4674971
02/23/18 12:03 AM
02/23/18 12:03 AM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 37,955
Ontario, Canada
OVERKILL Online content
OVERKILL  Online Content
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 37,955
Ontario, Canada
Ahhh yes, the solution is electric busses, which will be charged from power generated by coal. This should be interesting to watch unfold.


2018 RAM 1500 Big Horn EcoDiesel
2016 Grand Cherokee SRT
Re: Diesel Ban? Germany [Re: SonofJoe] #4675026
02/23/18 03:16 AM
02/23/18 03:16 AM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 9,844
Kendall, FL
wemay Offline
wemay  Offline
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 9,844
Kendall, FL
Originally Posted By: SonofJoe
I think on balance, this needs to happen.

My daughter works in central London and just like Berlin & Paris, on occasions, ground level NOx levels are outrageously & dangerously high. Working in a city should not mean she automatically bears the risk of a premature death. These are first world cities; not Mumbai or Beijing!

In a way it's a shame that it's ended up coming to this with diesels. Europe has historically been very pro-diesel on the grounds of both efficiency & CO2 reduction. However both the OEMs and certain diesel owners have blatantly stuck two fingers up to environmental rules, either by rigging the mandatory emissions control systems not to work or by not replacing DPF innards once they block up. It also doesn't help that there are still a lot of older diesels on the roads that predate the fitting of emission controls which throw out a disproportionate amount of grot.

TBH, if these rules are enacted, it's not going to be the end of civilization as we know it. People who regularly drive/commute into cities will simply buy a small, cheap, efficient & environmentally friendly petrol car & keep their diesels for long, non-city drags up the motorway.





+1


18 Sportage 2.4L AWD: Mobil1 Annual Protection 5W20 + Mobil1-104A + e air WIX10335
13 Santa Fe Sport 2.0T: Pennzoil Platinum 10W30 + FRAM XG9688 + e air WIX49670

Re: Diesel Ban? Germany [Re: Y_K] #4675063
02/23/18 05:38 AM
02/23/18 05:38 AM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 381
Va
FFeng7 Offline
FFeng7  Offline
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 381
Va
I think this was done in Greece in Athens and Thessaloniki some years ago. I believe that air quality did improve somewhat but the ban was lifted.

Last edited by FFeng7; 02/23/18 05:45 AM.

2002 Dakota Quad Cab 4x4-Delo XLE 10w30-Fram PH16 Filter
2007 Cobalt LT-Supertech High Mileage Synthetic 5w30-Parts Plus Filter
Re: Diesel Ban? Germany [Re: OVERKILL] #4675065
02/23/18 05:44 AM
02/23/18 05:44 AM
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 182
Houston, TX
czbrian Offline
czbrian  Offline
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 182
Houston, TX
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Ahhh yes, the solution is electric busses, which will be charged from power generated by coal. This should be interesting to watch unfold.


Only about 37% coal according to 2017 data ive seen. Renewables are at 33% in germany, nuclear 12%, and the rest gas or other.

Re: Diesel Ban? Germany [Re: Y_K] #4675067
02/23/18 05:51 AM
02/23/18 05:51 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 806
Romania
Andy636 Offline
Andy636  Offline
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 806
Romania
This is just another trend for the tree huggers, more of a hissy fit they throw now and then to get their life validated...

Diesel cars have never been so clean and efficient as they are now.

Unless they can sell me an electric hatchback for less than 20K euro out the door that can do the equivalent 6L/100Km in mix traffic with a heavy foot, that can be recharged in 10 min and go at least 500 Km in the real world (not the lab estimated [censored] with no lights, no heating or audio down a gentle hill with some light back breeze), all I have to say to the legislators is a big G F Y.

Re: Diesel Ban? Germany [Re: Y_K] #4675075
02/23/18 06:12 AM
02/23/18 06:12 AM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 1,307
New York City
SeaJay Offline
SeaJay  Offline
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 1,307
New York City
Tell the young green folks that they need to give up internal combustion powered vehicles to keep the air clean and they will be all for it and scold those who aren't.

Try telling them that they need to lower the thermostat in the winter and go without A/C in the summer to keep the air clean and they will be rioting in the streets.

Re: Diesel Ban? Germany [Re: Y_K] #4675084
02/23/18 06:29 AM
02/23/18 06:29 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 41,569
'Stralia
Shannow Online content
Shannow  Online Content
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 41,569
'Stralia
Easy answer is zero vehicles in the danger zone.

Shank's pony is the only answer inside the perimeter, unless you value the people who work in (say London), who have higher incomes than the serfs in the outer districts.

eliminate fossil fuels, and there would be no reason whatsoever to commute to London. London would no longer be receiving her tribute.

Re: Diesel Ban? Germany [Re: Y_K] #4675109
02/23/18 07:11 AM
02/23/18 07:11 AM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 595
Margate England
Claud Offline
Claud  Offline
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 595
Margate England
Germany is having to face up to a problem that every major city in the world will have to deal with sometime.
Should we be free to buy machines that create environmental problems?. Every vehicle built does this to greater or lesser degree.
Do we pass legislation draconian enough to prevent this?.

Tough call. I don't know the right answer.

We can deride tree huggers. Until "we take all the trees, put 'em in a tree museum,
Then charge the people a dollar an a half just to see 'em"

We can deride the global warming deniers. Until the worlds economies collapse as industry grinds to a halt.

The worst we can do is fool ourselves into thinking there isn't a problem.

Claud.

Last edited by Claud; 02/23/18 07:11 AM.
Re: Diesel Ban? Germany [Re: Y_K] #4675117
02/23/18 07:25 AM
02/23/18 07:25 AM
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,228
Europe
SonofJoe Offline
SonofJoe  Offline
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,228
Europe
...or you could just make the switch from diesel to gasoline which, with a conventional three way cat, doesn't emit high levels of NOx.

Is that being a tree hugger? Does that automatically quality you as a snowflake? (a stupid insult if ever there was one!)

You get some seriously weird & extreme people on this site. It makes me fear for the future of the entire human race.

Re: Diesel Ban? Germany [Re: czbrian] #4675128
02/23/18 07:36 AM
02/23/18 07:36 AM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 37,955
Ontario, Canada
OVERKILL Online content
OVERKILL  Online Content
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 37,955
Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: czbrian
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Ahhh yes, the solution is electric busses, which will be charged from power generated by coal. This should be interesting to watch unfold.


Only about 37% coal according to 2017 data ive seen. Renewables are at 33% in germany, nuclear 12%, and the rest gas or other.


This is for 2016 unfortunately:



However, it does illustrate that coal is the largest single mode of generation in Germany, and as they try and wean themselves off Nuclear, it will be either replaced by more coal, or Natural Gas, both of which are fossil sources.

I find it somewhat amusing that "Biomass" (we are burning wood and brush) gets lumped in as "renewable", as it is still a carbon source.

Based on that graph, 60.1% of Germany's annual output is generated via sources that emit, at minimum, Carbon Dioxide.


2018 RAM 1500 Big Horn EcoDiesel
2016 Grand Cherokee SRT
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