Fram Ultra Syn filter leaks on new Honda Pilot

[HoosierJeeper]

If possible, I use a gallon Ziploc bag around the filter to catch everything.

On my 09 Grand Cherokee I had, the filter always had to be retightened a few times after an oil change. Don't know why, my Liberty with the same engine never needs that. Or any other vehicle I have.

 

[MasterSolenoid]

My Ford Ranger has a (factory installed) 'funnel' mounted beneath the oil filter to
divert any dripping oil.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Two flat metal surfaces with a rubber gasket in between should not leak.

Like others have said, either the leaking filter was not installed tight enough
OR
it's residual oil dripping off the frame.

If it were me, at the next oil change I would:
1) use another Fram Ultra
2) when removing the filter, prevent old oil from dripping into the frame (use tin foil)
3) recheck filter tightness and clean up any spilled oil
4) slid a drip tray under vehicle until no leaks are confirmed

 

[WellOiled]

Originally Posted By: FlyNavyP3
The filter placement on these is just asking for residual oil left behind on the subframe that will continue to leak for days or weeks after an oil change. That's my bet as to what happened. I just serviced a 2016 Pilot a few weeks ago, made a small catch pan to put under the filter to prevent this prior to taking the filter off. No drips. Owner of the vehicle reported that it dripped for two weeks following the previous oil change.

The neatest and cleanest method of catching the oil from a filter was a freezer bag placed on the filter while spinning the filter off. The mechanic that did it did not spill a drop. I wish I could find the video.

 

[dernp]

Originally Posted By: bubbatime
Leaking filter is 99% of the time an improper installation. Perhaps the old gasket stayed on and he added the filter on top of it (double gasket). Of course when they find a problem, they are not going to admit that they caused the problem, they are just going to blame the filter.


^^^^^+1 on this.

If in fact it was a faulty filter, this leak should'v been discovered on initial start up after the oil change. There's no mention here by the OP if the installer double checked his work once the vehicle was returned.

 

[goodtimes]

Was the correct filter used? XG7317 I believe. Or it could have been cross threaded, After all Fram is thought to be garbage by some and the outward thread on base is much easier to put on crooked. Very fast to blame the filter, would be unusual.

http://www.fram.com/media/1082/standardvsmetric.pdf

 

[Triple_Se7en]

Originally Posted By: HoosierJeeper
If possible, I use a gallon Ziploc bag around the filter to catch everything.




Having only two hands, how can you unscrew the filter and hold both ends of that gallon Ziploc bag? If you hold the bag on either end, it'll tip and/or compress very quickly. Holding the Ziploc bag in the middle would be very clumsy / making it unbalanced in only one hand.

Now I won't be able to sleep until your answer this dilemma.

 

[nthach]

Originally Posted By: FlyNavyP3
The filter placement on these is just asking for residual oil left behind on the subframe that will continue to leak for days or weeks after an oil change. That's my bet as to what happened. I just serviced a 2016 Pilot a few weeks ago, made a small catch pan to put under the filter to prevent this prior to taking the filter off. No drips. Owner of the vehicle reported that it dripped for two weeks following the previous oil change.


This - all the Honda J-series V6s are messy when it comes to oil filter placement, it's as bad as their older motors. While Honda does stock a shield for dealer techs to use, the guys at the dealership just use the paper dealer plates they install during PDIs as a funnel.

 

[builthatch]

Originally Posted By: builthatch
Originally Posted By: PimTac
I would check it myself very carefully while the engine is running. If it’s the filter again I might suspect the old gasket stuck to the mount.


i was under the truck w/ him when it was on the lift and he removed the leaky filter. he had a light shining on the mounting surface when the filter was gone and it looked brand new and oily. there was no gasket there or any indication of damage where the filter sits. i'll definitely be keeping an eye on it and oil levels. annoying!


re-quoting for those who say there may have been another gasket there or that there was some sort of cover-up here re: shoddy work. i saw with my own eyes, there was nothing there.

i have personally done hundreds of oil changes in my life and agree this is rare but not impossible. this is the second time a filter has leaked, though i didn't do this change. the first was a Napa Gold in a '99 Pathfinder, which, incidentally, was also the same size as a Honda filter for a Civic Si i had. but i had used plenty of that exact filter before and after that and never had another problem. it leaked from the same place this fram did - from the seam. nothing is perfect. but it's definitely bad luck for it to be the FIRST fram i use.

Originally Posted By: builthatch
i just jacked the truck up and checked the replacement OE filter that he put on. it's clean. whew. i sprayed the [censored] out of everything under it with Optimum Power Clean (alkaline degreaser), let it dwell for a while and then hosed it out thoroughly.

if my back isn't better before the next change (it better be), i am going to have to fashion some sort of cardboard shield for him to use because i can't believe the positioning of the filter outlet, facing DOWN RIGHT above a rail that is full of holes up top but only a few underneath. it's an oil trap by default.


checked OE filter again this morning - dry. and no residual drips in the driveway, likely from the insane spray down i did, described above. appreciate the input, especially about the ways to control residual oil with this vehicle. it's a real bear.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: builthatch
it leaked from the same place this fram did - from the seam. nothing is perfect. but it's definitely bad luck for it to be the FIRST fram i use.


It was bad luck. Best to play the lottery as luck tends to average out.

Did Fram want the filter back to investigate the issue?

 

[goodtimes]

The seam should show some kind of defect, if it is tight and even all the way around, paint not damaged, not likely at all it is leaking. It really has to be something else IMO. If it was a standard filter used on a race car maybe the seam would bulge and open but on an 017 Honda Pilot?

 

[MetalSlug]

You already know me . Not big fan of fram . Usually other fram fan boys will drown with bad filter commend with other filter brands if this happen . BUT I’m not those type fan boys . I would have say the guy install made a mistake . Either he left the oil gasket on the housing and installl double gasket . Or he dint tight it down enough . Or it could be wrong filter part # .. it’s not the fram ultra filter fault . Or it could be defect filter who know 1 in a hundred will be defect some time . Again it’s not the filter fault . Installer fault . Learn to change your own oil . Its only take 10 min the most with a truck . Mabe 20 for a cars

 

[4WD]

Originally Posted By: MetalSlug
You already know me . Not big fan of fram . Usually other fram fan boys will drown with bad filter commend with other filter brands if this happen . BUT I’m not those type fan boys . I would have say the guy install made a mistake . Either he left the oil gasket on the housing and installl double gasket . Or he dint tight it down enough . Or it could be wrong filter part # .. it’s not the fram ultra filter fault . Or it could be defect filter who know 1 in a hundred will be defect some time . Again it’s not the filter fault . Installer fault . Learn to change your own oil . Its only take 10 min the most with a truck . Mabe 20 for a cars


Two filters in a row and two makes= look for something else.
Double gasket will not leak … they blowout and oil gushes. Can’t have an unrestrained resilient ring under pressure …

 

[goodtimes]

There was someone here recently who measured the Honda filter from Fram and the can gauge was thicker than the standard aftermarket Fram. So why does Honda spec a thicker can? Many thousands use Fram on Honda no problems, but maybe the new Pilot with it's new oil pump put a lot off stress on a filter that maybe was on the marginal end of having a tight seam.

 

[SirTanon]

Even the best-built, best-rated, and most-highly-tested products can fail from time to time.. or can you name a single auto brand that doesn't employ mechanics in service centers (in some way)?

So this one Fram Ultra may have experienced a leak. Could have been a stuck pebble under the gasket, could have been an installation error, or maybe it was just a single faulty filter. Considering how many Fram Ultra success stories there are, I'd say we can view this objectively and move on.

To the OP - Try another Fram Ultra before you swear off them completely. You'll be doing yourself a favor.

 

[DuckRyder]

Originally Posted By: goodtimes
There was someone here recently who measured the Honda filter from Fram and the can gauge was thicker than the standard aftermarket Fram. So why does Honda spec a thicker can? Many thousands use Fram on Honda no problems, but maybe the new Pilot with it’s new oil pump put a lot off stress on a filter that maybe was on the marginal end of having a tight seam.


I think that was me, I’m still not convinced of the measurements and the tread got so derailed I never did any further checking. It may indeed be thicker (an oft repeated “fact”) or it may not be.

I also never made an in-depth post about the obvious differences in the media.

I’m just so sick of the silliness around here I checked out on both issues.

OP, I agree giving the Ultra a second chance would be prudent.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Stiffness and toughness of the can is also based on the composition of metal used. I think on of the Fram videos showing lab tests. the vidoe showed pressure testing that was 300+ PSI to check can integrity.

 

[goodtimes]

Fram uses thicker steel here:

http://www.fram.com/media/1075/fram-racing-filter-sell-sheet.pdf

This is a "fact."
Originally Posted By: DuckRyder
Originally Posted By: goodtimes
There was someone here recently who measured the Honda filter from Fram and the can gauge was thicker than the standard aftermarket Fram. So why does Honda spec a thicker can? Many thousands use Fram on Honda no problems, but maybe the new Pilot with it’s new oil pump put a lot off stress on a filter that maybe was on the marginal end of having a tight seam.


I think that was me, I’m still not convinced of the measurements and the tread got so derailed I never did any further checking. It may indeed be thicker (an oft repeated “fact&#148 or it may not be.

I also never made an in-depth post about the obvious differences in the media.

I’m just so sick of the silliness around here I checked out on both issues.

OP, I agree giving the Ultra a second chance would be prudent.


I thought your measurements seemed pretty close, because the Fram number was about the same as I got. Pretty strong correlation. I measured Toyota filters .016" or so, taken from memory like the Fram number I gave. Toyota Denso Japan about .020" thick. Don't know about other OE filters yet.

Fram uses thicker steel here than their standard filters, doesn't say how much:

http://www.fram.com/media/1075/fram-racing-filter-sell-sheet.pdf

Here is a picture and explanation from Fram's website. No doubt a stronger can material will stress the seam less.

http://www.fram.com/media/1078/overpressurized.pdf

 

[4WD]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Stiffness and toughness of the can is also based on the composition of metal used. I think on of the Fram videos showing lab tests. the vidoe showed pressure testing that was 300+ PSI to check can integrity.


Cutting Mobil 1, Wix XP, and Fram Ultra there is no doubt in my mind the Fram has a thinner wall. But I don’t know the yield strength of the material in any of them … that’s what the ME’s at these companies stay on top of before they put out performance claims …
What me worry? Probably 16 Fram Ultra’s in my filter stash that includes 5 brands …

 

[bullwinkle]

Still think he needs to contact Jay Buckley/motorking, he would like his guys to have a look at the crimp, and the OP would likely get some free filters for his trouble. Maybe there's an issue with the crimping machine on the line?