Finally got Linux Mint Downloaded

[uc50ic4more]

Sierra048, have you thought about just running Linux Mint in a virtual machine? It will essentially run the whole OS in a window while running Windows. You can even run it full-screen. Check out https://www.virtualbox.org/

This way you can run both OS's at the same time; and VirtualBox even supports dragging and dropping and copying and pasting between OS's.

 

[JustinH]

Originally Posted By: uc50ic4more
Sierra048, have you thought about just running Linux Mint in a virtual machine? It will essentially run the whole OS in a window while running Windows. You can even run it full-screen. Check out https://www.virtualbox.org/

This way you can run both OS's at the same time; and VirtualBox even supports dragging and dropping and copying and pasting between OS's.


At home I run virtual machines to do simulations for microsoft server exams.

The OP indicated he had a few years old laptop.

The experience might not be so great to spin up a vm, and try to run that on top of windows.

I have an 8 core machine with 16gb ram, so I can run 4-5 vm's at once for a lab simulation, but running it in a vm may not be optimal.

 

[Sierra048]

uc50ic4more,

Appreciate the suggestion. I don't even know what a virtual machine is. I'm pretty much burned out now. Almost two weeks just get where I am now is enough. I've been able to install and use Linux Mint on my laptop, and still have access to Windows. Two weeks ago I honestly didn't even know what a BIOS was, or what efibootmgr was, or that I could actually change any of it. Being able to turn on my computer and choosing which one to load would have been nice but I'm over that option. Thanks again.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Sierra048
Just curious, how many have just wiped Windows off of their computer and just loaded Linux Mint or any Linux program?

I haven't, mainly because all my machines came with Windows 7, and I actually kind of like it, or I just got so used to it, but W7 has not given me any issues and it natively runs some applications that don't run on Linux.

I have Ubuntu installed (not just Live) on a fast USB drive that I use sometimes when I travel.

I also have one Intel NUC that I use as a home media server. It did not come with any OS, so I installed Ubuntu on it.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: uc50ic4more
- The Mint folks - a very small global team led by one dude who I do not think makes his living with this - are all volunteers and I don't think this project has much of a budget
- For *some* reason, the Mint admins have chosen not to, or are otherwise unable to employ Canonical's signing certificate for Secure Boot

Yes. Mint 15, I think it was, worked with Ubuntu's certificate. After that, no dice. That being said, they should try to play with secure boot updates as little as possible to avoid throwing a curveball at their users. I know what to do if my system comes up straight to Windows without a grub screen after a strange secure boot update. Others may not.

Sierra048: That's a fairly easy fix, if it's what I think it is. What are you seeing when you run:

Code:
sudo efibootmgr


I see this:

Code:
BootCurrent: 0003

Timeout: 2 seconds

BootOrder: 0003,0001,0002,000E,0009,000A,0000,000F,000B,000C

Boot0000* Windows Boot Manager

Boot0001* USB Floppy/CD

Boot0002* USB Hard Drive

Boot0003* ubuntu

Boot0009* CD/DVD Drive

Boot000A* USB Floppy/CD

Boot000B* Hard Drive

Boot000C* Realtek PXE B03 D00

Boot000E* ATAPI CD-ROM Drive

Boot000F* ubuntu


Yes, it's says Ubuntu, but it's Mint. Basically, that's telling me that it starts with 0003 (Mint), then tries 0001 (CD), and so forth. The important thing is that 0003, in my case, is first, which brings up the Grub menu. If you're having the Windows Boot Manager (in my case 0000) as first in your BootOrder, it'll just go into Windows automatically. You can also use the efibootmgr command (type man efibootmgr for some assistance from a command line, or we can help you here, too) to change that order, if it's the problem.

As for running Mint straight and wiping out Windows, I've done it before, and quite happily, to be honest. If you have no need of Windows, it's a good solution. On occasion, I play some Windows games. If it wasn't for that, the Windows partition would have been long gone on this box.

 

[simple_gifts]

Quote:

Just curious, how many have just wiped Windows off of their computer and just loaded Linux Mint or any Linux program? If you have, any regrets? I


So the answer is "It depends on the usage scenario."

If you need to run photoshop, quicken, turbotax, iTunes etc. then linux is not for you; I've been using various linux distributions since maybe 2000; I even paid for boxed distributions since years ago, i only had dialup. Don't miss windows one bit.

The nice part about linux is you can expand your desktop PC well beyond being a desktop PC; you can create folders so that other people in your house can back up their data to your machine, got 1000 digital photos you want to transfer to a friend without emailing or using a 3rd part provider, not a problem, you can transfer them securely (encrypted) by having him log into your PC from his windows PC and pulling them directly PC to PC; the flexibility is phenominal and it all comes at 0$, just the time to learn it;

Your time will be spent LEARNING, not FIXING.

 

[Sierra048]

Garak,

Yes. Mine had the same structure, just different boot #'s. The article I read from the young lady with the same problem and same computer I had said to restructure the boot order with USB first, CD/DVD second, Ubuntu third and Windows forth so that's what I did. I do have several questions for you if you don't mind:

1) This is what I wrote to change the order:
Sudo efibootmgr -o 2001,2002,0002,0001
which is the order I mentioned above. I saved it and checked it before leaving and the new order appeared to have been saved. After rebooting and going straight to Windows, I loaded Mint back up and checked efibootmgr and it reverted back to the way it was before I changed it. Why would it change back?

2) Given #1 above, how does one get changes to remain permanent?

3) Do you believe if I could get 0001 (Ubuntu) to be the first choice in the boot order and remain that way that I would be able to have the dual boot option?


Simple_gifts,

Why won't those programs work on Mint?

 

[Garak]

I would think that setting the "Ubuntu" one as the first choice in the "BootOrder" list might make it permanent. That's what did it for me. Other changes did not. Also make sure that Windows is somewhere in that comma delineated list, too, or you might wind up with a reversion again.

Restructuring with the USB first and CD/DVD second is not necessary, and may, in this case, be counterproductive. It is, at the very least, redundant, because if GRUB comes up first (because Ubuntu is the first choice) you can always choose to select system setup options, which will give you the chance to get into a USB or optical drive boot anyhow. And, if GRUB gets screwed over somehow, you can force into a boot screen with keystrokes anyhow. It might even be more secure in absence of an actual secure boot, but that's a matter for another thread and of little interest in us getting things up and running.

So, I would think yes, if you can get Ubuntu to be first in that delineated list (you can use a -b flag to modify numbers, too) and ensure the Windows boot manager remains on the list, you should be able to get yourself to a persistent dual boot system. If you make the Windows boot manager disappear (which I did by accident the first time), you'll just wind up in the same pickle again.

 

[Sierra048]

Garak,

Thanks. I'll give it a try when get back home this afternoon.

 

[simple_gifts]

Quote:

Simple_gifts,

Why won't those programs work on Mint?



A computer operating system (MasOS, Linux, Windows) is a set of routines that manage hardware resources by scheduling activity and preventing conflicts. Included with those routines are instructions for utilizing them. This is know as an API (application programming interface)

When an application such as Word, iTunes, Photoshop is written, it must interact with the operating system to allocate memory, save files, display things etc. This is done by "calling" APIs that the operating system has documented. Linux, Windoze, MacOS all have different APIs. That is why they are different OSes. Applications that work on MacOS "look alike" primarily by design because they interface with MacOS the same way.

Windows programs will not run on Linux since they are programmed for the Windows OS, which has no similarity to Linux.
When downloading programs, notice there separate downloads for Windows, MacOS etc. This is because each download it targeted for the environment (OS) on which it is intended to run.

Now, here is where an enthusiastic BITOG'r will comment about using a package called "Wine" on linux to run Windows programs, but that is a topic for a different post.

There are many suitable programs on Linux that perform the exact same function as on Windows (but probably better)

Chrome is available for linux, as is firefox (mozilla), thunderbird Skype, various media players (mplayer, vlc), openoffice

Take a look as some of those, what you will find is Mint is much more stable, secure and easy to manage than windows; all the updates for the OS and ALL applications come from one repository; you dont' have to hunt around for application upgrades; the package manager applys them automagically when they are released.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Sierra048
Thanks. I'll give it a try when get back home this afternoon.

Let us know how it goes. Hopefully it's okay if Ubuntu is first and Windows is left somewhere there. Windows doesn't like to get left out, I guess.

 

[Sierra048]

Thanks for the explanation Simple_gifts. Since I don't use a lot of software that may not work with Mint, I think I'll be ok. It appears most of the things I do with a computer, even a Windows computer, will be possible in Mint.

Garak,

I spent two hours monkeying around with the efibootmgr. Below is what it changes to after I make the changes, and I verify that by re-typing "efibootmgr". I'm assuming this is what you would want it to look like?


mike@hP-Pavilion-g6 ~ $ efibootmgr
BootCurrent: 0002
Timeout: 0 seconds
BootOrder: 0002,0001
Boot0001* Windows Boot Manager
Boot0002* Ubuntu
Boot2001* USB Drive (UEFI)
Boot2002* Internal CD/DVD ROM Drive (UEFI)
Boot3001* Internal Hard Disk or Solid State Disk
Boot3002* Internal Hard Disk or Solid State Disk


After shutting down and starting again, it goes right back to Windows on start-up. I then reboot back to Mint, bring up the efibootmgr, and it has reverted back to the same boot order that I changed originally as seen below.


mike@hP-Pavilion-g6 ~ $ efibootmgr
BootCurrent: 0002
Timeout: 0 seconds
BootOrder: 3001,3002,2001,2002
Boot0001* Windows Boot Manager
Boot0002* Ubuntu
Boot2001* USB Drive (UEFI)
Boot2002* Internal CD/DVD ROM Drive (UEFI)
Boot3001* Internal Hard Disk or Solid State Disk
Boot3002* Internal Hard Disk or Solid State Disk

I'm assuming the current boot, being the one I want, is only because that's the one the machine just booted with. If I can't get the boot order to remain the way I changed it to, is it safe to assume I can't achieve my goal? Unless it's not saving efibootmgr permanently after changing it, I'm not sure what else my limited understanding of this whole process can do. Unless you can recognize where I'm messing up, I guess I should just be happy I can at least use Mint and Windows on the same computer without having to use the USB to do it. I mentioned earlier that having to force it to Mint is an inconvenience, I think I can live with it. I'm not a quitter by nature but I'm starting to feel like I'm "just spinning my wheels".

 

[Garak]

That's peculiar. Can you confirm that secure boot is still turned off and legacy boot is enabled? It is behaving as if secure boot is not actually turned off, in this case. We're not licked yet, anyhow! I've got another idea or two to try yet before I have to start digging deeper.

 

[Sierra048]

Originally Posted By: Garak
That's peculiar. Can you confirm that secure boot is still turned off and legacy boot is enabled? It is behaving as if secure boot is not actually turned off, in this case. We're not licked yet, anyhow! I've got another idea or two to try yet before I have to start digging deeper.


Yep. Secure boot is disabled. Legacy boot is enabled. I went to Mint, pulled up efibootmgr and it was the way it was before I changed it. I changed it again, rebooted, and Windows loaded up again. I went back and checked, it was right back to the way it was before I changed it.

mike@hP-Pavilion-g6 ~ $ efibootmgr
BootCurrent: 0002
Timeout: 0 seconds
BootOrder: 3001,3002,2001,2002
Boot0001* Windows Boot Manager
Boot0002* Ubuntu
Boot2001* USB Drive (UEFI)
Boot2002* Internal CD/DVD ROM Drive (UEFI)
Boot3001* Internal Hard Disk or Solid State Disk
Boot3002* Internal Hard Disk or Solid State Disk

It's as if the machine is not saving the changes before the machine reboots with the changes I've made.

Question: After I've made the changes to the efibootmgr file, I'm asked to enter my P.W. and the changed file shows up exactly how I typed it. I assume that the file has been saved. Is there another "command" I should be using to save it? Is the file being saved to Mint, Windows or to the computer itself. Could the changes to the file be done without going into Mint through the terminal? Is there a way to change the file without going into Mint, kinda like changing the Bios settings?

Oh well, it's late anyway and Ms. Sierra048 thinks I'm going crazy so it's time to hit the rack. Thanks for your help.

 

[Garak]

It is saving. It's just reverting on us.

I'll check some stuff on my box at home; I have a pavilion of some sort, too. I wrote a workaround and sent it up to Launchpad some months ago, so I'll have to look back and see if I'm missing something in that regard, or if it's something else with secure boot. I'm still convinced it's something to do with secure boot, and I'm running a couple ideas around in my head.

Just for giggles, try setting 3002 as your first one, do a reboot, see what happens. That will help me sort out one idea.

 

[Sierra048]

Originally Posted By: Garak
It is saving. It's just reverting on us.

I'll check some stuff on my box at home; I have a pavilion of some sort, too. I wrote a workaround and sent it up to Launchpad some months ago, so I'll have to look back and see if I'm missing something in that regard, or if it's something else with secure boot. I'm still convinced it's something to do with secure boot, and I'm running a couple ideas around in my head.

Just for giggles, try setting 3002 as your first one, do a reboot, see what happens. That will help me sort out one idea.


Ok. So I think you're saying to put 3002 as the first one in the boot order. Do I just swap 3001 and 3002 around, put 3002 and nothing else or 3002 followed by 0002 then 0001?

 

[Garak]

It shouldn't matter how, at least for my test, but get 3002 first; that's what I really want to test. Also, when you reboot, is it giving you a boot screen even once, or do you have the reversion after you select to boot to Windows? That's another relatively important distinction. Are you ever getting a GRUB type screen at all?, even once?

 

[Garak]

Now that I got to check my box at home, to look at my BIOS a little more closely, confirm that it states, in your BIOS, that secure boot is disabled and legacy boot is enabled. That's how mine is. I didn't enable or disable any specific devices in BIOS.

 

[Sierra048]

Garak,

Yes, secure boot is disabled and legacy boot is enabled.

Just so I'm on the same page as you, here is what I did:

1) Change the efibootmgr from this:

mike@hP-Pavilion-g6 ~ $ efibootmgr
BootCurrent: 0002
Timeout: 0 seconds
BootOrder: 3001,3002,2001,2002
Boot0000* Notebook Hard Drive
Boot0001* Windows Boot Manager
Boot0002* Ubuntu
Boot0003* Internal CD/DVD ROM Drive
Boot0004* USB Hard Drive - ST3160023A
Boot2001* USB Drive (UEFI)
Boot2002* Internal CD/DVD ROM Drive (UEFI)
Boot3001* Internal Hard Disk or Solid State Disk
Boot3002* Internal Hard Disk or Solid State Disk

To this:

mike@hP-Pavilion-g6 ~ $ sudo efibootmgr -o 3002,3001,2001,2002
[sudo] password for mike:
BootCurrent: 0002
Timeout: 0 seconds
BootOrder: 3002,3001,2001,2002
Boot0000* Notebook Hard Drive
Boot0001* Windows Boot Manager
Boot0002* Ubuntu
Boot0003* Internal CD/DVD ROM Drive
Boot0004* USB Hard Drive - ST3160023A
Boot2001* USB Drive (UEFI)
Boot2002* Internal CD/DVD ROM Drive (UEFI)
Boot3001* Internal Hard Disk or Solid State Disk
Boot3002* Internal Hard Disk or Solid State Disk


I then rebooted my machine. There was no "grub" menu upon start-up. It went right into the HP, then Windows, start-up routines into Windows. I then rebooted again, hit escape, and it brought me to my BIOS options. I chose F9 which allowed me to go to boot options where I selected the Ubuntu option. This selection took me to the screen (labeled grub at the top), and selected Cinanamon, and it loaded Mint.

 

[csandste]

Dual booting difficulties is a reminder that I dual booted Ubuntu 12.04 and Windows for about a week before getting Windows out of there for good. That original computer is still running Peppermint Linux 7 and my main ride is Mint Mate 17.3 which I'll be swapping out for Ubuntu Mate 18.04. In more than four years of being Linux only I've never regretted stomping Windows into the ground. Windows intrusive behavior is but one of many reasons to kick it to the curb.