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#4672813 - 02/21/18 08:30 AM It's still on new Fram website
goodtimes Offline


Registered: 12/08/10
Posts: 2855
Loc: california
www.fram.com/media/1070/fluidfilterrating.pdf

"End-users should also be wary of numbers games they can also be played with B ratios. B ratios higher than 75 indicate little additional improvement in filtering efficiency. Furthermore, the test procedure to develop the B ratio is valid only for B value up to 75. For B ratios of 75 and higher, there are not enough particles in downstream liquid samples to make counting them statistically significant. Another numbers game has to do with illegitimate comparisons. Even though multi-pass data does lend itself to comparison of filters from different manufacturers, it is still necessary for the end-user to be very alert to various ways in which information can be presented. The end-user should be certain that valid comparisons are made, and that these are supported by recognized and accepted test methods."

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#4673215 - 02/21/18 12:44 PM Re: It's still on new Fram website [Re: goodtimes]
ZeeOSix Offline


Registered: 07/22/10
Posts: 17774
Loc: PNW
Since you were involed in the many discussions about ISO 16889 you should realize beta rate ratios can be measured way above beta 75 (98.7%) with a multi-pass test using the correct particle counters.

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#4673394 - 02/21/18 03:05 PM Re: It's still on new Fram website [Re: goodtimes]
WellOiled Offline


Registered: 10/03/15
Posts: 1356
Loc: Houston, Texas
The OP's reference document was published in May 2003. The document is nearly 15 years old. The counters have improved and the test methodology has improved. There is no doubt the new test protocols can test to higher efficiencies with good precision.
_________________________
2004 Ford Ranger 4.0L V6
NAPA Full Synthetic 5W30 + Fram Tough Guard

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#4673395 - 02/21/18 03:05 PM Re: It's still on new Fram website [Re: ZeeOSix]
goodtimes Offline


Registered: 12/08/10
Posts: 2855
Loc: california
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Since you were involed in the many discussions about ISO 16889 you should realize beta rate ratios can be measured way above beta 75 (98.7%) with a multi-pass test using the correct particle counters.


If it was your eyes would see "ISO 16889." The Fram article is 100% correct. If not, please call your boss and tell them to take it down. Please advise their comments pertaining. sailing

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#4673413 - 02/21/18 03:20 PM Re: It's still on new Fram website [Re: goodtimes]
ZeeOSix Offline


Registered: 07/22/10
Posts: 17774
Loc: PNW
^^^ It's been hashed over many times and you never seemed to grasp it. You think it's impossible to measure beta ratio above 75, yet ISO 16889, which uses particle counters in the same way as IOS 4548-12, is specifically meant to measure filters that are super efficient (ie, above beta 75). So as explained before, the level of efficiency measurement is only limited by the capability of particle counters.

The Fram article is talking specifically about ISO 4548-12. Just like the summary statement for ISO 4548-12 says (and also shown many times in the ISO 16889 threads) the test is meant for filters up to beta 75. But testing methods can measure well above beta 75 (ie, ISO 16889).

And ISO 4548-12 also specifically says that for filters that are above beta 75 the measured data can be extrapolated to 100% since there is basically only 1.3% between beta 75 and beta infinity (100%).

It's really not hard to understand.

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#4673524 - 02/21/18 04:44 PM Re: It's still on new Fram website [Re: goodtimes]
BlueOvalFitter Offline


Registered: 02/28/03
Posts: 6003
Loc: Cajun Country, La.
PLEASE tell me that FRAM isn't going to throw this paperwork into every filter that they sell! They will confuse the consumer to no end. Me being one of them.
My oil filter buying procedure;
1) Go to WM.
2) Look inside of the oil filter box of the oil filter I choose.
3) Give the WM cashier my money for the oil filter I selected.
4) Come home, login to BITOG, tell the members in the oil filter forum what filter I bought, have FLAME SUIT on ready to get burned by the members on my choice of filter.


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#4673698 - 02/21/18 07:08 PM Re: It's still on new Fram website [Re: ZeeOSix]
goodtimes Offline


Registered: 12/08/10
Posts: 2855
Loc: california
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
^^^ It's been hashed over many times and you never seemed to grasp it. You think it's impossible to measure beta ratio above 75, yet ISO 16889, which uses particle counters in the same way as IOS 4548-12, is specifically meant to measure filters that are super efficient (ie, above beta 75). So as explained before, the level of efficiency measurement is only limited by the capability of particle counters.

The Fram article is talking specifically about ISO 4548-12. Just like the summary statement for ISO 4548-12 says (and also shown many times in the ISO 16889 threads) the test is meant for filters up to beta 75. But testing methods can measure well above beta 75 (ie, ISO 16889).

And ISO 4548-12 also specifically says that for filters that are above beta 75 the measured data can be extrapolated to 100% since there is basically only 1.3% between beta 75 and beta infinity (100%).

It's really not hard to understand.


My interpretation is you missed the point. Take it up with the boss, they have it up brand new. Good reference section too they have there. I wish they had more racing filter sizes I like their attributes. Give a shout to the boss about that too. approved

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#4673743 - 02/21/18 07:30 PM Re: It's still on new Fram website [Re: goodtimes]
ZeeOSix Offline


Registered: 07/22/10
Posts: 17774
Loc: PNW
^^^ Stop trolling.

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#4673759 - 02/21/18 07:39 PM Re: It's still on new Fram website [Re: ZeeOSix]
goodtimes Offline


Registered: 12/08/10
Posts: 2855
Loc: california
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
^^^ Stop trolling.


It's still on the Fram website regardless of your comments. I'm serious, take it up with them if you think it's wrong. You now are into a different area. Attack the messenger method.

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#4673772 - 02/21/18 07:46 PM Re: It's still on new Fram website [Re: goodtimes]
ZeeOSix Offline


Registered: 07/22/10
Posts: 17774
Loc: PNW
You contact them ... I have no issue with it. What's your whole point of even starting this thread? "Attack the messenger" ... please, stop trolling.

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