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#4672807 - 02/21/18 08:27 AM Conventional question
supton Offline


Registered: 11/09/08
Posts: 12004
Loc: NH
I've long thought that synthetic was better than conventional when it comes to high temperature conditions (like in rings). But is that still as true as it was? Can a good conventional be better than a cheap synthetic in regards to handling heat?
_________________________
2011 Toyota Camry, base, 2.5L/6MT, 162k, hers
2010 Toyota Tundra DC, 4.6L/6AT, 143k, ours
1999 Toyota Camry LE, 2.2L/4AT, 183k, his

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#4672831 - 02/21/18 08:45 AM Re: Conventional question [Re: supton]
Char Baby Offline


Registered: 05/25/05
Posts: 10028
Loc: ROCHESTER, NY
Well, maybe!
I mean, it depends on the additive package of both oils. You know e.g., Pennzoil conventional(PYB) vs., oh lets say, some no name synthetic oil from a discount store.

Or, for the same price, I would take e.g., Super Tech(ST) Synthetic(or ProLine/AAP/AZ syn's etc.) vs. PYB conventional. Sometime, PYB is in fact more money than those said syn. But, they're all good!
_________________________
"Retired"
'80 Firebird FORMULA V8/4bbl-purchased "NEW"
'06 Mazda 3i 2.0L
'15 Nissan Altima 2.5 SV

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#4672850 - 02/21/18 08:54 AM Re: Conventional question [Re: supton]
supton Offline


Registered: 11/09/08
Posts: 12004
Loc: NH
I figure, it's splitting hairs, but why not split when there is nothing else better to do?

IIRC my 5S-FE is "known" for running hot in the rings. Hotter than anything today, or just hotter than normal back in its day? Dunno. I've figured cheap synthetic is better than conventional, but while that may have been true at one point, maybe it isn't anymore.

It's a few bucks either way, not breaking my wallet (so I've been using cheap synthetic) but question remains. I figure the engine really isn't up for 10k OCI's, so does it really need synthetic? OTOH it can & does get flogged for highway merging.
_________________________
2011 Toyota Camry, base, 2.5L/6MT, 162k, hers
2010 Toyota Tundra DC, 4.6L/6AT, 143k, ours
1999 Toyota Camry LE, 2.2L/4AT, 183k, his

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#4672872 - 02/21/18 09:07 AM Re: Conventional question [Re: supton]
MONKEYMAN Offline


Registered: 06/24/04
Posts: 2231
Loc: St. Louis
I have similar concerns. Will use Cheveron Supreme 10w-30 I have in stock this summer but have a concern of ring deposits. I guess after years of having a Saturn I never want coked rings again in any car.
_________________________
Truth alone triumphs, not untruth.

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#4672880 - 02/21/18 09:11 AM Re: Conventional question [Re: supton]
Matagonka Offline


Registered: 02/03/15
Posts: 469
Loc: NC
Even with conventional, if you're scared of sludge, just use some MMO once in a while.

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#4672947 - 02/21/18 09:52 AM Re: Conventional question [Re: supton]
BrocLuno Offline


Registered: 09/06/15
Posts: 5528
Loc: Kalifornia Kollective
Depends on the oil in question. Chevron Supreme is good oil for lots of engines including modified ones that get beat on. Speedol from the dollar store, not so much ...
_________________________
Formerly in marine engineering. In an earlier life I owned my own petroleum tank truck, and hauled for the majors and independent's.

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#4672965 - 02/21/18 10:01 AM Re: Conventional question [Re: BrocLuno]
MONKEYMAN Offline


Registered: 06/24/04
Posts: 2231
Loc: St. Louis
Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
Depends on the oil in question. Chevron Supreme is good oil for lots of engines including modified ones that get beat on. Speedol from the dollar store, not so much ...


Thanks. I have trust issues regarding oil and am not very technically inclined. Part of me knows it is OK. You confirmed what I know, but still hard to let go of fear/doubt.
_________________________
Truth alone triumphs, not untruth.

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#4673041 - 02/21/18 10:40 AM Re: Conventional question [Re: supton]
deven Offline


Registered: 06/28/05
Posts: 3406
Loc: Massachusetts
Originally Posted By: supton
I've long thought that synthetic was better than conventional when it comes to high temperature conditions (like in rings). But is that still as true as it was? Can a good conventional be better than a cheap synthetic in regards to handling heat?

In short the answer is no. Synthetic no matter how cheap it is has more uniform or same size molecules and therefore will dissipate heat at a better and faster rate than conventional oil can ever do.
_________________________
Proud user of ROYAL PURPLE products!

2016 Acura RLX Sports Hybrid(Royal Purple HPS 5w30 + M1-110 oil filter)

KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID. IT'S ONLY OIL

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#4673074 - 02/21/18 11:05 AM Re: Conventional question [Re: deven]
Kira Offline


Registered: 08/19/10
Posts: 5263
Loc: Champlain/Hudson Valley
My "hang up" over conv. vs synth. (and I love both) is that there CAN'T BE ANY PARAFFIN OR "NON OIL" JUNK IN THE SYNTHETIC OIL.

I'm sure you can burn or coke anything if the temp is high enough. I just guess synthetics give you a better shot at initial cleanliness.

I also guess the mechanics of it is that the oil stays liquid and keeps circulating.

I'd suppose the little oil holes in the piston skirts of those Toyota engines stay clear.

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#4673102 - 02/21/18 11:22 AM Re: Conventional question [Re: Kira]
deven Offline


Registered: 06/28/05
Posts: 3406
Loc: Massachusetts
Originally Posted By: Kira
I'm sure you can burn or coke anything if the temp is high enough.

Indeed you can but due to uniform molecules and highly hydrotreated, synthetics just burn much cleaner than conventional oils.
_________________________
Proud user of ROYAL PURPLE products!

2016 Acura RLX Sports Hybrid(Royal Purple HPS 5w30 + M1-110 oil filter)

KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID. IT'S ONLY OIL

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#4673211 - 02/21/18 12:41 PM Re: Conventional question [Re: supton]
rideahorse Offline


Registered: 01/01/15
Posts: 91
Loc: Charles City, Iowa
You guys have been drinking the syn coolade too long. I want to know how much actual temp difference there is between the 2. Not just internet dribble. No matter what you use your motor will last longer than the rest of the car.

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#4673726 - 02/21/18 07:21 PM Re: Conventional question [Re: supton]
BrocLuno Offline


Registered: 09/06/15
Posts: 5528
Loc: Kalifornia Kollective
Sort of true. The ring pack can get hot, but the adjacent cylinder wall should only be maybe 100*F above the water jacket temp, even under load. So as long as there is coolant in the system, there is a practical limit to the upward temp possible.

High quality dino oils will live at 300*F. It's often the viscosity modifiers that burn off and cause coking. So it comes down to the add pack, not the base oils (in many cases) as to what is causing the coking issues.

"Most" synthetics are premium oils and have premium add paks. "Some" dinos are not. So the disparity between the accepted characteristics of dino vs syn. But there are no real hard fast rules. No one can show me a proffessional paper that proves that XYZ engine would have lived longer on say AmsOil than Chevron Supreme ... Or Mobil1 vs PYB ... There is no proof that synthetics actually lube better than premium dino oils.

It depends on the engine topology and the add pak in question. If you buy a name brand quality oil, it will serve you well. You buy el cheapo garbage, you pay the price. Syn vs Dino makes little difference.
_________________________
Formerly in marine engineering. In an earlier life I owned my own petroleum tank truck, and hauled for the majors and independent's.

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#4674004 - 02/22/18 01:52 AM Re: Conventional question [Re: BrocLuno]
wemay Online   happy


Registered: 04/04/12
Posts: 8902
Loc: Southeast Florida
Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
Sort of true. The ring pack can get hot, but the adjacent cylinder wall should only be maybe 100*F above the water jacket temp, even under load. So as long as there is coolant in the system, there is a practical limit to the upward temp possible.

High quality dino oils will live at 300*F. It's often the viscosity modifiers that burn off and cause coking. So it comes down to the add pack, not the base oils (in many cases) as to what is causing the coking issues.

"Most" synthetics are premium oils and have premium add paks. "Some" dinos are not. So the disparity between the accepted characteristics of dino vs syn. But there are no real hard fast rules. No one can show me a proffessional paper that proves that XYZ engine would have lived longer on say AmsOil than Chevron Supreme ... Or Mobil1 vs PYB ... There is no proof that synthetics actually lube better than premium dino oils.

It depends on the engine topology and the add pak in question. If you buy a name brand quality oil, it will serve you well. You buy el cheapo garbage, you pay the price. Syn vs Dino makes little difference.


+1
_________________________
2017 Hyundai Sonata Sport 2.4L
2013 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport 2.0T
Valvoline

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#4674014 - 02/22/18 03:18 AM Re: Conventional question [Re: wemay]
bbhero Offline


Registered: 03/20/15
Posts: 4632
Loc: Virginia
+2

I agree with Brucluno as well. Very well stated.

I will say though when I can get a group 3 oil made by Warren Distribution for $3.29 a quart.. I will be all right with that as well.
_________________________
Nissan Altima 3.5 Coupe Valvoline Advanced Full Synthetic 5w30 Federated Auto 4612ex
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#4674031 - 02/22/18 04:54 AM Re: Conventional question [Re: BrocLuno]
4WD Online   confused


Registered: 09/21/10
Posts: 6425
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
Sort of true. The ring pack can get hot, but the adjacent cylinder wall should only be maybe 100*F above the water jacket temp, even under load. So as long as there is coolant in the system, there is a practical limit to the upward temp possible.

High quality dino oils will live at 300*F. It's often the viscosity modifiers that burn off and cause coking. So it comes down to the add pack, not the base oils (in many cases) as to what is causing the coking issues.

"Most" synthetics are premium oils and have premium add paks. "Some" dinos are not. So the disparity between the accepted characteristics of dino vs syn. But there are no real hard fast rules. No one can show me a proffessional paper that proves that XYZ engine would have lived longer on say AmsOil than Chevron Supreme ... Or Mobil1 vs PYB ... There is no proof that synthetics actually lube better than premium dino oils.

It depends on the engine topology and the add pak in question. If you buy a name brand quality oil, it will serve you well. You buy el cheapo garbage, you pay the price. Syn vs Dino makes little difference.


And now for the 0w20 discussion

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