Lubegard Heavy Duty Engine Protectant VOA

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OK, so I know this is not a "PCMO/HDEO" VOA but there's not a spot for additives. There is a VERY old VOA of Lubegard Bio/Tech on the board, and there have been comments here that the Heavy Duty may or may not be the same, and may or may not have esters etc. I know VOA won't show esters but maybe the TBN/TAN numbers will give some insight. I figured it would be something to help shake off the winter doldrums!
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The sample is getting dropped off at Blackstone this Thursday hopefully to have results by EOB Friday. I've got some other details that will get posted with the VOA. Sorry for any false excitement since the VOA isn't here just yet.
 
Cool. I am using the Biotech (and red, and also got the gear oil for some diff and MT changes coming up) in our cars and will also look for this when it comes.

A buying tip: If you use this stuff regularly, one way to get a good price is to set up price alerts on Camelcamelcamel.com (Amazon price monitoring site). The prices go way up and down constantly. I set up a price alert for when it nears typical price bottoms and then buy a year's supply of what I need at that time. I then having it sitting on the shelf ready to go and usually $8/$10 quart cheaper than if I just order it the week before an oil change or when I run out.
 
Ok so here is the VOA! First off, credit where it is due: major props to Ryan and his peeps at Blackstone, who after minimal scientific prodding agreed to run this VOA on the house for the good of the board. I know some members have (what I consider to be mainly unfounded) concerns about Blackstone’s calibrations, I don’t know of any other oil lab that runs samples for the good of the order! Thanks Ryan and the Blackstone team! Now onto the VOA- holy moly, calcium, and phosphorus! Oh my!
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Thoughts?


 
BTW it was my fault for the delay- I didn’t get to drop this off until Monday evening just before COB, and like clockwork, Blackstone had results waiting by the time I got off work Tuesday afternoon. Great service!
 
To the math guys here what would the actual increase in moly and zinc be in 5 quarts of oil. Example If oil has 100 ppm of moly and 300 ppm of zinc what would this additive add if you used per their instructions. Thanks Guys
 
it all depends on your sump capacity and the amount you add. for 5 quarts, there are 160 ounces. if you add the recommended 3oz/qt you'd get about 9.375% of the benefit of the full Lubegard. So, assuming you have 5 quarts and remove 15 ounces of motor oil and add 15 oz of Lubegard HD, you would see a boost of 229ppm moly, 13.8ppm boron, 183ppm calcium, and 336ppm of zinc. Other volumes would result in slightly different boosts.
 
SubieRubyRoo Thank you very much for the info. Looking at the VOA and not knowing the math makes it look like one heavy load of moly-zinc when in reality it's equal to or a little less the most top oil's add just super concentrated. Again thank you for the explanation.
 
I currently have this in my Odyssey at the recommended rate, with a low-additive D1G2 approved Citgo synthetic (Harvest King 5w30). I think we can all agree that if my UOA shows stellar results (statistically different than previous UOAs) that it is the additive’s effect. If the UOA comes back identical, then at best, the Lubegard did not hinder the oil. This is the first D1G2 oil in my van, previous two OCIs were Pennz Plat Euro 0w40, so just maintaining that performance will be impressive in my book since the oil is $10 plus about $10 in additive. I will say the ol’ J35A7 does feel smoother at highway speeds with the HK/LG combo but is slightly noisier under hard acceleration compared to the PPE. Mileage is up about 50 miles per tank, or about 1%, after going back to a thinner oil.
 
Originally Posted By: SubieRubyRoo
I currently have this in my Odyssey at the recommended rate, with a low-additive D1G2 approved Citgo synthetic (Harvest King 5w30). I think we can all agree that if my UOA shows stellar results (statistically different than previous UOAs) that it is the additive’s effect. If the UOA comes back identical, then at best, the Lubegard did not hinder the oil. This is the first D1G2 oil in my van, previous two OCIs were Pennz Plat Euro 0w40, so just maintaining that performance will be impressive in my book since the oil is $10 plus about $10 in additive. I will say the ol’ J35A7 does feel smoother at highway speeds with the HK/LG combo but is slightly noisier under hard acceleration compared to the PPE. Mileage is up about 50 miles per tank, or about 1%, after going back to a thinner oil.


I'll be looking forward to your UOA.
 
With that much phosphorus and so little zinc, the phosphorus is mostly from tricresyl phosphate (TCP) rather than ZDDP. Interesting VOA. Thanks for posting it.
 
Originally Posted By: SubieRubyRoo
JAG, I'll have to take your word for it since Chemistry was not among my strongest classes in college. I was hoping Molakule or Shannow would have weighed in, but I guess not.


I think the phosphorus chemistry comes from something like this:

http://173.204.54.37:8080/ag/petaddsad/anti-wear-and-extreme-pressure-additives2.html

Most likely the Durad 310M.

It's what we call a, phenol, isopropylated phosphate.
 
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Well JAG and Molakule, not that it definitively answers the question, but I did get a response from Lubegard. Maybe it helps, it does have some interesting implications since they offered without a direct question?

Me: I bought some of your Heavy Duty Engine Protectant and had it analyzed. I noticed the
additive was high in phosphorous but low in zinc; this makes me believe it
is not ZDDP, but possibly tricresyl phosphate or some other source. Could
you share what the source of the phosphorous is please?

Lubegard: Hello Chris,
You are correct that there is no ZDDP in our Engine Oil Protectant. The
phosphorus you mention is present in our proprietary ester technology. The
Bio-Tech is designed to enhance the anti-wear and longevity of gasoline or
diesel engine oil. It improves the ability of the oil to perform other
functions like reducing volatility and preventing LSPI.
Best regards,

Pat Burrow
Technical Director
International Lubricants Inc.
 
Molakule, I read your link after posting my update. They seem to be in line with each other; does Lubegard’s explanation seem to agree to your trained eye?

Oh and thanks for the link; you always post the best stuff we probably would never know to look for!
 
Originally Posted By: SubieRubyRoo
It improves the ability of the oil to perform other
functions like reducing volatility and preventing LSPI.


With as much calcium and sodium as your VOA results show, it had better help reduce the NOACK to near ZERO in order to have any LSPI prevention function (to keep those two elements OUT OF the combustion chamber altogether).

I still have an unopened quart of this product left over from my last (NON GDI, NA, LS1) ride, but I am fearful of using it in an EcoBoost application due to those calcium and sodium levels.
It's a SHAME because all of that moly does help out the LSPI prevention, according to most of the reports/articles I've seen.
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