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Why is "7.5" scoffed at, but 16, 8, and 4 are OK? #4672614
02/20/18 11:56 PM
02/20/18 11:56 PM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 3,983
Southeast Texas
gfh77665 Offline OP
gfh77665  Offline OP
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 3,983
Southeast Texas
Why is "7.5" scoffed at, but 16, 8, and 4 are OK?

Re: Why is "7.5" scoffed at, but 16, 8, and 4 are OK? [Re: gfh77665] #4672622
02/21/18 12:23 AM
02/21/18 12:23 AM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 26,177
Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Garak Offline
Garak  Offline
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 26,177
Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Some are on SAE J300 or have been proposed for it. Others haven't. wink


Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 - Shell ROTELLA T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w-30, NAPA Gold 7356
1984 F-150 4.9L - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515
Re: Why is "7.5" scoffed at, but 16, 8, and 4 are OK? [Re: gfh77665] #4672628
02/21/18 12:38 AM
02/21/18 12:38 AM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,825
Taiwan
Ducked Offline
Ducked  Offline
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,825
Taiwan
Originally Posted By: gfh77665
Why is "7.5" scoffed at, but 16, 8, and 4 are OK?


16, 8, and 4 are completely pointless.

We like completely pointless in these here parts, stranger.

Re: Why is "7.5" scoffed at, but 16, 8, and 4 are OK? [Re: gfh77665] #4672629
02/21/18 12:40 AM
02/21/18 12:40 AM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,891
New Zealand
Silk Offline
Silk  Offline
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,891
New Zealand
7.5 exists in motorcycle fork oil, but that's an application where 0.5 can be noticed...by those who can notice these things.


1987 BMW R65 - Aegis SAE30
2005 Nissan Expert - Gulf Western 10W-40
1996 Volvo T5 - Penrite HPR15 - 15W-60. Ryco syntec filter.
Re: Why is "7.5" scoffed at, but 16, 8, and 4 are OK? [Re: gfh77665] #4672630
02/21/18 12:42 AM
02/21/18 12:42 AM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 538
San Antonio, TX
das_peikko Offline
das_peikko  Offline
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 538
San Antonio, TX
It's 7.25 not 7.5 and I know plenty of carpenters that make a perfectly good living off the 7.25 blade.

Re: Why is "7.5" scoffed at, but 16, 8, and 4 are OK? [Re: gfh77665] #4672641
02/21/18 01:15 AM
02/21/18 01:15 AM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,231
Where the wind comes sweepin'
Reddy45 Offline
Reddy45  Offline
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,231
Where the wind comes sweepin'
Who on earth would make a pizza in 7.5" diameter when you can easily make it 8" (or 16" or 4")?

Re: Why is "7.5" scoffed at, but 16, 8, and 4 are OK? [Re: Reddy45] #4672652
02/21/18 01:51 AM
02/21/18 01:51 AM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 538
San Antonio, TX
das_peikko Offline
das_peikko  Offline
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 538
San Antonio, TX
You mean we're talking about pizzas? In that case I would agree; the 16 inch would be far more preferable.

Re: Why is "7.5" scoffed at, but 16, 8, and 4 are OK? [Re: gfh77665] #4672654
02/21/18 02:02 AM
02/21/18 02:02 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 41,513
'Stralia
Shannow Online content
Shannow  Online Content
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 41,513
'Stralia
The SAE J300 "W" viscosity specs are in ranges...0W, 5W, 10W, 15W, 20W, and 25W....Everything that you mix will fall into ONE of those groups.

SAE (operating temperture) grades now include 8, 12, and 16 as of the last few years, along with 20, 30, 40, 50, and 60...again, everything between 4 and 26.1Cst at 100C falls into one of those grades.

Re: Why is "7.5" scoffed at, but 16, 8, and 4 are OK? [Re: gfh77665] #4672674
02/21/18 04:31 AM
02/21/18 04:31 AM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 3,983
Southeast Texas
gfh77665 Offline OP
gfh77665  Offline OP
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 3,983
Southeast Texas
Clearly arbitrary. Its OK to conjure up the 4, 8, 16 system "just because", but not a "7.5".

Re: Why is "7.5" scoffed at, but 16, 8, and 4 are OK? [Re: gfh77665] #4672677
02/21/18 04:41 AM
02/21/18 04:41 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 41,513
'Stralia
Shannow Online content
Shannow  Online Content
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 41,513
'Stralia
Originally Posted By: gfh77665
Clearly arbitrary. Its OK to conjure up the 4, 8, 16 system "just because", but not a "7.5".


You could call it "blue whisper" if you wanted to make up a grade, to sell to your friends...go your hardest, and call it 7.49998W, but don't link it to J300.

But if you want to use J300 as a reference, then use it as a reference, and it's either 5W or 10W...no one is making up the 8 and 12 (where is your 4 ?)...grades which didn't exist until recently, as they all fell into the "20" in it's original definition, but then fell out of it into no-man's land until a working group made them exist.

You can mark up your speedo in parsecs/millenium, then paint speed limit "bands" onto your speedo too if you like...the speed signs on the highwway will still be in MPH.

Re: Why is "7.5" scoffed at, but 16, 8, and 4 are OK? [Re: gfh77665] #4672681
02/21/18 04:59 AM
02/21/18 04:59 AM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 552
South OZ
KL31 Offline
KL31  Offline
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 552
South OZ
Originally Posted By: gfh77665
Why is "7.5" scoffed at, but 16, 8, and 4 are OK?


Because it's just a grade and not the actual viscosity measurement in cSt. Or are we talking pizza? Because a 4" pizza is definitely too small and 7.5 is an odd size grin2

Last edited by KL31; 02/21/18 04:59 AM.

95 MX-3 2.5L|Shell Helix Ultra 5W40|Wix 51356
04 Focus 1.8L|Wesfil Cooper WZ63|Valvoline MST 5W30
05 Kluger 3.3L|Wesfil Cooper WZ418|Magnatec 10W30 Semi Syn
Re: Why is "7.5" scoffed at, but 16, 8, and 4 are OK? [Re: gfh77665] #4672690
02/21/18 05:33 AM
02/21/18 05:33 AM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 994
PENNSYLVANIA
JeepWJ19 Offline
JeepWJ19  Offline
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 994
PENNSYLVANIA
Because floating point precision is silly for a viscosity grade


2002 Jeep WJ 4.0 | Mobil 1 HM 5w30 |
TG8A | 2.5" lift | 148k miles

Software Engineer :]
Re: Why is "7.5" scoffed at, but 16, 8, and 4 are OK? [Re: JeepWJ19] #4672695
02/21/18 05:47 AM
02/21/18 05:47 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 41,513
'Stralia
Shannow Online content
Shannow  Online Content
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 41,513
'Stralia
Here's Honda's offerings when they weren't happy with J300....
https://global.rakuten.com/en/store/t-joy/item/hondaoil_4rin-012/
Honda "Ultra Next"

https://global.rakuten.com/en/store/t-joy/item/hondaoil_4rin-009/
Honda "Ultra Green Hybrid".

I'm proposing a different system.
VIBGYOR for the low temperature end.
V for Violet, being the coldest end of the spectrum, and Red obviously the hottest...calibrated to Earth, so it's sort of a -40C to +40C thing

Will still use HTHS as the second part of the grading, time 10 to make it meaningful.

So an oil that will start at -40C, and have an HTHS of 3.2 would be a V32. A summer oil here could well be a R32, dropping to a G32 or a Y32 in winter.

Of course a cold snap in Canada or Alaska might need better than a V rating, so there will be a -V for those eventualities.

Re: Why is "7.5" scoffed at, but 16, 8, and 4 are OK? [Re: Shannow] #4672732
02/21/18 07:01 AM
02/21/18 07:01 AM
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,404
New England
Virtus_Probi Offline
Virtus_Probi  Offline
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,404
New England
Originally Posted By: Shannow
...

I'm proposing a different system.
VIBGYOR for the low temperature end.
V for Violet, being the coldest end of the spectrum, and Red obviously the hottest...calibrated to Earth, so it's sort of a -40C to +40C thing

Will still use HTHS as the second part of the grading, time 10 to make it meaningful.

So an oil that will start at -40C, and have an HTHS of 3.2 would be a V32. A summer oil here could well be a R32, dropping to a G32 or a Y32 in winter.

Of course a cold snap in Canada or Alaska might need better than a V rating, so there will be a -V for those eventualities.


I second this proposal, let's bring it to a BITOG floor vote and hopefully we will see oils with these markings in Walmart by March.

But, rather than having -V in a future standard update, I propose to turn the V upside down and make a lambda...


2014 Forester XT, 90000 miles
Last Change;
M1 5W30 d1G2
Tokyo Roki 15208AA170 filter
Re: Why is "7.5" scoffed at, but 16, 8, and 4 are OK? [Re: gfh77665] #4672735
02/21/18 07:02 AM
02/21/18 07:02 AM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 240
NC
kjbock Offline
kjbock  Offline
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 240
NC
Originally Posted By: gfh77665
Clearly arbitrary. Its OK to conjure up the 4, 8, 16 system "just because", but not a "7.5".


You should think of the W rating like a standard grading system in school (with no + or -), i.e. 90-100 is an A, 80-89 is a B, etc.

So if you score a 90, you get an A and if you score a 100, you still get an A, there are no AB's, AA's, A+, A-, etc. Just A, B, C, D or F.

So not arbitrary. You get a W rating based on the test score, simple as that.


2013 BMW 128i - Castrol 0W-40, Mann HU 816X oil filter
2015 Acura MDX - M-1 0W-20 AFE, M-1 M-110
2009 Honda Fit - PUP 5W-20, Fram Ultra XG7317
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