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F-350 Batteries - What Not To Do #4672588
02/21/18 12:05 AM
02/21/18 12:05 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 9,345
Central Coast, Calif.
tom slick Offline OP
tom slick  Offline OP
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 9,345
Central Coast, Calif.
We have a small fleet of vehicles at work with forklifts, trucks, and tractors. The guy in charge of maintenance ( as an additional duty) takes care of them like his own; in over his head, being cheap with repair parts, and cobbling things together.
Today I was asked (again) to use “my” battery tester. I purchased a tester for the company that walks you the test sequence but I still get asked if I can test them. I asked what the problem was and was told “I’ve had to jump start the F-350 (2013 Powerstroke) for the past few mornings but it starts fine all day. I changed the battery not that long ago and the terminals look good, I can’t figure it out”. I go out to the running truck and can smell a battery boiling. He had changed one battery awhile back but the other was the original. Now both batteries are bad. Being cheap and changing only one battery in the end cost more.

This same guy has changed a starter because the forklift wouldn’t start, then changed the battery because it was dead, then realized the alternator belt was loose. It squealing for weeks was never a clue.


You get what you pay for...
So keep in mind how much you paid for this advice.
Re: F-350 Batteries - What Not To Do [Re: tom slick] #4672591
02/21/18 12:13 AM
02/21/18 12:13 AM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,471
Waco, TX
Linctex Offline
Linctex  Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,471
Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: tom slick
He had changed one battery awhile back but the other was the original. Now both batteries are bad. Being cheap and changing only one battery in the end cost more.


Ironically....

I swapped the Cummins into my F250 in summer 2007, and had one Group 78 MAXX-1 that was (near new) given to me, but it was dead. It charged up just fine.... so I went to walmart and got another exactly like it (albeit 7 mos newer) and swapped the pair into my truck.

The pair lasted until summer 2015.... 8 years. Go figure.

I guess even a broken clock shows the right time twice a day........


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: F-350 Batteries - What Not To Do [Re: tom slick] #4672740
02/21/18 08:06 AM
02/21/18 08:06 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,594
SE Texas
2015_PSD Offline
2015_PSD  Offline
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,594
SE Texas
My 2015 had to have both batteries changed under warranty in less than a year because the positive posts on both were leaking acid and starting to corrode the cables. So far, so good on the replacements, but like yourself, I would never change just one of them--even on my own dime.


2018 MB AMG GLC43 3.0L Coupe - Castrol 0W-40/Purflux
2018 MB C300 2.0L - M1 0W-40/OEM
2015 F-250 6.7L PS Diesel - Delo 15W-40/CQ Blue
2014 Explorer 3.5L Limited - M1 AFE 0W-20/FU
Re: F-350 Batteries - What Not To Do [Re: tom slick] #4672792
02/21/18 09:15 AM
02/21/18 09:15 AM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 4,979
Houston, Texas
motor_oil_madman Offline
motor_oil_madman  Offline
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 4,979
Houston, Texas
Had this problem on my truck. One battery dies then pulls the other one down when it's off resulting in a no start.

Last edited by motor_oil_madman; 02/21/18 09:15 AM.

2007.5 dodge cummins 6.7 liter. Chevron Delo400 15w40. 7000 mile or 250-300hr intervals.

Re: F-350 Batteries - What Not To Do [Re: tom slick] #4672802
02/21/18 09:21 AM
02/21/18 09:21 AM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,050
Lakeside, CA
Blkstanger Offline
Blkstanger  Offline
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,050
Lakeside, CA
A coworker of mine just had a battery die on his Ford F-250. He took it to a shop and they told him that they recommend replacing both for this reason.
Common problem on these duel battery systems.


99 Jeep WJ 4.7 190,000 Maxlife 10w30, Fram Ultra.
Re: F-350 Batteries - What Not To Do [Re: tom slick] #4672886
02/21/18 10:13 AM
02/21/18 10:13 AM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 448
South Carolina
pcoxe Offline
pcoxe  Offline
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 448
South Carolina
When charging batteries in series, the one with the higher internal resistance will receive a higher voltage than the other. Older batteries have higher resistance. Matched batteries will receive an equal charge. Easiest way to match batteries is for both to be new.

Re: F-350 Batteries - What Not To Do [Re: tom slick] #4672921
02/21/18 10:42 AM
02/21/18 10:42 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 12,038
Idaho
CT8 Online content
CT8  Online Content
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 12,038
Idaho
My wife has a 2002 7.3 and the batteries never make 3 years and one battery will be bad and the other will boil. I change them ever 2.5 years as a prophylatic. I remember one morning when my wife was leaving hearing the engine missing really bad in the drive way and thinking oh nooooooooo . I took a couple of deep breaths and checked the batteries and one was bad, I put 2 new batteries in and the truck ran like new. I don't know how the new engines run with marginal batteries.


2015 Ford F150 2.7
2018 Ford F350 6.2
Re: F-350 Batteries - What Not To Do [Re: Linctex] #4672930
02/21/18 10:46 AM
02/21/18 10:46 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 12,038
Idaho
CT8 Online content
CT8  Online Content
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 12,038
Idaho
The 6 inline Cummins sure as a better feel that the V8.


2015 Ford F150 2.7
2018 Ford F350 6.2
Re: F-350 Batteries - What Not To Do [Re: pcoxe] #4672943
02/21/18 10:52 AM
02/21/18 10:52 AM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 10,597
Nokesville, VA
brianl703 Offline
brianl703  Offline
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 10,597
Nokesville, VA
Originally Posted By: pcoxe
When charging batteries in series, the one with the higher internal resistance will receive a higher voltage than the other. Older batteries have higher resistance. Matched batteries will receive an equal charge. Easiest way to match batteries is for both to be new.


So the F-350 has a 24 volt electrical system?

You learn something new every day.

Re: F-350 Batteries - What Not To Do [Re: tom slick] #4674375
02/22/18 01:24 PM
02/22/18 01:24 PM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 7,152
Leamington, ON, Canada ..... r...
Papa Bear Offline
Papa Bear  Offline
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 7,152
Leamington, ON, Canada ..... r...
2 batteries in parallel 12V, not 2 batteries in series 24v


2016 Dodge GC Deep Cherry 5W-30 Dino
2013 SYM Wolf Classic 150 T4 15W-40
2009 V-Star 250 Black Cherry 20W-50 Dino
https://www.hogsforhospice.com/
Friend of Bill W. since '89

Re: F-350 Batteries - What Not To Do [Re: tom slick] #4676311
02/24/18 11:11 AM
02/24/18 11:11 AM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,214
Toronto, Canada
George7941 Offline
George7941  Offline
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,214
Toronto, Canada
I have to go against the combined wisdom of all the contributors to this thread and state that while it is optimal to have matched batteries, it is really not as critical as many many folks make it out to be. Especially with the older dumber charging systems which did not sense charging current but only regulated voltage, they just limited charging voltage to 14.4V or thereabouts. With that kind of system, you could have a truck battery, size 31, and a motorcycle battery, 10AH, in parallel and neither battery is going to get overcharged.

With current sensing charging systems, yes, it can be an issue because, depending on the mode of failure of one of the two batteries, it could be drawing excessive current, leading the charging system into thinking that the batteries are discharged and raising the charging voltage beyond what is optimal.


2006 GMC Sierra 4.3l, NV3500,G80 , Mobil 1 5W30, Dexcool.
1987 BMW R80 - sold
2015 Honda CBR300R

Staying out of the right lane a lot.
Re: F-350 Batteries - What Not To Do [Re: tom slick] #4677063
02/24/18 11:05 PM
02/24/18 11:05 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 10,597
Nokesville, VA
brianl703 Offline
brianl703  Offline
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 10,597
Nokesville, VA
It's far more critical to have a matched set of batteries if they are in series.

As we've established that the F-350 has the batteries in parallel, it doesn't matter quite as much, so long as one of the batteries doesn't have some kind of internal fault (like a shorted cell) that will cause it to drain the other battery.

If one of the batteries has just lost capacity, that really doesn't matter for a parallel battery connection.

Re: F-350 Batteries - What Not To Do [Re: brianl703] #4677179
02/25/18 02:32 AM
02/25/18 02:32 AM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,214
Toronto, Canada
George7941 Offline
George7941  Offline
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,214
Toronto, Canada
My thoughts, exactly. As you can see from most of the replies to this thread, a majority think that parallel batteries must be matched. Not necessarily!


2006 GMC Sierra 4.3l, NV3500,G80 , Mobil 1 5W30, Dexcool.
1987 BMW R80 - sold
2015 Honda CBR300R

Staying out of the right lane a lot.
Re: F-350 Batteries - What Not To Do [Re: George7941] #4680212
02/28/18 04:06 AM
02/28/18 04:06 AM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 5,539
Fort Lauderdale, FL
DoubleWasp Online content
DoubleWasp  Online Content
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 5,539
Fort Lauderdale, FL
Originally Posted By: George7941
I have to go against the combined wisdom of all the contributors to this thread and state that while it is optimal to have matched batteries, it is really not as critical as many many folks make it out to be. Especially with the older dumber charging systems which did not sense charging current but only regulated voltage, they just limited charging voltage to 14.4V or thereabouts. With that kind of system, you could have a truck battery, size 31, and a motorcycle battery, 10AH, in parallel and neither battery is going to get overcharged.

With current sensing charging systems, yes, it can be an issue because, depending on the mode of failure of one of the two batteries, it could be drawing excessive current, leading the charging system into thinking that the batteries are discharged and raising the charging voltage beyond what is optimal.


There's one thing you are missing here. The way they like to do these things is to have the alternator sense from one battery (connected straight to vehicle electrical) and charge the other one (at the end of the combining charge cable), with the charge coming back through the combiner to the sense battery. This is how the "one dead, one boiling" happens. Mismatch the batteries, and the S will hit the fan faster.

When the system only senses and charges one battery, it's almost worse. The second battery just gets whatever the primary battery requires, regardless of what's really going on there.

This is why in the marine business, boats with multiple batteries generally use combiners and isolators. Either a regular dumb alternator charges into a box that doles the power out completely independently to each battery's needs, or a dumb alternators send its charge toward the main battery, and then the combiner cable has a box spliced into the center of it that doles out the power as prescribed for the secondary battery.

With either method, any battery can do whatever it wants without affecting the others, since they are isolated.

With either method, you can hook a wire to the starter's signal circuit that will combine all batteries for starting, and then isolate them once starting is complete.

With the second method, an indicator light is mounted to the dash that shows when the secondary battery's charging is going on. If the light is on too much, you know there is a problem.

The first method is definitely preferable.


07 Lincoln Navigator M1 0w-40/FU
68 Charger R/T / Supercharged 440 VR1/DBL7349
07 Ram 3500 4x4 / Cummins 6.7 /DBL7349
17 Maserati GranTurismo Cabrio

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