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#4670430 - 02/19/18 12:40 AM Toyota filters deserve more cred.
DrRoughneck Offline


Registered: 02/05/16
Posts: 514
Loc: USA
Recently Toyota bought back 2007 Toyota Tundra with 1,000,000 miles from a customer. It had been serviced at the dealership its entire life.

That means Toyota filters its entire life.

They proceeded to put the truck on a dyno then took the engine apart.
The truck made more power on the dyno than when new (common once an engine is broken in) and all engine parts were still within spec.

Some people will go on tangents about filtration % and micronic particle sizes etc...

Me, I judge a tree by the fruits it bears.

The fruit I see is that engine protection provided by Toyota/Lexus filters is outstanding, if not overkill, and at $6 a piece, they're a [censored] of a deal.

Has any filter manufacturer ever showed the world any such documented engine longevity from using their product?

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#4670433 - 02/19/18 01:02 AM Re: Toyota filters deserve more cred. [Re: DrRoughneck]
fisher83 Offline


Registered: 01/26/12
Posts: 404
Loc: Omaha, NE USA
I believe Million Mile Joe said he used Honda OEM oil filters the whole time on his 1990 Honda Accord.
_________________________
2015 Toyota RAV4 Limited 41k
2016 Nissan Frontier Pro-4x 18k

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#4670434 - 02/19/18 01:03 AM Re: Toyota filters deserve more cred. [Re: DrRoughneck]
Macgyver452 Offline


Registered: 07/19/16
Posts: 41
Loc: USA
Personally, I think it's more the engine than the filter itself. Toyota has been known for their outstanding engine reliability in the past. Their engines could probably run with no oil filter and still last lol.

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#4670455 - 02/19/18 03:53 AM Re: Toyota filters deserve more cred. [Re: DrRoughneck]
Kruse Offline


Registered: 10/05/05
Posts: 4294
Loc: Kansas
The owner put 125,000 miles on a year, which means the engine never really cooled down between startups. He was from Louisiana, which means he didn't see as much road salt as a vehicle from a northern state.
I'm betting any other oil filter on the market would have made it to a million miles.

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#4670478 - 02/19/18 06:13 AM Re: Toyota filters deserve more cred. [Re: DrRoughneck]
dnewton3 Offline



Registered: 05/14/07
Posts: 7389
Loc: Indianapolis, IN
I've said it many times before, and will continue to do so ...

Oil filters are necessary, but the delineation of efficiency is moot! Many around here understand that the best oil filter is a good air filter. Many tests from SAE files show that silica is far more important to control. The Donaldson "total filtration" study shows that so very clearly; the #1 contributor to engine wear is ambient intake based.

After that, soot is the next concern. Soot starts out sub-micron in size; smaller than even what a BP filter can catch. As oil add-packs have improved, the detergents and anti-agglomerates keep the soot very small; so small that it does not co-join and make bigger soot balls. Additionally, because of fuel injection strategy, combustion has become very clean, contrasted to the days of old. Engines just run a LOT cleaner overall; less soot is produced in the first place. So as long as your oil add-pack is healthy, then you're not going to get a lot of soot amalgamation, hence not a lot of soot abrasion.

Whatever is left in the steam particle, the FF filter will catch as long as it's big enough to be caught at all. But, the frequency (existence) of the large particles is far less than what folks think. The efficiency of the filter does not play a large role in terms of mathematical advantage; having 99% vs 80% (or even 50%) does not mean a lot when there's not that much large stuff to begin with.

Most of us agree that particles between 5um and 15um are the most concerning; they'd be capable of doing the most damage. But FF filters don't catch much below 10um with any regularity at all. That means anything 5um-10um is ALWAYS in play, but ONLY if it's present. If the soot does not get that big, and the air filter does it's job of stopping silica particulate, then the reason we don't see a lot of wear even using a moderate (50%) filter is because the junk is not present in the oil stream! An oil filter cannot remove what is not present, or is too small to be caught. So, if we see clear evidence that wear is low, and yet we know the filter is incapable of catching stuff below 10um, then we can reasonably conclude that it's just not present in the first place, with any regularity!


Just as with oils, people need to quit looking at the inputs of filtration and focus on results.

Wear data tells us that filtration efficiency of the lube filter is moot; it just does not create a tangible difference in wear control.


Edited by dnewton3 (02/19/18 06:15 AM)
_________________________
The act of preventative maintenance, in and of itself, is FAR MORE important than brand/grade/base choices among lubes and filters.
- under maintaining something is akin to abuse/neglect; that can kill equipment by shortening the lifespan
- over maintaining something has never been proven to be anything but a waste of time and money

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#4670479 - 02/19/18 06:13 AM Re: Toyota filters deserve more cred. [Re: DrRoughneck]
Gebo Offline


Registered: 09/18/02
Posts: 2079
Loc: VA
Dr Roughneck,

Great example of excellent fruit! I've spent hours trying to determine what the "best" oil filter is for my vehicles. This is great testimony of the value of Toyota OEM filters.


As far as your question, I don't know of any other documented instance of another oil filter running a million miles. There may be but I'm not aware of one.
_________________________
'98 LEX LS400 280K
'00 LEX GS300 195K
'02 4Runner 225K
'05 Lex LS430 85K
'06 Toyota Highlander 145K
'09 Lex IS350 85K


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#4670484 - 02/19/18 06:27 AM Re: Toyota filters deserve more cred. [Re: DrRoughneck]
mobilaltima Offline


Registered: 02/03/11
Posts: 1148
Loc: Golden Meadow, LA
The owner of the million mile Tundra and the dealership where it was serviced, Greg Leblanc Toyota, is an hour drive from my house. I wanted to see it when they had it on display but didnt get the chance to.
_________________________
2006 2500 Dodge 5.9 Cummins Mobil Delvac 15W40, Fleetguard Stratapore 90k miles
Early '99 F250 ECLB 7.3 Stroker, 223k miles

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#4670509 - 02/19/18 07:16 AM Re: Toyota filters deserve more cred. [Re: DrRoughneck]
Triple_Se7en Offline


Registered: 12/04/04
Posts: 8753
Loc: 1/2 hr. north of Detroit
Both of those Toyota and Honda million miles claims could have been achieved using my RockAuto Premium Guards for $1.47 apiece.

No need to buy top-notch oil filters with today's digitally-designed engines that no longer sludge and new-age fibers used for gasket seals around the engine, to minimize coolant, gasoline and water contamination..

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#4670556 - 02/19/18 08:02 AM Re: Toyota filters deserve more cred. [Re: DrRoughneck]
bullwinkle Offline


Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 7657
Loc: Cincinnati, OH, USA
Yes-just goes to show that getting the oil hot, running long distances at highway speeds and operating temperatures, and changing regularly with just about anything halfway decent is good enough. I'd like to see his maintenance history-at 5K changes, that's 200 oil changes, or more than 2 per month! Some of the dealers around here, that could pay for ANOTHER new Tundra!
_________________________
06 Ram 3500 CTD 4X4(FG Venturi), 93 GMC C3500 6.2, 89 F-450 7.3, 98 XJ 4.0(XG8A), 05 xB(XG3600), 15 Transit 3.7, 03 Merc Grand Marquis 4.6 2V(XG2)

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#4670607 - 02/19/18 08:47 AM Re: Toyota filters deserve more cred. [Re: DrRoughneck]
goodtimes Offline


Registered: 12/08/10
Posts: 2846
Loc: california
The OE filter is a tested part. That doesn't sound like a company who only puts the cheapest parts on to get through the warranty. Don't rock the filtration % boat. sailing Don't bomb Oil Filter Fantasy Island. #joking #forumaddiction It takes so little effort to say any other filter would do the same as opposed to a real test with proof.

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#4670616 - 02/19/18 08:57 AM Re: Toyota filters deserve more cred. [Re: goodtimes]
DrRoughneck Offline


Registered: 02/05/16
Posts: 514
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: goodtimes
The OE filter is a tested part. That doesn't sound like a company who only puts the cheapest parts on to get through the warranty. Don't rock the filtration % boat. sailing Don't bomb Oil Filter Fantasy Island. #joking #forumaddiction It takes so little effort to say any other filter would do the same as opposed to a real test with proof.

This.

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#4670622 - 02/19/18 09:08 AM Re: Toyota filters deserve more cred. [Re: DrRoughneck]
Brybo86 Offline


Registered: 10/08/11
Posts: 2947
Loc: Chicago, IL
I'm gonna start using Toyota filters on my dodge intrepid and see how long it lasts...

This is a testament to the engine not the filter.
_________________________
08 Honda Accord EX-L 2.4L M1 EP 0w20 145k
01 Kymco People 50
95 Lexus LS400 M1 AFE 0w30 193k
95 Yamaha Jog

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#4670688 - 02/19/18 09:54 AM Re: Toyota filters deserve more cred. [Re: Brybo86]
CT8 Offline


Registered: 10/09/14
Posts: 10925
Loc: Idaho
Originally Posted By: Brybo86
I'm gonna start using Toyota filters on my dodge intrepid and see how long it lasts...

This is a testament to the engine not the filter.
Engine life is determined by operation, build quality and maintenance.
_________________________
"Don't let your preconceived notions get in the way of facts."
Geoff Metcalf

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#4670763 - 02/19/18 11:17 AM Re: Toyota filters deserve more cred. [Re: goodtimes]
ZeeOSix Offline


Registered: 07/22/10
Posts: 17765
Loc: PNW
In the case of this 1M mile Toyota it's true that any filter would have resulted in the same due to the extremely high amount of highway miles and regular oil changes. When those situations aren't present is when higher efficient filters can help make a difference; it's been proven in engine wear studies. So a one million mile Toyota dispells every wear study ever done - not a conclusion I buy into.

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#4670780 - 02/19/18 11:29 AM Re: Toyota filters deserve more cred. [Re: dnewton3]
Rolla07 Online   content


Registered: 11/05/11
Posts: 4733
Loc: MTL, CANADA
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
I've said it many times before, and will continue to do so ...

Oil filters are necessary, but the delineation of efficiency is moot! Many around here understand that the best oil filter is a good air filter. Many tests from SAE files show that silica is far more important to control. The Donaldson "total filtration" study shows that so very clearly; the #1 contributor to engine wear is ambient intake based.

After that, soot is the next concern. Soot starts out sub-micron in size; smaller than even what a BP filter can catch. As oil add-packs have improved, the detergents and anti-agglomerates keep the soot very small; so small that it does not co-join and make bigger soot balls. Additionally, because of fuel injection strategy, combustion has become very clean, contrasted to the days of old. Engines just run a LOT cleaner overall; less soot is produced in the first place. So as long as your oil add-pack is healthy, then you're not going to get a lot of soot amalgamation, hence not a lot of soot abrasion.

Whatever is left in the steam particle, the FF filter will catch as long as it's big enough to be caught at all. But, the frequency (existence) of the large particles is far less than what folks think. The efficiency of the filter does not play a large role in terms of mathematical advantage; having 99% vs 80% (or even 50%) does not mean a lot when there's not that much large stuff to begin with.

Most of us agree that particles between 5um and 15um are the most concerning; they'd be capable of doing the most damage. But FF filters don't catch much below 10um with any regularity at all. That means anything 5um-10um is ALWAYS in play, but ONLY if it's present. If the soot does not get that big, and the air filter does it's job of stopping silica particulate, then the reason we don't see a lot of wear even using a moderate (50%) filter is because the junk is not present in the oil stream! An oil filter cannot remove what is not present, or is too small to be caught. So, if we see clear evidence that wear is low, and yet we know the filter is incapable of catching stuff below 10um, then we can reasonably conclude that it's just not present in the first place, with any regularity!


Just as with oils, people need to quit looking at the inputs of filtration and focus on results.

Wear data tells us that filtration efficiency of the lube filter is moot; it just does not create a tangible difference in wear control.


Couldnt agree more and matches my experience with the Proselects Ive been using.
_________________________
2007 Corolla Red Pearl 155k miles
PP 0w20 & ST 4967


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