Auto engine start/stop and effects on engine wear?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Originally Posted By: Olas
In one way it doesn't matter because pumps are volumetric and you have an ADBV so oil is always at the bearing, but...

In my experience the feature can be turned off, though usually the map prevents the feature from operating below a preset temp (probably thermostat temp?) to prevent an excess of cold starts. This feature saves unnecessary wear on bearings, but in turn places more strain on the battery, alternator and starter motor.

To deal with the extra wear on these components they are bigger/beefier/overbuilt compared to conventional equipment, so they last 'long enough' but cost more to replace when they fail.

Ultimately, it depends how many miles you do to determine if the fuel saving outweighs potential associated costs..


Sorry for bringing up an old thread here, but this is the best answer I've been able to find to my question.

I am out looking for an Escape or an Edge with an EB 2.0 like I have in my ST. I keep seeing that in these two examples that they have auto start-stop "technology". Growing up in the 80's and 90's you never turned off a turbocharged car immediately when you reached your destination. You would wait for 10-30 seconds (or longer depending on the beating the car just took) for the turbo to spool down some and cool then turn it off. It seems to me the turbo in this EB 2.0 gets worked hard (it certainly does in my ST). When it is constantly being turned off and restarted with this auto start-stop, what is protecting the bearings in the turbo with no oil pressure? Is it really the oil filter ADBV holding at least some oil at the turbo's bearings in a turbo that is still spinning what, 50,000 RPM's or more when suddenly there is no oil pressure? Does anyone absolutely know what the auto manufacturers are doing to mitigate this lack of oil flow to the turbo over and over again? Is it really just the ADBV?
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
I doubt that they'd stop the engine if the turbo was doing any decent speeds in their testing...but I really don't know.

Mahle mention turbos briefly here
http://www.mahle-aftermarket.com/eu/en/n...or-the-car-6777

Here's some of their bearing commentary.
https://www.mahle-aftermarket.com/media/...rt-stopp_en.pdf


The first link says:
For turbocharged vehicles, it is advisable after a long drive under a high load to switch off the stop-start system until the exhaust system and the turbocharger have reached a moderate temperature level again.

And the second link talks about main bearings.

Since the engine is warm when this "technology" kicks in, I don't think the main bearings will take much damage from this over and over again. As I understand it, main bearings typically take their damage with cold starts. Our Ranger's old 4.0 is audibly not a fan of super cold starts with thick oil and not a fan of warm running with thin oil.

Back to the point... Exhaust will still be flowing past the turbo until it turns off so the turbo is spinning and spinning fast. If the turbo under full boost is 100,000 RPM or faster, I am guessing at idle it is 30-50,000. I know I can hear mine on the ST bark it's first wooosh 2 or 3 seconds after it starts cold. So lets say I am driving down the road at 2k rpm's all warmed up then pull up to a light, this auto start-stop says the conditions are right and kills the engine and the turbo's oil pressure, the turbo will still be at spinning and fast with no oil pressure and just left with whatever is held there by the ADBV?
 
Originally Posted By: BobThe

Since the engine is warm when this "technology" kicks in, I don't think the main bearings will take much damage from this over and over again. As I understand it, main bearings typically take their damage with cold starts. Our Ranger's old 4.0 is audibly not a fan of super cold starts with thick oil and not a fan of warm running with thin oil.


The second that the engine starts to crank is metal to bearing line contact, cold or hot...zero hydrodynamics, which as Mahle state is hard on bearings.

Apologies as I was adding to the topic at hand, reinforcing the quote that you found desirable...I'll stick to turbos now that it's your thread.
 
No worries. And yes, my (minor) worry is a hot spinning Turbo and no oil pressure. I mean, my Dad has a Fusion with an EB 2.0 in it and it has almost 100k on it. It isn't doing any start-stop nonsense mind you, but he is not one of us... His Fusion is what cars are to most people. It's an appliance. He is a "bring it to the dealer sometime after the OLM says to" guy. And there is nothing wrong with that and it gives me confidence in that engine.

I am...70% sure Ford wouldn't implement this "technology" without lots of testing. That said, they *did* implement that pathetic "powershift" (I am not sure if it is a single or dual clutch auto. I just know that it is garbage) transmission in the lower flavors of regular Focus and Fiesta's...
 
Originally Posted By: PimTac
I was reading a discussion on this earlier and in particular on Mazda’s istop technology which they implemented in the US vehicles for 2018. Interesting how piston position and combustion instead of starter motors is used to restart the engine as quick as 0.4 seconds.

http://www.mazda.com/en/innovation/technology/env/i-stop/


As long as it can be disabled, no problem. If I can't disable or buy something that can, I'll pass and look for a brand that can be disabled.
 
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: PimTac
I was reading a discussion on this earlier and in particular on Mazda’s istop technology which they implemented in the US vehicles for 2018. Interesting how piston position and combustion instead of starter motors is used to restart the engine as quick as 0.4 seconds.

http://www.mazda.com/en/innovation/technology/env/i-stop/


As long as it can be disabled, no problem. If I can't disable or buy something that can, I'll pass and look for a brand that can be disabled.



I had read that somewhere in the settings the system may be set to off as the default. I haven’t seen that in person to confirm though.
 
Originally Posted By: PimTac
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: PimTac
I was reading a discussion on this earlier and in particular on Mazda’s istop technology which they implemented in the US vehicles for 2018. Interesting how piston position and combustion instead of starter motors is used to restart the engine as quick as 0.4 seconds.

http://www.mazda.com/en/innovation/technology/env/i-stop/


As long as it can be disabled, no problem. If I can't disable or buy something that can, I'll pass and look for a brand that can be disabled.



I had read that somewhere in the settings the system may be set to off as the default. I haven’t seen that in person to confirm though.


If that's the case then no problem for me.
 
Back in the good old days, starters usually started
going south at around 78-80 thousand miles.
Things seemed to have gotten better with newer designs and
better materials, etc...
Now with stop/start the starter motor might no last for
those many thousands of miles like before.

My 2¢
 
Originally Posted By: dwendt44
Back in the good old days, starters usually started
going south at around 78-80 thousand miles. ...
Not decent ones. All my earlier cars listed below went beyond that short life, and not one ever had any trouble with the starter.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top