Alabama picked for Toyota-Mazda plant, sources say

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Originally Posted By: javacontour
Actually, which level of government is putting up the funds?

If Alabama is anything like IL, most education is LOCALLY funded. So if the state is funding the tax breaks, it is not taking away from local funds.

Personally, I'm not in favor of such special tax deals. If an enterprise is going to make money, then it doesn't need special help from the government. But, the reality is tax breaks are part of the national business climate.

I'd rather see them simply give EVERYONE a break, and if business can't make it on the lower taxes, then that place isn't for them.

Also, education isn't a panacea. I work in IT. In my previous job, I would travel the nation training people on technologies like Java,
Networking, Solaris, Fault Analysis, and anything else in Sun Microsystems course catalog. Today, we have very little instructor led training. Companies expect people to learn it via Google or on-line training.

I'm a Systems Support Engineer these days. I go on-site. In the past 18 years, my customers have changed. Where I once worked with people in the United States, today I largely work with people in India and Eastern Europe.

Educated Systems Administrators and DBAs in the US are being replaced with off-shore workers.

Education is no guarantee that you will keep your well paying job.

In some ways, there is a bit more security in working in the factory, as you are actually touching something and it's there in AL.
If your job can be done with a keyboard, it can be done anywhere in the world.

So while education is important, never forget that we still need skilled trades and that many well educated people are being replaced with the global labor pool.

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: Thermo1223
Sorry but when someone resorts to the grammar nazi standard any argument you tried to make is lost. I can't add anything meaningfull to the discussion so i'll just be a jerk and attack grammar.

smirk.gif


That being said, I'd rather drive something made here in any fashion than out of country if possible. So sounds like a win for all well except maybe GM & Ford.

Grammar is standard "argument" on forums.
The discussion immediately moves to" me against you. My point was that Alabama has money for tax breaks, but not for public education, and good jobs do not come without education.
But, for some people that is higher math.



I agree with what you said concerning the skilled trades. I know several people from their early/mid 20's and into their early 60's that are working as a skilled tradesman. They make a very good salary and pretty much pick the jobs they want to do. A couple of the guys work for the local electric and water utilities and have excellent benefit packages to boot. Obviously they can't pick their jobs but they are constantly busy and have plenty of overtime and "on the side/after hours" jobs they can choose.
 
Originally Posted By: javacontour
Actually, which level of government is putting up the funds?

If Alabama is anything like IL, most education is LOCALLY funded. So if the state is funding the tax breaks, it is not taking away from local funds.

Personally, I'm not in favor of such special tax deals. If an enterprise is going to make money, then it doesn't need special help from the government. But, the reality is tax breaks are part of the national business climate.

I'd rather see them simply give EVERYONE a break, and if business can't make it on the lower taxes, then that place isn't for them.

Also, education isn't a panacea. I work in IT. In my previous job, I would travel the nation training people on technologies like Java,
Networking, Solaris, Fault Analysis, and anything else in Sun Microsystems course catalog. Today, we have very little instructor led training. Companies expect people to learn it via Google or on-line training.

I'm a Systems Support Engineer these days. I go on-site. In the past 18 years, my customers have changed. Where I once worked with people in the United States, today I largely work with people in India and Eastern Europe.

Educated Systems Administrators and DBAs in the US are being replaced with off-shore workers.

Education is no guarantee that you will keep your well paying job.

In some ways, there is a bit more security in working in the factory, as you are actually touching something and it's there in AL.
If your job can be done with a keyboard, it can be done anywhere in the world.

So while education is important, never forget that we still need skilled trades and that many well educated people are being replaced with the global labor pool.

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: Thermo1223
Sorry but when someone resorts to the grammar nazi standard any argument you tried to make is lost. I can't add anything meaningfull to the discussion so i'll just be a jerk and attack grammar.

smirk.gif


That being said, I'd rather drive something made here in any fashion than out of country if possible. So sounds like a win for all well except maybe GM & Ford.

Grammar is standard "argument" on forums.
The discussion immediately moves to" me against you. My point was that Alabama has money for tax breaks, but not for public education, and good jobs do not come without education.
But, for some people that is higher math.

I completely agree with you on this. Vocational training is in shams here in the US compare to Germany for example. Few weeks ago was very good segment on CNN how much Germany invests in skilled training (I think number was $9 billion) while the US is around $250 million. Germany is still by far largest per capita exporter and they export uber expensive stuff. Unlike in the US in Germany there is much stronger nationalism which is bad (IMO) but sometimes is good when it comes to economic nationalism.
There was also good article last year about roofing company in TX that had to decline $20 million contract because they do not have enough workers nor people want to work that job (this was about immigration, but you get the point).
AL has very regressive tax system where sales tax is ridiculously high, while real estate tax is ridiculously low. It has to do a lot with Alabama's past. But what is states portion of education funding is being constantly cut. For example after recession Governor Bentley ransacked educational fund to give tax cuts. Of course tax cuts did not do any good nor move needle in Alabama's economy due to ridiculous debate about immigration where they tried to outdo in stupidity Arizona (Alabama won). This Toyota-Mazda announcement is first win for Alabama since Airbus committed to the state some decade+ ago.
But AL has a lot of issues that are not strictly economy related, but have a lot of impact on it.
 
Originally Posted By: bbhero
Very true PimTac. The supposed "American" car and truck manufacturers have been sending everything production wise elsewhere. There is a lot more to this conversation shall we say... And it goes into many different aspects of daily life. Many of those aspects are very difficult to talk about and not become heated in nature. One thing that I have noted a long time ago was just how hard it is to "disagree" via typed messages. It is extremely hard not to come across the wrong way.

I mentioned this in another topic.
Last year around this time I bought two car seats, one for Tiguan and one for BMW. For BMW I got Recaro, because it is Recaro. For Tiguan I got Graco, seat made by American company. Recaro (German) was $268 (much, MUCH better quality) and Graco was $248. Guess what? Recaro was made in USA while Graco was made in China! So Recaro managed to make better seat and in the US for only $20 difference?
 
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: bbhero
Very true PimTac. The supposed "American" car and truck manufacturers have been sending everything production wise elsewhere. There is a lot more to this conversation shall we say... And it goes into many different aspects of daily life. Many of those aspects are very difficult to talk about and not become heated in nature. One thing that I have noted a long time ago was just how hard it is to "disagree" via typed messages. It is extremely hard not to come across the wrong way.

I mentioned this in another topic.
Last year around this time I bought two car seats, one for Tiguan and one for BMW. For BMW I got Recaro, because it is Recaro. For Tiguan I got Graco, seat made by American company. Recaro (German) was $268 (much, MUCH better quality) and Graco was $248. Guess what? Recaro was made in USA while Graco was made in China! So Recaro managed to make better seat and in the US for only $20 difference?




That example, while only one, is proof to me that quality products can be made here in the US and sold for a competitive price. Of course quality is a personal judgement.
 
Originally Posted By: PimTac
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: bbhero
Very true PimTac. The supposed "American" car and truck manufacturers have been sending everything production wise elsewhere. There is a lot more to this conversation shall we say... And it goes into many different aspects of daily life. Many of those aspects are very difficult to talk about and not become heated in nature. One thing that I have noted a long time ago was just how hard it is to "disagree" via typed messages. It is extremely hard not to come across the wrong way.

I mentioned this in another topic.
Last year around this time I bought two car seats, one for Tiguan and one for BMW. For BMW I got Recaro, because it is Recaro. For Tiguan I got Graco, seat made by American company. Recaro (German) was $268 (much, MUCH better quality) and Graco was $248. Guess what? Recaro was made in USA while Graco was made in China! So Recaro managed to make better seat and in the US for only $20 difference?




That example, while only one, is proof to me that quality products can be made here in the US and sold for a competitive price. Of course quality is a personal judgement.

Well I do not question Recaro quality as they have exhaustive experience in racing. But, seat is built like a steel reinforced structure while Graco in every aspect feels flimsy. Problem with Recaro is that due to side protection seat is too big to fit into Tiguan and get child out without some gymnastics.
Of course quality products can be made in the USA. As Jeremy Clarkson once said testing first generation Cadillac CTS: I simply do not understand how this can be made in same country where B2 bomber is made.
It is going after every cent and as usual, that race for every cent leads toward bankruptcy. Every new CEO needs to be better then previous one, and first thing they do is cut "cost" which leads to drop in quality. Eventually company will reach a point where it will just make POS products.
That example I gave is not only about quality. It is cost. Recaro is definiately paying for labor more but still seat is only $20 more expensive. Put on a side quality.
 
I still enjoy my Japanese made Montero! Will there be a difference in quality? Just thinkin!

But, I'm elated to see jobs in our Country!






Respectfully,

Pajero!
 
Originally Posted By: Pajero
I still enjoy my Japanese made Montero! Will there be a difference in quality? Just thinkin!

But, I'm elated to see jobs in our Country!






Respectfully,

Pajero!

I think the design means more than the location.
If making cars in Japan assured that they were reliable and long lasting, the Mazda RX7TT wouldn't exist

Anyway, foreign companies can make great cars in the USA. Most Honda Accords are made in the USA and it has been that way since the early 1980s.
 
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