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More Elec. Cap Failures #4668798
02/17/18 02:31 PM
02/17/18 02:31 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,838
Central Texas
sleddriver Offline OP
sleddriver  Offline OP
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,838
Central Texas
A day ago, the Pan. HD recorder failed to light. Opened the hood last night to find another case of cap failure. The first one I saw was on the far left edge of photo 1. Next I pulled the HD & cage and discovered the others below it:





Manuf. date is April 2004. Not all caps are showing signs of failure, however since the PS board feeds the unit + HD, I'll be recapping it to keep from having to do this again. Panasonic did a nice job here in their PS design by including a LC line filter and transient protection.

Time to warm up the iron.........


1998 Volvo V70 T5 228,880 mi. Original Owner.
M1 10W-30 HM
"It's never a mistake to buy tools, defined broadly. They're not a cost, they're an investment." - J.B. Peterson
Re: More Elec. Cap Failures [Re: sleddriver] #4668805
02/17/18 02:36 PM
02/17/18 02:36 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 17,834
Deplorable in apple valley, ca
Chris142 Offline
Chris142  Offline
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 17,834
Deplorable in apple valley, ca
Can you explain to a dummy how to know what to look for?


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Re: More Elec. Cap Failures [Re: Chris142] #4668813
02/17/18 02:42 PM
02/17/18 02:42 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 37,959
Ontario, Canada
OVERKILL Offline
OVERKILL  Offline
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 37,959
Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: Chris142
Can you explain to a dummy how to know what to look for?


The bulged-top capacitors.


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Re: More Elec. Cap Failures [Re: sleddriver] #4668817
02/17/18 02:46 PM
02/17/18 02:46 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,027
TX, USA
JMJNet Online content
JMJNet  Online Content
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,027
TX, USA
When the top part of capacitor is "bulging", that means it is bad, some may rupture also.

To OP, depends on the application, if you can find a higher voltage capacitor with the same capacitance, that may prevent you from re-capping in the future. Replace 10V with 16/20V or whatever is available at higher voltage?

Last edited by JMJNet; 02/17/18 02:47 PM.

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Re: More Elec. Cap Failures [Re: Chris142] #4668820
02/17/18 02:50 PM
02/17/18 02:50 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,838
Central Texas
sleddriver Offline OP
sleddriver  Offline OP
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,838
Central Texas
Originally Posted By: Chris142
Can you explain to a dummy how to know what to look for?
In photo 1, most caps appear to have evenly shiny tops. The bad ones have one quadrant that's dark grey. Reason is their top is no longer flat, thus not evenly reflecting light.

On the side shots you can see the 'bulge' easier, especially the one that's leaked meaning the top expanded enough to rupture the "curve" stamped into it. The manuf. does this to give it a place to expand. Also makes it more noticeable.

However even a smooth top cap can have a high ESR and/or the value can be too far out of spec. I'll cut a few open after getting this repaired.

For an internal view of a failed cap, see my other thread on "Parasound".


1998 Volvo V70 T5 228,880 mi. Original Owner.
M1 10W-30 HM
"It's never a mistake to buy tools, defined broadly. They're not a cost, they're an investment." - J.B. Peterson
Re: More Elec. Cap Failures [Re: JMJNet] #4668834
02/17/18 02:59 PM
02/17/18 02:59 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,838
Central Texas
sleddriver Offline OP
sleddriver  Offline OP
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,838
Central Texas
Originally Posted By: JMJNet
To OP, depends on the application, if you can find a higher voltage capacitor with the same capacitance, that may prevent you from re-capping in the future. Replace 10V with 16/20V or whatever is available at higher voltage?
Yep. I did this on my post regarding the Parasound...replaced 65V caps with 80V.

Also on my fuel pump relay fix. Replaced 16V cap with 25V. (16 is way too low.....)

My line voltage here is about 125VAC. Some older equipment is designed around "110VAC". Higher V means increased thermal dissipation, which can shorten life. This was a HUGE problem in the HK Citation 7 I posted about here years ago. The heat badly damaged the ckt board, cooked several components and caused the thermal fuse in the main PS transformer to melt! It's being fed a lower VAC now and is given a hard off to shut the PS down when not in use. Otherwise the PS is on 24/7, dissipating lots of heat. That's bad design...


1998 Volvo V70 T5 228,880 mi. Original Owner.
M1 10W-30 HM
"It's never a mistake to buy tools, defined broadly. They're not a cost, they're an investment." - J.B. Peterson
Re: More Elec. Cap Failures [Re: sleddriver] #4668851
02/17/18 03:18 PM
02/17/18 03:18 PM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 116
Idaho
CorvairGeek Offline
CorvairGeek  Offline
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 116
Idaho
I've changed so many I have lost count. I think they (the defective ones, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague ) were in the supply chain long after the supply was supposed to have been fixed. I see Wikipedia is now saying through 2007. My favorites have been TEAPO and CAPXON. They seem to always be failed in anything I open up. Never seen any repeat failures with quality replacements (assuming no design issue).


Jerry
Re: More Elec. Cap Failures [Re: sleddriver] #4668863
02/17/18 03:34 PM
02/17/18 03:34 PM
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 17
St.Cloud MN.
AndyB Offline
AndyB  Offline
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 17
St.Cloud MN.
Try to up the temp rating to 105* caps. There are a lot of cheap caps out there.

Re: More Elec. Cap Failures [Re: sleddriver] #4668919
02/17/18 04:49 PM
02/17/18 04:49 PM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 7,215
Leamington, ON, Canada ..... r...
Papa Bear Online content
Papa Bear  Online Content
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 7,215
Leamington, ON, Canada ..... r...
Years ago when I was in electronics I remember the SMPS circuits would get a leaky cap in the voltage regulation feedback circuit (usually a low value cap like a 1u or a .47u) and that allowed the voltage to creep up blowing other filter caps in the power supply.
When you change your caps be sure the output voltages of the power supply are correct.


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Re: More Elec. Cap Failures [Re: sleddriver] #4668972
02/17/18 05:53 PM
02/17/18 05:53 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,231
Where the wind comes sweepin'
Reddy45 Offline
Reddy45  Offline
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,231
Where the wind comes sweepin'
Never knew this was a recognized phenomenon. I was an IT tech back then and diagnosed many Dell Optiplex computers that had this problem.

Re: More Elec. Cap Failures [Re: sleddriver] #4668979
02/17/18 06:05 PM
02/17/18 06:05 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 7,174
Waco, TX
Linctex Offline
Linctex  Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 7,174
Waco, TX
This is a real problem in all electronics across all but the highest-end lines.


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: More Elec. Cap Failures [Re: sleddriver] #4668996
02/17/18 06:20 PM
02/17/18 06:20 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 42,301
New Jersey
JHZR2 Offline
JHZR2  Offline
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 42,301
New Jersey
I was going to say... nature of the beast, no?

Will be looking forward to repair shots. Resoldering parts on boards is a great skill.

Re: More Elec. Cap Failures [Re: sleddriver] #4669022
02/17/18 07:01 PM
02/17/18 07:01 PM
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 718
Canada
i_hate_autofraud Offline
i_hate_autofraud  Offline
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 718
Canada

Manufacturers like Panasonic, Sony, etc, can pick electrolytic filter capacitors that have a specific life, ie, so they pop
in 3-4 yrs etc, thus you buy a new TV etc. Seen that. Cheap computer motherboards go that route a lot.

The PS board (power supply) is typically a high frequency "switch-mode" power supply that no longer uses a
heavy 60Hz line transformer. These caps see high switching frequencies and currents, so if you recap, look for
"Low ESR" caps, meaning "low effective series resistance" plus the voltage rating, capacitance value and temperature rating on them.

High switching currents in the cap generates heat that over time gases the electrolyte bulging the case at the top, you'll note
the cases have grooves on top, so they can 'burst' but not explode old-school. We're not talking a lot of heat here an extra 1/4 watt
will age a cap that should be stone cold. Electrolytic caps also have significant Inductance and Resistance that becomes a big
issue when ripple currents can be several Amps at 30 to 50 KHz!

Low ESR caps take more time to get, but will last way longer. Ebay will show some results if you search "low ESR cap", etc.

Re: More Elec. Cap Failures [Re: sleddriver] #4669024
02/17/18 07:04 PM
02/17/18 07:04 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 17,834
Deplorable in apple valley, ca
Chris142 Offline
Chris142  Offline
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 17,834
Deplorable in apple valley, ca
Thanks I never knew about bulging caps


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Can am maveric edge 5w40
57 case tractor 15w40
Re: More Elec. Cap Failures [Re: i_hate_autofraud] #4669058
02/17/18 07:52 PM
02/17/18 07:52 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,838
Central Texas
sleddriver Offline OP
sleddriver  Offline OP
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,838
Central Texas
The Panasonic PS used in this player isn't a switcher. Good old linear.

I've been buying parts from Mouser for decades now. Also from Digi-key. They only stock NEW parts. EB can be such a [censored] shoot. If I'm going to spend the time, I'll only use top grade, new parts, from a major supplier like Mouser or Digi-key.


1998 Volvo V70 T5 228,880 mi. Original Owner.
M1 10W-30 HM
"It's never a mistake to buy tools, defined broadly. They're not a cost, they're an investment." - J.B. Peterson
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