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#4668481 - 02/17/18 06:43 AM Amsoil European vs Signature Series Advice
budopo Offline


Registered: 02/16/18
Posts: 4
Loc: Maryland
I've been reading a lot more about oil on this site than I ever expected. Tons of info here, but I figured I'd post a question or two.

I have a 2009 Saab 9-5 wagon that I bought a few months ago with about 85,000 miles on it (runs pretty well, no oil consumption, but can be a bit noisy when giving moderate-high power). I've used Mobil 1 in my cars for years, just because it's good and readily accessible. Apparently, the Saab needs GM-LL-A-025 oil, which Mobil 1 does not meet, so I thought I’d look at other brands. Oil grades in the owner's manual are 0w30, 0w40, 5w30, 5w40. I change the oil at about 5,000-6,000 miles. Driving is mostly commuting, occasional stop-and-go, occasional road trips (with medium/somewhat heavy car loads) usually to New York City (thus “aggressive” driving required), I try to keep it under 3,000 rpm.

After much searching, I thought I'd try Amsoil (which I used for a while many years ago). However, not all of their oil meets GM-LL-A-025. I was planning to get 5w40, figuring the thicker oil will give a bit better protection. 0w40 is another option, but winters for me aren't too cold (perhaps 10*F on occasion, 0*F rarely). I figure 5w synthetic should be fine. The other option is 5w30, which seems a bit thin to me.

So, I'm trying to decide between:
5w40 European AFL (meets Dexos 2)
5w30 Signature Series (meets GM-LL-A-025)
0w40 Signature Series (meets API SN SM)

Only the 5w30 Signature meets the GM-LL spec, although the 5w40 meets Dexos 2, which replaced the GM-LL spec (sort of). Here are the numbers from Amsoil’s product data sheets:

Spec 5w40 Euro AFL 5w30 Signature 0w40 Signature
Kinematic Visc. 100C 14.3 10.3 14.8
Kinematic Visc. 40C 88.5 59.7 84.6
Viscosity Index 168 162 184
CCS Viscosity 5855 (-30) 3968 (-30) 6062 (-35)
Pour Point -40C -50C -50C
Flash Point 224C 220C 222C
Fire Point 240C 244C 238C
Four-Ball Wear Test 0.44 N/A N/A
NOACK Volatility 10% 6.7 7.7
HT/HS Viscosity 3.8 3.11 3.76
TBN 8 12.5 12.5

From what I’ve read, it sounds like the Signature series is the better line of oils. From these numbers, the 5w40 European looks pretty good, except for the high NOACK and low TBN (relatively). The 5w30 Signature has better CCS, NOACK, and TBN, but lower HT/HS.

So, I’ve got a few questions:
1. How much more protection would 5w40 (or 0w40) provide over 5w30? Does the thinner 5w30 help with engine cooling (especially in summer traffic)?
2. How much difference is there in protection between HT/HS 3.1 and 3.8?
3. Is the GM-LL-A-025 spec is just for extended oil change intervals (and thus the 0w40 Signature is an option, although its CCS is high)? Or does it indicate things like SAPS level, etc?
4. Is the Signature Series better than the European line? If so, what’s the difference? (better heat tolerance? better film layer for startup? etc)
5. Does anyone know if my car needs low, mid, or high SAPS? Amsoil's website says mid-SAPS, based on the GM-LL-A-025 spec called for in the owner's manual.

Thanks in advance. (sorry for the long post)

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#4668489 - 02/17/18 07:10 AM Re: Amsoil European vs Signature Series Advice [Re: budopo]
4WD Offline


Registered: 09/21/10
Posts: 6351
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: budopo
I've been reading a lot more about oil on this site than I ever expected. Tons of info here, but I figured I'd post a question or two.

I have a 2009 Saab 9-5 wagon that I bought a few months ago with about 85,000 miles on it (runs pretty well, no oil consumption, but can be a bit noisy when giving moderate-high power). I've used Mobil 1 in my cars for years, just because it's good and readily accessible. Apparently, the Saab needs GM-LL-A-025 oil, which Mobil 1 does not meet, so I thought I’d look at other brands. Oil grades in the owner's manual are 0w30, 0w40, 5w30, 5w40. I change the oil at about 5,000-6,000 miles. Driving is mostly commuting, occasional stop-and-go, occasional road trips (with medium/somewhat heavy car loads) usually to New York City (thus “aggressive” driving required), I try to keep it under 3,000 rpm.

After much searching, I thought I'd try Amsoil (which I used for a while many years ago). However, not all of their oil meets GM-LL-A-025. I was planning to get 5w40, figuring the thicker oil will give a bit better protection. 0w40 is another option, but winters for me aren't too cold (perhaps 10*F on occasion, 0*F rarely). I figure 5w synthetic should be fine. The other option is 5w30, which seems a bit thin to me.

So, I'm trying to decide between:
5w40 European AFL (meets Dexos 2)
5w30 Signature Series (meets GM-LL-A-025)
0w40 Signature Series (meets API SN SM)

Only the 5w30 Signature meets the GM-LL spec, although the 5w40 meets Dexos 2, which replaced the GM-LL spec (sort of). Here are the numbers from Amsoil’s product data sheets:

Spec 5w40 Euro AFL 5w30 Signature 0w40 Signature
Kinematic Visc. 100C 14.3 10.3 14.8
Kinematic Visc. 40C 88.5 59.7 84.6
Viscosity Index 168 162 184
CCS Viscosity 5855 (-30) 3968 (-30) 6062 (-35)
Pour Point -40C -50C -50C
Flash Point 224C 220C 222C
Fire Point 240C 244C 238C
Four-Ball Wear Test 0.44 N/A N/A
NOACK Volatility 10% 6.7 7.7
HT/HS Viscosity 3.8 3.11 3.76
TBN 8 12.5 12.5

From what I’ve read, it sounds like the Signature series is the better line of oils. From these numbers, the 5w40 European looks pretty good, except for the high NOACK and low TBN (relatively). The 5w30 Signature has better CCS, NOACK, and TBN, but lower HT/HS.

So, I’ve got a few questions:
1. How much more protection would 5w40 (or 0w40) provide over 5w30? Does the thinner 5w30 help with engine cooling (especially in summer traffic)?
2. How much difference is there in protection between HT/HS 3.1 and 3.8?
3. Is the GM-LL-A-025 spec is just for extended oil change intervals (and thus the 0w40 Signature is an option, although its CCS is high)? Or does it indicate things like SAPS level, etc?
4. Is the Signature Series better than the European line? If so, what’s the difference? (better heat tolerance? better film layer for startup? etc)
5. Does anyone know if my car needs low, mid, or high SAPS? Amsoil's website says mid-SAPS, based on the GM-LL-A-025 spec called for in the owner's manual.

Thanks in advance. (sorry for the long post)


You sure did lots of work = but 0w40 is not where I’d spend Amsoil type money … there are several outstanding and affordable 0W40’s that already meet tough German car specs …

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#4668517 - 02/17/18 08:14 AM Re: Amsoil European vs Signature Series Advice [Re: 4WD]
budopo Offline


Registered: 02/16/18
Posts: 4
Loc: Maryland
I was leaning towards the 5w40 anyway. I'm trying to find out if the 40 weight would give better protection (wear and heat) than 30, and the differences between the Euro and Signature lines.

And it's bugging me that the list of specs didn't show up as a nice, neat table, but I can't figure out how to post it as a table.

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#4668540 - 02/17/18 08:55 AM Re: Amsoil European vs Signature Series Advice [Re: budopo]
slacktide_bitog Offline


Registered: 03/20/08
Posts: 6135
Loc: USA
welcome

There is an Amsoil dealer on this site. His name is Pablo.

GM does call for dexos2 in all their European cars (gas and diesel), and they have both 30 and 40-wt oils that meet dexos2.

If Amsoil recommends mid-SAPS, then buy their mid-SAPS product

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#4668564 - 02/17/18 09:27 AM Re: Amsoil European vs Signature Series Advice [Re: budopo]
cronk Offline


Registered: 01/06/09
Posts: 1287
Loc: Watertown, New York
I just checked the Amsoil site for recommend oil for your car, and they list Amsoil Signature series 0w30.
They also list 0w40 5w30 and 5w40 as recommended grades.

My personal preference would be Signature Series 0w40 as a good year round oil.
_________________________
1998 GMC C1500
2003 Chevy Cavalier
2011 Nissan Quest
1986 Pontiac Trans Am
1940 Ford 9N Tractor
Amsoil lubes and filters!

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#4668585 - 02/17/18 09:56 AM Re: Amsoil European vs Signature Series Advice [Re: cronk]
budopo Offline


Registered: 02/16/18
Posts: 4
Loc: Maryland
The 0W40 Signature does look like the best overall oil, but it's not listed as meeting GM-LL-A-025 or Dexos 1/Dexos2. Amsoil's site says if your car calls for GM-LL-A-025 (like mine), then it needs mid-SAPS. So if 0w40 doesn't meet it, I wonder if it's high-SAPS, which is why I was leaning towards the 5w40 European. If I can find out if 0w40 Signature is mid-SAPS, I'd probably go with that.

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#4668666 - 02/17/18 11:42 AM Re: Amsoil European vs Signature Series Advice [Re: budopo]
Bailes1992 Offline


Registered: 03/10/17
Posts: 119
Loc: South Wales, UK
GM-LL-A-025 was superceded by Dexos2. Fill your boots!

I personally would run any branded *w40 meeting ACEA A3/B4. Mobil1 FS 0w40 or Castrol Edge 0w40 A3/B4 would be my choice.
_________________________
'13 Suzuki Jimmny - '16 Dacia Duster 1.5DCi 4WD
'96 LR Defender 300TDi - '12 BMW 320d

Engine Oil - Fuchs Titan XTL GT1 5w40
Gearbox Oil - Fuchs Sintofluid 75w80
Diff Oil - Fuchs Sintopoid 75w90

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#4668746 - 02/17/18 01:21 PM Re: Amsoil European vs Signature Series Advice [Re: 4WD]
Speak2Mountain Offline


Registered: 04/07/17
Posts: 346
Loc: Mississippi
This

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#4668776 - 02/17/18 02:01 PM Re: Amsoil European vs Signature Series Advice [Re: budopo]
4ever4d Offline


Registered: 01/02/10
Posts: 953
Loc: North Carolina
I would use the SSO 0w-30 or AZO. Although it doesn't get very cold in your area the 0w will be fine and is acceptable in any 5w application. This oil is stout enough to cover the turbo and the city driving you may encounter. The AZO is a long drain oil if you choose to extend your oci, as you probably already know.
_________________________
04 Chevy Colorado 3.5 I5 5w-30 OEF
07 Honda Element 2.4 I4 5w-20 OEM
10 Nissan Rogue AWD 2.5 I4 5w-30 OEF
Amsoil Products & Fram or Wix Filters





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#4668856 - 02/17/18 03:26 PM Re: Amsoil European vs Signature Series Advice [Re: budopo]
budopo Offline


Registered: 02/16/18
Posts: 4
Loc: Maryland
First, thanks everyone for all of the info (not to mention the responses came pretty quickly). I've certainly gained some more knowledge about oils (for decades, I just would get a brand name synthetic 10w40).

Ok, so a couple of questions:
Generally speaking, does a 40 weight oil provide a bit more protection than 30 weight? Also, how do they compare for heat transfer (ie, helping keep the engine cool, let's say for stop-and-go traffic in the summer)?
Again, generally speaking, is there any benefit to, say, 5w40 instead of 0w40 (assuming same brand)? I'd think the lower temp of the 0w would be something to consider, even if it's overkill for where you live.
Lastly, Is there any significant difference between Amsoil's Signature series and Euro line, or are they comparable?



Edited by budopo (02/17/18 03:49 PM)

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