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#4667246  02/15/18 08:16 PM
Question for the math geniuses. Moly concentration

Registered: 03/04/17
Posts: 3463
Loc: Soviet State of Washington

Normally a oil will have Moly at around 5080 parts per million. Some oils like the Idemitsu Mazda Moly oil have 800 + ppm. Different moly of course. LiquiMoly’s MOS2 additive recommends a 25% concentration.
So by searching I came up with the answer that 800 ppm = 0.08% which sounds off to me. I am not good at math so can anyone confirm or refute this equation?
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#4667247  02/15/18 08:20 PM
Re: Question for the math geniuses. Moly concentration
[Re: PimTac]

Registered: 03/20/08
Posts: 5832
Loc: USA

100% is 1 000 000 ppm (1 million ppm) 10% is 100 000 ppm 1% is 10 000 ppm 0.1% is 1000 ppm 0.01% is 100 ppm so yes, 800 ppm is indeed 0.08%

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#4667249  02/15/18 08:21 PM
Re: Question for the math geniuses. Moly concentration
[Re: PimTac]

Registered: 07/22/10
Posts: 17188
Loc: PNW

800/1,000,000 = 0.0008 = 0.08%
Bonus calculation  so a 5% concentration would be 50,000 ppm.
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#4667250  02/15/18 08:21 PM
Re: Question for the math geniuses. Moly concentration
[Re: PimTac]

Registered: 04/24/15
Posts: 215
Loc: Georgia

800 parts divided by 1 million which equals 0.0008. Convert this to percentage (per 100) is 0.08%
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#4667253  02/15/18 08:29 PM
Re: Question for the math geniuses. Moly concentration
[Re: PimTac]

Registered: 03/04/17
Posts: 3463
Loc: Soviet State of Washington

So if LiquiMoly suggests a 25% dilution of their product into the sump then to get ppm we would have to know the concentration of their product? MSDS didn’t help much
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#4667266  02/15/18 09:01 PM
Re: Question for the math geniuses. Moly concentration
[Re: PimTac]

Registered: 05/30/10
Posts: 8428
Loc: North Carolina

So if LiquiMoly suggests a 25% dilution of their product into the sump then to get ppm we would have to know the concentration of their product? MSDS didn’t help much Part of that problem, is that we don't know the concentration of moly in the liquimoly product.
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#4667272  02/15/18 09:09 PM
Re: Question for the math geniuses. Moly concentration
[Re: PimTac]

Registered: 03/10/15
Posts: 190
Loc: MO

You would need to know the ppm of Mo in the additive. Maybe you could find a VOA on it. Once the initial Mo conc is known it is: C1 X V1 = C2 X V2
C1 is the moly conc of the additive V1 is the volume of additive C2 is the desired 800 ppm final conc V2 is the volume of the sump
Solving for V1 we have: V1 =(C2 X V2)/C1 Or V1 = (800 X ounces in sump)/Additive PPM

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#4667281  02/15/18 09:24 PM
Re: Question for the math geniuses. Moly concentration
[Re: Carbon12]

Registered: 03/04/17
Posts: 3463
Loc: Soviet State of Washington

Thanks for the formula. I’m horrible in algebra. I’m one of the small subset of boomers that was taught old math then switched to new math and then back to old. Thank goodness for calculators.
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#4667295  02/15/18 10:04 PM
Re: Question for the math geniuses. Moly concentration
[Re: PimTac]

Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 41412
Loc: New Jersey

Try to look at it another way... which is also why people find metric logical...
1 mg is 1/1000 g. 1 kg is 1000g. 1000 x 1000 is 1000000.
1ppm is 1mg of something per 1kg of stuff.
So 1ppm is 1 mg of Mo per kg of oil.
1% therefore is 10000mg of Mo per kg of oil, because there are 100 10000s in 1000000.
Depending upon detector type, it may not care what chemical variant of moly it is.

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#4667300  02/15/18 10:16 PM
Re: Question for the math geniuses. Moly concentration
[Re: PimTac]

Registered: 03/04/17
Posts: 3463
Loc: Soviet State of Washington

“Depending upon detector type, it may not care what chemical variant of moly it is.”
So what we see in the oil analysis is the measurement of moly as it’s base form, regardless of which type it is ? (Moly Disulfide versus Moly DTC)
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#4667378  02/16/18 01:16 AM
Re: Question for the math geniuses. Moly concentration
[Re: PimTac]

Registered: 07/23/16
Posts: 998
Loc: Europe

“Depending upon detector type, it may not care what chemical variant of moly it is.”
So what we see in the oil analysis is the measurement of moly as it’s base form, regardless of which type it is ? (Moly Disulfide versus Moly DTC) Yes. Most of these 'metals' numbers are measured by Inductive Coupled Plasma (ICP) so relate purely to the specific (or base) 'stuff' . So for example, ICP might measure 1000 ppm (0.1%) of Zinc in an oil but this Zinc will actually exist in the oil as part of 10000 ppm (1.0%) of Zinc Dialkyl DithioPhosphate. Regarding Moly, most of the Moly you see in oils will exist as a fully oil soluble form (Moly DTP, Moly DTC, Moly ester, trinuclear Moly, etc) and NOT as Molybdenum Disulphide (which exists in oil as a dispersed but insoluble solid). It bounces about but if you assume 8% Moly metal in an oil soluble Moly, you won't go far wrong.
Edited by SonofJoe (02/16/18 01:17 AM)

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#4667380  02/16/18 01:25 AM
Re: Question for the math geniuses. Moly concentration
[Re: SonofJoe]

Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 38972
Loc: 'Stralia


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#4667569  02/16/18 08:42 AM
Re: Question for the math geniuses. Moly concentration
[Re: PimTac]

Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 11840
Loc: N.H, U.S.A.

LM ?
Don't do it. That was the end of my Honda 1.5L in the Fit. 1/3 of a can.
I was duped, you don't have to be.
New car newish engine ... toast.
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#4667718  02/16/18 10:42 AM
Re: Question for the math geniuses. Moly concentration
[Re: PimTac]

Registered: 03/04/17
Posts: 3463
Loc: Soviet State of Washington

Thanks for the info everyone.
I wasn’t planning to use the stuff Arco, just curious why LM used % instead of ppm . Anyhoo, you seem to have bad luck with with most every brand?
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#4668042  02/16/18 04:51 PM
Re: Question for the math geniuses. Moly concentration
[Re: PimTac]

Registered: 07/22/10
Posts: 17188
Loc: PNW

Thanks for the info everyone.
I wasn’t planning to use the stuff Arco, just curious why LM used % instead of ppm . They say % so you know how much to add to your sump. If you wanted to use a 5% concentration and had a 5 qt sump, then you'd add 5% of 5 qts which is 8 ounces.
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