Forums67
Topics292,166
Posts4,875,206
Members66,244

Most Online2,494 Oct 17th, 2018



Question for the math geniuses. Moly concentration
#4667246
02/15/18 09:16 PM
02/15/18 09:16 PM

Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,745 ...
PimTac
OP

OP
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,745
...

Normally a oil will have Moly at around 5080 parts per million. Some oils like the Idemitsu Mazda Moly oil have 800 + ppm. Different moly of course. LiquiMoly’s MOS2 additive recommends a 25% concentration.
So by searching I came up with the answer that 800 ppm = 0.08% which sounds off to me. I am not good at math so can anyone confirm or refute this equation?
2017 Mazda CX5 GT.
Valvoline Modern Engine 0w20 Mobil 1 EP 108A



Re: Question for the math geniuses. Moly concentration
[Re: PimTac]
#4667247
02/15/18 09:20 PM
02/15/18 09:20 PM

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,006 USA
slacktide_bitog

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,006
USA

100% is 1 000 000 ppm (1 million ppm) 10% is 100 000 ppm 1% is 10 000 ppm 0.1% is 1000 ppm 0.01% is 100 ppm so yes, 800 ppm is indeed 0.08%



Re: Question for the math geniuses. Moly concentration
[Re: PimTac]
#4667249
02/15/18 09:21 PM
02/15/18 09:21 PM

Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 18,941 PNW
ZeeOSix

Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 18,941
PNW

800/1,000,000 = 0.0008 = 0.08%
Bonus calculation  so a 5% concentration would be 50,000 ppm.



Re: Question for the math geniuses. Moly concentration
[Re: PimTac]
#4667250
02/15/18 09:21 PM
02/15/18 09:21 PM

Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 280 Georgia
Charlie2015

Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 280
Georgia

800 parts divided by 1 million which equals 0.0008. Convert this to percentage (per 100) is 0.08%
1998 Honda Accord EX 2.3L Auto 2009 Scion TC Manual



Re: Question for the math geniuses. Moly concentration
[Re: PimTac]
#4667253
02/15/18 09:29 PM
02/15/18 09:29 PM

Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,745 ...
PimTac
OP

OP
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,745
...

So if LiquiMoly suggests a 25% dilution of their product into the sump then to get ppm we would have to know the concentration of their product? MSDS didn’t help much
2017 Mazda CX5 GT.
Valvoline Modern Engine 0w20 Mobil 1 EP 108A



Re: Question for the math geniuses. Moly concentration
[Re: PimTac]
#4667266
02/15/18 10:01 PM
02/15/18 10:01 PM

Joined: May 2010
Posts: 9,178 North Carolina
spasm3

Joined: May 2010
Posts: 9,178
North Carolina

So if LiquiMoly suggests a 25% dilution of their product into the sump then to get ppm we would have to know the concentration of their product? MSDS didn’t help much Part of that problem, is that we don't know the concentration of moly in the liquimoly product.
13 elantra 70k 5w30 QSUD 03 chevy avalanche79k synpwr 10w30 01 saturnsc1 185k synpwr rebuilt 17 mazda cx5 5600 miles m1 0w30



Re: Question for the math geniuses. Moly concentration
[Re: PimTac]
#4667272
02/15/18 10:09 PM
02/15/18 10:09 PM

Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 208 MO
Carbon12

Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 208
MO

You would need to know the ppm of Mo in the additive. Maybe you could find a VOA on it. Once the initial Mo conc is known it is: C1 X V1 = C2 X V2
C1 is the moly conc of the additive V1 is the volume of additive C2 is the desired 800 ppm final conc V2 is the volume of the sump
Solving for V1 we have: V1 =(C2 X V2)/C1 Or V1 = (800 X ounces in sump)/Additive PPM



Re: Question for the math geniuses. Moly concentration
[Re: Carbon12]
#4667281
02/15/18 10:24 PM
02/15/18 10:24 PM

Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,745 ...
PimTac
OP

OP
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,745
...

Thanks for the formula. I’m horrible in algebra. I’m one of the small subset of boomers that was taught old math then switched to new math and then back to old. Thank goodness for calculators.
2017 Mazda CX5 GT.
Valvoline Modern Engine 0w20 Mobil 1 EP 108A



Re: Question for the math geniuses. Moly concentration
[Re: PimTac]
#4667295
02/15/18 11:04 PM
02/15/18 11:04 PM

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 42,136 New Jersey
JHZR2

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 42,136
New Jersey

Try to look at it another way... which is also why people find metric logical...
1 mg is 1/1000 g. 1 kg is 1000g. 1000 x 1000 is 1000000.
1ppm is 1mg of something per 1kg of stuff.
So 1ppm is 1 mg of Mo per kg of oil.
1% therefore is 10000mg of Mo per kg of oil, because there are 100 10000s in 1000000.
Depending upon detector type, it may not care what chemical variant of moly it is.



Re: Question for the math geniuses. Moly concentration
[Re: PimTac]
#4667300
02/15/18 11:16 PM
02/15/18 11:16 PM

Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,745 ...
PimTac
OP

OP
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,745
...

“Depending upon detector type, it may not care what chemical variant of moly it is.”
So what we see in the oil analysis is the measurement of moly as it’s base form, regardless of which type it is ? (Moly Disulfide versus Moly DTC)
2017 Mazda CX5 GT.
Valvoline Modern Engine 0w20 Mobil 1 EP 108A



Re: Question for the math geniuses. Moly concentration
[Re: PimTac]
#4667378
02/16/18 02:16 AM
02/16/18 02:16 AM

Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,160 Europe
SonofJoe

Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,160
Europe

“Depending upon detector type, it may not care what chemical variant of moly it is.”
So what we see in the oil analysis is the measurement of moly as it’s base form, regardless of which type it is ? (Moly Disulfide versus Moly DTC) Yes. Most of these 'metals' numbers are measured by Inductive Coupled Plasma (ICP) so relate purely to the specific (or base) 'stuff' . So for example, ICP might measure 1000 ppm (0.1%) of Zinc in an oil but this Zinc will actually exist in the oil as part of 10000 ppm (1.0%) of Zinc Dialkyl DithioPhosphate. Regarding Moly, most of the Moly you see in oils will exist as a fully oil soluble form (Moly DTP, Moly DTC, Moly ester, trinuclear Moly, etc) and NOT as Molybdenum Disulphide (which exists in oil as a dispersed but insoluble solid). It bounces about but if you assume 8% Moly metal in an oil soluble Moly, you won't go far wrong.
Last edited by SonofJoe; 02/16/18 02:17 AM.



Re: Question for the math geniuses. Moly concentration
[Re: PimTac]
#4667569
02/16/18 09:42 AM
02/16/18 09:42 AM

Joined: May 2009
Posts: 12,248 N.H, U.S.A.
ARCOgraphite

Joined: May 2009
Posts: 12,248
N.H, U.S.A.

LM ?
Don't do it. That was the end of my Honda 1.5L in the Fit. 1/3 of a can.
I was duped, you don't have to be.
New car newish engine ... toast.
2014 Nissan Rogue S CVT, OC#9 41392miQSUD10W30 + M110A CHAMP Filter; 2017 Subaru Crosstrek CVT OC#2 ?? miSOA/Idemitsu 0w20 + SOA Filter



Re: Question for the math geniuses. Moly concentration
[Re: PimTac]
#4667718
02/16/18 11:42 AM
02/16/18 11:42 AM

Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,745 ...
PimTac
OP

OP
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,745
...

Thanks for the info everyone.
I wasn’t planning to use the stuff Arco, just curious why LM used % instead of ppm . Anyhoo, you seem to have bad luck with with most every brand?
2017 Mazda CX5 GT.
Valvoline Modern Engine 0w20 Mobil 1 EP 108A



Re: Question for the math geniuses. Moly concentration
[Re: PimTac]
#4668042
02/16/18 05:51 PM
02/16/18 05:51 PM

Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 18,941 PNW
ZeeOSix

Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 18,941
PNW

Thanks for the info everyone.
I wasn’t planning to use the stuff Arco, just curious why LM used % instead of ppm . They say % so you know how much to add to your sump. If you wanted to use a 5% concentration and had a 5 qt sump, then you'd add 5% of 5 qts which is 8 ounces.



