0W20 Conventional....Does Anybody Make it?

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I'm wondering if any company makes a 0w20 that is a conventional formula. I've seen synthetic blends, such as Pennzoil Gold, but can't seem to find a conventional. I'm just curious, not necessarily wanting to run it.
 
Nope, not to my knowledge.

edit:

Originally Posted By: IndyFan's signature

18 Jeep JLUR Wrangler 3.6 div>


How's the new Wrangler JL?
 
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Originally Posted By: JLTD
Nope, not to my knowledge.

edit:

Originally Posted By: IndyFan's signature

18 Jeep JLUR Wrangler 3.6 div>


How's the new Wrangler JL?


It's refinement has exceeded my expectations, by a wide margin. It is REALLY nice, especially the Gen 2 Pentastar and Aisin manual transmission. They are a perfect match and are super smooth and quiet. I've already put a 2" Mopar lift and 315/70/17 tires on it. The Mopar lift came with Fox shocks, and I'm actually stunned at how smooth and nice it rides. I expected it to be stiffer. I couldn't be happier. I've put 1,1oo miles on it, so far. I'm planning the first oil change at 2500. I'm going with Mobil 1 EP and a Fram Ultra Guard for the first oil change. I'll run that for 5k miles and then will go to Mobil 1 AP. I'll do UOA's on the first few changes, too, and will post them up. I've got the Blackstone bottles waiting.
 
I've never attempted it but logically you could make a 0W20 from 'conventional' Group II base oils. The only problem would be that it would likely have a horribly high (and off-grade) Noack volatility. You could mitigate this somewhat by severely throttling back on the DI content and switching from OCP to HSD VII (like the long dead Shellvis 600). However some things are just not meant to be and conventional 0W20 is probably one of them...
 
Originally Posted By: SonofJoe
I've never attempted it but logically you could make a 0W20 from 'conventional' Group II base oils. The only problem would be that it would likely have a horribly high (and off-grade) Noack volatility. You could mitigate this somewhat by severely throttling back on the DI content and switching from OCP to HSD VII (like the long dead Shellvis 600). However some things are just not meant to be and conventional 0W20 is probably one of them...


Seems the oil companies might have their own CAFE ~ corporate average final expenses...if it costs a bit more to make 0w20…but they can economically make the specs on 30’s with mainly GII/GIII … it all averages out …
 
I believe the only purpose to a 0/20 oil is for an engine company to make higher gas mileage for EPA bullcrap. Will each individual actually see w difference in fuel mileage between a 0/20 and a 5-30? Maybe 1mpg, to an individual that's nothing but mutiply that times all the vehicles.

Next question will an engine last longer on a 5-30 or a 0-20?
 
Originally Posted By: Bullwinkle007
I believe the only purpose to a 0/20 oil is for an engine company to make higher gas mileage for EPA bullcrap. Will each individual actually see w difference in fuel mileage between a 0/20 and a 5-30? Maybe 1mpg, to an individual that's nothing but mutiply that times all the vehicles.

Next question will an engine last longer on a 5-30 or a 0-20?

It is one of life's great mysteries
 
Originally Posted By: Bullwinkle007
I believe the only purpose to a 0/20 oil is for an engine company to make higher gas mileage for EPA bullcrap. Will each individual actually see w difference in fuel mileage between a 0/20 and a 5-30? Maybe 1mpg, to an individual that's nothing but mutiply that times all the vehicles.

Next question will an engine last longer on a 5-30 or a 0-20?


If you had to ask the question then apparently there is no evidence that 20wt oils cause shorter engine life, since engine builders have been calling for 20wt oils now for 12-15 years. I even used M1 5-20 in my Dodge engine in 1978 with no problem except a little more oil use than the 10-40 Valvoline I started with.


Since you have problems with 20wt oils then use somin else. For me, I chose 0-20 for clean engines, smooth engines, nice cold temp starts, smooth acceleration, moderate 10K OCIs, quite and long lasting timing chains, very long engine life, great protection in high temps, very low oil consumption, and if there are other reasons I think of you all will be the first to know.
 
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Originally Posted By: FordCapriDriver
I sometimes think tig1 is actually just a bot that has been programmed to repeat the same thing over and over ( no offence intended )

Perhaps but it is a reasonable response to the myriad of new users (real or imagined) that post the same question over and over with the same predispositions.
 
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: FordCapriDriver
I sometimes think tig1 is actually just a bot that has been programmed to repeat the same thing over and over ( no offence intended )

Perhaps but it is a reasonable response to the myriad of new users (real or imagined) that post the same question over and over with the same predispositions.


I would add he started using a controversial product decades ago - that has undergone many formula changes and proof of performance tests etc ... he still uses it with confidence and uses his good success in many viscosity debates when he just added the brand needed or not. But’s let’s not pretend there were shelves full of 20’s back when he started
 
Originally Posted By: IndyFan
Originally Posted By: JLTD
Nope, not to my knowledge.

edit:

Originally Posted By: IndyFan's signature

18 Jeep JLUR Wrangler 3.6 div>


How's the new Wrangler JL?


It's refinement has exceeded my expectations, by a wide margin. It is REALLY nice, especially the Gen 2 Pentastar and Aisin manual transmission. They are a perfect match and are super smooth and quiet. I've already put a 2" Mopar lift and 315/70/17 tires on it. The Mopar lift came with Fox shocks, and I'm actually stunned at how smooth and nice it rides. I expected it to be stiffer. I couldn't be happier. I've put 1,1oo miles on it, so far. I'm planning the first oil change at 2500. I'm going with Mobil 1 EP and a Fram Ultra Guard for the first oil change. I'll run that for 5k miles and then will go to Mobil 1 AP. I'll do UOA's on the first few changes, too, and will post them up. I've got the Blackstone bottles waiting.


Good to hear, the JK was already quite impressive. I did see "Dirt Every Day" do a series of videos introducing the JL and was very impressed by all the incremental changes Jeep made to it so that its even easier for owners to modify than the JK was. And really impressed by the fact that they still offer a manual trans (though not with the forthcoming diesel option, unfortunately, since the current trans doesn't have a high enough torque rating and the volume is too small to justify another manual transmission). A manual combined with a Pentastar must be very nice, combined with the diesel would be just outstanding.
 
Originally Posted By: TTK
Originally Posted By: Bullwinkle007

Next question will an engine last longer on a 5-30 or a 0-20?

It is one of life's great mysteries


Not really a mystery. Plenty of Ford 4.6 2-valve engines in Crown Vic taxis have exceeded 300k on 5w20 and 0w20.

People often mistake film strength for viscosity. High viscosity can "prop up" the film strength of a mediocre lubricant, sure, but a well designed lubricant can have low viscosity with high film strength. And engines designed to uniformly deliver thin oil to everywhere it needs to go can take full advantage. I'm not going to be putting 5w20 or 0w20 in one of my 1960's big blocks, but neither am I going to expect one more mile of engine life from putting an Xw30 into my wifes 2014 v6 spec'd for 5w20/0w20. And I might even encounter a slow cam phaser response error code with a heavier oil.
 
Originally Posted By: 4WD
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: FordCapriDriver
I sometimes think tig1 is actually just a bot that has been programmed to repeat the same thing over and over ( no offence intended )

Perhaps but it is a reasonable response to the myriad of new users (real or imagined) that post the same question over and over with the same predispositions.


I would add he started using a controversial product decades ago - that has undergone many formula changes and proof of performance tests etc ... he still uses it with confidence and uses his good success in many viscosity debates when he just added the brand needed or not. But’s let’s not pretend there were shelves full of 20’s back when he started
Sure they were full of 20s-STRAIGHT 20s!
s-l300.jpg
 
Originally Posted By: Bullwinkle007
I believe the only purpose to a 0/20 oil is for an engine company to make higher gas mileage for EPA bullcrap.


It would be interesting to see how many hundreds,maybe thousands,of times this has been said on here over the years.
 
What do the guys across the pond use? The only reason I'm using it in the Camrys is that Toyota specs it. Granted it was warm, but the stuff drains like water. Scary for a 20w50 guy. 0w20 is Fine for light use maybe. But in a stuff happens universe, there is no margin for engine troubles. A good thread. I learned stuff Thank you
 
Originally Posted By: Bullwinkle007
I believe the only purpose to a 0/20 oil is for an engine company to make higher gas mileage for EPA bullcrap. Will each individual actually see w difference in fuel mileage between a 0/20 and a 5-30? Maybe 1mpg, to an individual that's nothing but mutiply that times all the vehicles.

Next question will an engine last longer on a 5-30 or a 0-20?


AMEN. But it gets worse. The 2018 Camry I-4 calls for 0W16. How absurd. That must translate to .01 mpg at the potential cost of a worn out engine down the road.

I use M1 5W30 in my 09V6 Camry 3.5L V6 with 105,000 miles on it and it never goes off the full mark with a 7,500 OCI. Gas mileage is excellent.
People in the toyotanation.com forums are approaching 300,000 on their Avalons with the same 2GR-FE engines. Between turbos and lightweight oils, you're not going to see as many Hondas and Toyotas that last 25+ years on the road in the future as you do today.
 
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Originally Posted By: farrarfan1
Originally Posted By: Bullwinkle007
I believe the only purpose to a 0/20 oil is for an engine company to make higher gas mileage for EPA bullcrap.


It would be interesting to see how many hundreds,maybe thousands,of times this has been said on here over the years.

CAFE regulations pushed auto manufacturers into looking everywhere to increase MPG. One area they found that is cheap and quick was thinner oils. That’s not open to debate. That is fact. It also brought us downsized turbocharged engines and GDI and auto start/stop and hybrids.

It doesn’t necessarily mean that thin oils are inferior... a dexos certified 0w-20 can outperform the 5w-30s of yesteryear in some applications, the daily driver being an example.

I know this debate will never be settled but hopefully this post might convince one person to stop and use some critical thinking skills.
 
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