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0W20 Conventional....Does Anybody Make it? #4666158
02/14/18 08:30 PM
02/14/18 08:30 PM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 627
Danville, Indiana
IndyFan Offline OP
IndyFan  Offline OP
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 627
Danville, Indiana
I'm wondering if any company makes a 0w20 that is a conventional formula. I've seen synthetic blends, such as Pennzoil Gold, but can't seem to find a conventional. I'm just curious, not necessarily wanting to run it.


18 Jeep JLUR Wrangler 3.6 5k
15 Ford Transit 93k, Reman 3.5 @85k
08 Jeep Wrangler 3.8 123k
01 Ford F150 Crew 5.4 79k
99 Mercedes E430 Sport 89k
Re: 0W20 Conventional....Does Anybody Make it? [Re: IndyFan] #4666175
02/14/18 08:47 PM
02/14/18 08:47 PM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 1,040
US
JLTD Offline
JLTD  Offline
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 1,040
US
Nope, not to my knowledge.

edit:

Originally Posted By: IndyFan's signature

18 Jeep JLUR Wrangler 3.6 <1k


How's the new Wrangler JL?

Last edited by JLTD; 02/14/18 08:48 PM.

I'm a thickie; but a 20 has its place.

I use AMSOIL

Hers: 2008 Jeep Liberty 138k, SS 5w30/Amsoil

His: 2015 4Runner 41k, OE 5w20/Wix

Re: 0W20 Conventional....Does Anybody Make it? [Re: IndyFan] #4666176
02/14/18 08:47 PM
02/14/18 08:47 PM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,531
Central Maryland
HangFire Offline
HangFire  Offline
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,531
Central Maryland
Nope. Pretty much impossible to make anything starting with 0w via conventional petroleum distillation and blending.


Various musings: http://hangfire.net
Re: 0W20 Conventional....Does Anybody Make it? [Re: JLTD] #4666181
02/14/18 08:53 PM
02/14/18 08:53 PM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 627
Danville, Indiana
IndyFan Offline OP
IndyFan  Offline OP
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 627
Danville, Indiana
Originally Posted By: JLTD
Nope, not to my knowledge.

edit:

Originally Posted By: IndyFan's signature

18 Jeep JLUR Wrangler 3.6 <1k


How's the new Wrangler JL?


It's refinement has exceeded my expectations, by a wide margin. It is REALLY nice, especially the Gen 2 Pentastar and Aisin manual transmission. They are a perfect match and are super smooth and quiet. I've already put a 2" Mopar lift and 315/70/17 tires on it. The Mopar lift came with Fox shocks, and I'm actually stunned at how smooth and nice it rides. I expected it to be stiffer. I couldn't be happier. I've put 1,1oo miles on it, so far. I'm planning the first oil change at 2500. I'm going with Mobil 1 EP and a Fram Ultra Guard for the first oil change. I'll run that for 5k miles and then will go to Mobil 1 AP. I'll do UOA's on the first few changes, too, and will post them up. I've got the Blackstone bottles waiting.


18 Jeep JLUR Wrangler 3.6 5k
15 Ford Transit 93k, Reman 3.5 @85k
08 Jeep Wrangler 3.8 123k
01 Ford F150 Crew 5.4 79k
99 Mercedes E430 Sport 89k
Re: 0W20 Conventional....Does Anybody Make it? [Re: IndyFan] #4666370
02/15/18 12:44 AM
02/15/18 12:44 AM
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,090
Europe
SonofJoe Online content
SonofJoe  Online Content
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,090
Europe
I've never attempted it but logically you could make a 0W20 from 'conventional' Group II base oils. The only problem would be that it would likely have a horribly high (and off-grade) Noack volatility. You could mitigate this somewhat by severely throttling back on the DI content and switching from OCP to HSD VII (like the long dead Shellvis 600). However some things are just not meant to be and conventional 0W20 is probably one of them...

Re: 0W20 Conventional....Does Anybody Make it? [Re: SonofJoe] #4666425
02/15/18 06:40 AM
02/15/18 06:40 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,000
Texas
4WD Offline
4WD  Offline
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,000
Texas
Originally Posted By: SonofJoe
I've never attempted it but logically you could make a 0W20 from 'conventional' Group II base oils. The only problem would be that it would likely have a horribly high (and off-grade) Noack volatility. You could mitigate this somewhat by severely throttling back on the DI content and switching from OCP to HSD VII (like the long dead Shellvis 600). However some things are just not meant to be and conventional 0W20 is probably one of them...


Seems the oil companies might have their own CAFE ~ corporate average final expenses...if it costs a bit more to make 0w20but they can economically make the specs on 30s with mainly GII/GIII it all averages out

Re: 0W20 Conventional....Does Anybody Make it? [Re: IndyFan] #4666504
02/15/18 08:50 AM
02/15/18 08:50 AM
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 207
California
Bullwinkle007 Offline
Bullwinkle007  Offline
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 207
California
I believe the only purpose to a 0/20 oil is for an engine company to make higher gas mileage for EPA bullcrap. Will each individual actually see w difference in fuel mileage between a 0/20 and a 5-30? Maybe 1mpg, to an individual that's nothing but mutiply that times all the vehicles.

Next question will an engine last longer on a 5-30 or a 0-20?

Re: 0W20 Conventional....Does Anybody Make it? [Re: Bullwinkle007] #4666525
02/15/18 09:14 AM
02/15/18 09:14 AM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 577
TN
TTK Offline
TTK  Offline
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 577
TN
Originally Posted By: Bullwinkle007
I believe the only purpose to a 0/20 oil is for an engine company to make higher gas mileage for EPA bullcrap. Will each individual actually see w difference in fuel mileage between a 0/20 and a 5-30? Maybe 1mpg, to an individual that's nothing but mutiply that times all the vehicles.

Next question will an engine last longer on a 5-30 or a 0-20?

It is one of life's great mysteries


2010 Volvo V70-3.2
Current Fill:Castrol Magnatec 5w-30
2018 Subaru Forester, 0w-20 Subaru oil
2001 Chevrolet Prism:Castrol Magnatec 5w-30

Re: 0W20 Conventional....Does Anybody Make it? [Re: IndyFan] #4666552
02/15/18 09:42 AM
02/15/18 09:42 AM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 12,192
N.H, U.S.A.
ARCOgraphite Offline
ARCOgraphite  Offline
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 12,192
N.H, U.S.A.
Do any conventional ILSAC GF5 oils exist? Even 10W30?


2014 Nissan Rogue S CVT, OC#9 41392mi-QSUD10W30 + M110A CHAMP Filter; 2017 Subaru Crosstrek CVT OC#2 ?? mi-SOA/Idemitsu 0w20 + SOA Filter
Re: 0W20 Conventional....Does Anybody Make it? [Re: Bullwinkle007] #4666570
02/15/18 09:59 AM
02/15/18 09:59 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 13,837
Illinois
tig1 Offline
tig1  Offline
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 13,837
Illinois
Originally Posted By: Bullwinkle007
I believe the only purpose to a 0/20 oil is for an engine company to make higher gas mileage for EPA bullcrap. Will each individual actually see w difference in fuel mileage between a 0/20 and a 5-30? Maybe 1mpg, to an individual that's nothing but mutiply that times all the vehicles.

Next question will an engine last longer on a 5-30 or a 0-20?


If you had to ask the question then apparently there is no evidence that 20wt oils cause shorter engine life, since engine builders have been calling for 20wt oils now for 12-15 years. I even used M1 5-20 in my Dodge engine in 1978 with no problem except a little more oil use than the 10-40 Valvoline I started with.


Since you have problems with 20wt oils then use somin else. For me, I chose 0-20 for clean engines, smooth engines, nice cold temp starts, smooth acceleration, moderate 10K OCIs, quite and long lasting timing chains, very long engine life, great protection in high temps, very low oil consumption, and if there are other reasons I think of you all will be the first to know.

Last edited by tig1; 02/15/18 10:07 AM.

2007 Ford Fusion 232,000 miles
M1 0-20 EP
2017 Ford Fusion 55K
M1 0-20 EP
10,000 mile OCIs on both engines
M1 ATF and MC LV
M1 10-30 in all OPE
MC filters

Re: 0W20 Conventional....Does Anybody Make it? [Re: IndyFan] #4666613
02/15/18 10:37 AM
02/15/18 10:37 AM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,659
Balearic Islands , Spain
FordCapriDriver Offline
FordCapriDriver  Offline
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,659
Balearic Islands , Spain
I sometimes think tig1 is actually just a bot that has been programmed to repeat the same thing over and over ( no offence intended )


1975 Ford Capri II Ghia 3000 V6, - Shell Helix HX3 20W-50 w/ 20% Rimula R4X 15W-40 HDEO.

1988 Ford Escort Mk4 Xr3i Cabrio, - Shell Rimula R4X 15W-40, w/ 30% Helix 3 20W-50.
Re: 0W20 Conventional....Does Anybody Make it? [Re: FordCapriDriver] #4666624
02/15/18 10:45 AM
02/15/18 10:45 AM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,898
Upper Midwest
kschachn Offline
kschachn  Offline
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,898
Upper Midwest
Originally Posted By: FordCapriDriver
I sometimes think tig1 is actually just a bot that has been programmed to repeat the same thing over and over ( no offence intended )

Perhaps but it is a reasonable response to the myriad of new users (real or imagined) that post the same question over and over with the same predispositions.


1994 BMW 530i, 228K
1996 Honda Accord, 263K
1999 Toyota Sienna, 400K
2000 Toyota ECHO, 271K
Re: 0W20 Conventional....Does Anybody Make it? [Re: kschachn] #4666663
02/15/18 11:11 AM
02/15/18 11:11 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,000
Texas
4WD Offline
4WD  Offline
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,000
Texas
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: FordCapriDriver
I sometimes think tig1 is actually just a bot that has been programmed to repeat the same thing over and over ( no offence intended )

Perhaps but it is a reasonable response to the myriad of new users (real or imagined) that post the same question over and over with the same predispositions.


I would add he started using a controversial product decades ago - that has undergone many formula changes and proof of performance tests etc ... he still uses it with confidence and uses his good success in many viscosity debates when he just added the brand needed or not. Buts lets not pretend there were shelves full of 20s back when he started

Re: 0W20 Conventional....Does Anybody Make it? [Re: IndyFan] #4666707
02/15/18 12:06 PM
02/15/18 12:06 PM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 8,776
Texas
440Magnum Offline
440Magnum  Offline
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 8,776
Texas
Originally Posted By: IndyFan
Originally Posted By: JLTD
Nope, not to my knowledge.

edit:

Originally Posted By: IndyFan's signature

18 Jeep JLUR Wrangler 3.6 <1k


How's the new Wrangler JL?


It's refinement has exceeded my expectations, by a wide margin. It is REALLY nice, especially the Gen 2 Pentastar and Aisin manual transmission. They are a perfect match and are super smooth and quiet. I've already put a 2" Mopar lift and 315/70/17 tires on it. The Mopar lift came with Fox shocks, and I'm actually stunned at how smooth and nice it rides. I expected it to be stiffer. I couldn't be happier. I've put 1,1oo miles on it, so far. I'm planning the first oil change at 2500. I'm going with Mobil 1 EP and a Fram Ultra Guard for the first oil change. I'll run that for 5k miles and then will go to Mobil 1 AP. I'll do UOA's on the first few changes, too, and will post them up. I've got the Blackstone bottles waiting.


Good to hear, the JK was already quite impressive. I did see "Dirt Every Day" do a series of videos introducing the JL and was very impressed by all the incremental changes Jeep made to it so that its even easier for owners to modify than the JK was. And really impressed by the fact that they still offer a manual trans (though not with the forthcoming diesel option, unfortunately, since the current trans doesn't have a high enough torque rating and the volume is too small to justify another manual transmission). A manual combined with a Pentastar must be very nice, combined with the diesel would be just outstanding.


'66 Dodge Polara & '69 Dodge Coronet R/T both 440/727
'08 Ram 1500 4.7/545RFE
'12 Challenger SRT8 392/6-speed
'99 XJ 4x4 4.0/AX15, '14 WK2 4x4 3.6/8HP
Re: 0W20 Conventional....Does Anybody Make it? [Re: TTK] #4666715
02/15/18 12:14 PM
02/15/18 12:14 PM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 8,776
Texas
440Magnum Offline
440Magnum  Offline
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 8,776
Texas
Originally Posted By: TTK
Originally Posted By: Bullwinkle007

Next question will an engine last longer on a 5-30 or a 0-20?

It is one of life's great mysteries


Not really a mystery. Plenty of Ford 4.6 2-valve engines in Crown Vic taxis have exceeded 300k on 5w20 and 0w20.

People often mistake film strength for viscosity. High viscosity can "prop up" the film strength of a mediocre lubricant, sure, but a well designed lubricant can have low viscosity with high film strength. And engines designed to uniformly deliver thin oil to everywhere it needs to go can take full advantage. I'm not going to be putting 5w20 or 0w20 in one of my 1960's big blocks, but neither am I going to expect one more mile of engine life from putting an Xw30 into my wifes 2014 v6 spec'd for 5w20/0w20. And I might even encounter a slow cam phaser response error code with a heavier oil.


'66 Dodge Polara & '69 Dodge Coronet R/T both 440/727
'08 Ram 1500 4.7/545RFE
'12 Challenger SRT8 392/6-speed
'99 XJ 4x4 4.0/AX15, '14 WK2 4x4 3.6/8HP
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