OCI Length and Need for Synthetic Filter?

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I've got a 2000 Honda Insight that I've done 7500 mile OCIs on for the life of the car. That car now has over 203,000 miles on it. Also, I've used oversized Baldwin and Hastings filters on this car. I change the filter every oil change. My UOAs with Blackstone are always very good.

I now own a 2015 Toyota Prius Plug-in. Toyota recommends a 10,000 mile OCI. Toyota does not require synthetic filters for this car. But I'm curious/concerned about going 10,000 miles on a traditional filter. (Granted, probably about 10-20% of those 10,000 miles, the car is driven in EV mode, so we aren't really putting 10,000 miles on the filter.)

Still, at what length of OCI is it generally understood that one should switch to a synthetic filter? I'm tempted to go 10,000 miles with a regular filter, check out the filter, and do a UOA and see what happens.
 
The OE cartridge for my car is cellulose media and the factory recommend filter interval is 30k miles.

Most German cars are on a 10k/1yr OCI with cellulose media. Some of the same cars have a variable interval in Europe, and go up to 30,000 kilometers between changes.
 
I have repeatedly run 10k and even some 15k mile OFCIs on "normal" cellulose filters (Wix and TGs).
Taking the filter apart only proved to be an exercise in futility; boring and nothing wrong.
 
Originally Posted By: ffxfina3
I've got a 2000 Honda Insight that I've done 7500 mile OCIs on for the life of the car. That car now has over 203,000 miles on it. Also, I've used oversized Baldwin and Hastings filters on this car. I change the filter every oil change. My UOAs with Blackstone are always very good.

I now own a 2015 Toyota Prius Plug-in. Toyota recommends a 10,000 mile OCI. Toyota does not require synthetic filters for this car. But I'm curious/concerned about going 10,000 miles on a traditional filter. (Granted, probably about 10-20% of those 10,000 miles, the car is driven in EV mode, so we aren't really putting 10,000 miles on the filter.)

Still, at what length of OCI is it generally understood that one should switch to a synthetic filter? I'm tempted to go 10,000 miles with a regular filter, check out the filter, and do a UOA and see what happens.


That’s an excellent data point. What weight and grade were you running? I assume synthetic?
 
Originally Posted By: Snagglefoot
Personally I think the synthetic filter thing is more marketing than anything, but I do happen to use one; Fram Ultra.
Marketing does work wonders.
 
Thanks for everybody's replies. Nice to hear that traditional media is probably OK. I think I'll stick to my mentioned plan and examine the media and do a UOA and go from there.

Originally Posted By: Snagglefoot

That’s an excellent data point. What weight and grade were you running? I assume synthetic?


Assume you are referring to the Insight. I've used three different oils over the life of the car -- all 0w-20. Started out with Pennzoil Platinum. I used PP until 134,970 mile mark. Then, I switched to the expensive Eneos Sustina. I used that until 179,990 mile mark. I've used M1 EP for the last 23,000 miles.

-Bryan
 
Originally Posted By: CT8
Originally Posted By: Snagglefoot
Personally I think the synthetic filter thing is more marketing than anything, but I do happen to use one; Fram Ultra.
Marketing does work wonders.

The reason filter makers recommend sythetic media filters with syntheic oil is because most people run longer OCIs with synthetic oil, which means the filter should have a higher holding capacity to match that longer OCI.

That's based on holding capacity measurements done in the lab testing, not based on how it looks after use.
 
The TRD is another choice from Toyota and gives full synthetic media. Hybrids and plug in hybrids are not necessarily easy on oil. They often run short times and turn off. On my Volt my gas used since last Sept is 1.5 gals over 1300 miles. I don't drive a lot. All the charging was free. I am trying to run the engine more this year. Today I drove it 10 miles on the engine, which gets it warmed up properly. It won't go on again for another two weeks or more. On the 07 Prius bought new it always had 5K changes, and I wouldn't go 10K no matter what anyone says.
 
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
I have repeatedly run 10k and even some 15k mile OFCIs on "normal" cellulose filters (Wix and TGs).
Taking the filter apart only proved to be an exercise in futility; boring and nothing wrong.

Same story here, except my change intervals were more typically around 17k, and my cellulose filters were mostly Purolators (before their tearing epidemic), plus a few orange Frams and one Toyota (Denso).

People worry too much about non-problems!
 
Originally Posted By: goodtimes
Hybrids and plug in hybrids are not necessarily easy on oil. They often run short times and turn off. On my Volt my gas used since last Sept is 1.5 gals over 1300 miles. I don't drive a lot. All the charging was free. I am trying to run the engine more this year. Today I drove it 10 miles on the engine, which gets it warmed up properly. It won't go on again for another two weeks or more. On the 07 Prius bought new it always had 5K changes, and I wouldn't go 10K no matter what anyone says.


Curious on what kind of OCI/FCI does the manual shows. I can see how the engine on a hybrid might be used pretty inconsistently, and therefore could make a set schedule too general. Maybe they use an OLM that takes into account how many miles or hours the engine ran vs how many miles the car traveled in total (?). Most automakers today say change the oil every year regardless of mileage.
 
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
... Curious on what kind of OCI/FCI does the manual shows. I can see how the engine on a hybrid might be used pretty inconsistently, and therefore could make a set schedule too general. Maybe they use an OLM that takes into account how many miles or hours the engine ran vs how many miles the car traveled in total (?). ...
No, nothing that finely tuned. Toyota likes to keep things super-simple for us dummies. Thus, there's no true OLM, and no difference in oil recommended or in their recommended change intervals for hybrids vs. most of their other models. 0W-20 for everything, everywhere in the USA, every 10k (5k for adverse conditions), year-round.
 
Originally Posted By: CT8
Originally Posted By: Snagglefoot
Personally I think the synthetic filter thing is more marketing than anything, but I do happen to use one; Fram Ultra.
Marketing does work wonders.

Canadian pricing on the lower tier Fram stuff is a lot more obnoxious than it is for the Ultra. I can get something similar or better to a regular Fram for much cheaper. But, the Fram Ultra on special winds up being cheaper than the competition of that tier (i.e. Mobil 1, Wix XP, NAPA Platinum), and by a significant margin.

I like the Fram silver can, but it's hard to justify an $11 Fram silver over an $8 Wix or a $12 to $13 Fram Ultra. Both the orange can and silver can here have positioned themselves in no man's land, at least as far as I'm concerned. I suspect their sales, thanks to market penetration, would suggest otherwise, but that's another matter.
 
Originally Posted By: ffxfina3
Thanks for everybody's replies. Nice to hear that traditional media is probably OK. I think I'll stick to my mentioned plan and examine the media and do a UOA and go from there.

Originally Posted By: Snagglefoot

That’s an excellent data point. What weight and grade were you running? I assume synthetic?


Assume you are referring to the Insight. I've used three different oils over the life of the car -- all 0w-20. Started out with Pennzoil Platinum. I used PP until 134,970 mile mark. Then, I switched to the expensive Eneos Sustina. I used that until 179,990 mile mark. I've used M1 EP for the last 23,000 miles.

-Bryan


There you go, over 200,000 miles with 0W-20 synthetic. Didn’t anyone tell you that you need 40 weight oil? LOL!
 
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: goodtimes
Hybrids and plug in hybrids are not necessarily easy on oil. They often run short times and turn off. On my Volt my gas used since last Sept is 1.5 gals over 1300 miles. I don't drive a lot. All the charging was free. I am trying to run the engine more this year. Today I drove it 10 miles on the engine, which gets it warmed up properly. It won't go on again for another two weeks or more. On the 07 Prius bought new it always had 5K changes, and I wouldn't go 10K no matter what anyone says.


Curious on what kind of OCI/FCI does the manual shows. I can see how the engine on a hybrid might be used pretty inconsistently, and therefore could make a set schedule too general. Maybe they use an OLM that takes into account how many miles or hours the engine ran vs how many miles the car traveled in total (?). Most automakers today say change the oil every year regardless of mileage.


No mileage given in the manual. They say use the OLM which uses a variety of inputs from the engine. It also uses a two year timer, so even with 10 miles, if it's two years, oil and filter get changed. Mine is at about 47% aftyer 13 months or so and about 350 miles on the engine.
 
Originally Posted By: goodtimes
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: goodtimes
Hybrids and plug in hybrids are not necessarily easy on oil. They often run short times and turn off. On my Volt my gas used since last Sept is 1.5 gals over 1300 miles. I don't drive a lot. All the charging was free. I am trying to run the engine more this year. Today I drove it 10 miles on the engine, which gets it warmed up properly. It won't go on again for another two weeks or more. On the 07 Prius bought new it always had 5K changes, and I wouldn't go 10K no matter what anyone says.


Curious on what kind of OCI/FCI does the manual shows. I can see how the engine on a hybrid might be used pretty inconsistently, and therefore could make a set schedule too general. Maybe they use an OLM that takes into account how many miles or hours the engine ran vs how many miles the car traveled in total (?). Most automakers today say change the oil every year regardless of mileage.


No mileage given in the manual. They say use the OLM which uses a variety of inputs from the engine. It also uses a two year timer, so even with 10 miles, if it's two years, oil and filter get changed. Mine is at about 47% aftyer 13 months or so and about 350 miles on the engine.


The Vettes were all OLM or 1 year. Interesting that they say OLM or two years, especially on an engine that might get a lot of short duration running. All new Fords are also 1 year max, and their OLM will count down to 0% just sitting in the garage and not driven.
 
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