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Engine startup wear understanding #4664588
02/13/18 08:38 AM
02/13/18 08:38 AM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 880
California
mbacfp Offline OP
mbacfp  Offline OP
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 880
California
Hello all,

I know there is a lot of oil company marketing regarding engine startup wear and how to reduce it, etc. Motor oils have various anti-wear additives that are more effective at different temperature ranges.

So, tell me if I am wrong, but it seems most of the wear occurs in that middle temperature range when additive effectiveness (cold anti-wear) drops off and (hot anti-wear) kicks in as the oil reaches full temperature.

Is that the general understanding on this subject? Good day all.


2014 F-550 PSD..........M1 Delvac ESP 5w-40 + OEM
2018 Dodge Charger SRT Hellcat
2012 Toyota Sienna LTD 3.5L V6
2003 Dodge Durango R/T 4x4 5.9L V8
Re: Engine startup wear understanding [Re: mbacfp] #4664596
02/13/18 08:43 AM
02/13/18 08:43 AM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,418
Iowegia - USA
MolaKule Offline
MolaKule  Offline
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,418
Iowegia - USA
There are Anti-wear and anti-friction chemistry for Cold start, mid-range, and hot engine regimes.

Cold start wear is way overblown.


Why are oil filters placed over chassis rails and cross members?
Re: Engine startup wear understanding [Re: mbacfp] #4664599
02/13/18 08:45 AM
02/13/18 08:45 AM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 4,510
Storrs, Connecticut
jeepman3071 Offline
jeepman3071  Offline
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 4,510
Storrs, Connecticut
Most of the wear from start up occurs during the moments between when the engine starts and when it builds oil pressure. The concept behind lower viscosity oils is that they flow much better in cold environments, so the engine bearings will have oil quicker.


2000 Jeep Cherokee 4.0L (181k) - Pennzoil 10w30, Napa Gold 1516, Magnefine trans filter
2009 BMW 328i (34k) - Castrol Edge Euro 0w40, MANN HU816X
Re: Engine startup wear understanding [Re: mbacfp] #4664605
02/13/18 08:49 AM
02/13/18 08:49 AM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 20,337
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Trav Offline
Trav  Offline
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 20,337
MA, Mittelfranken.de
I never took an engine apart and found dry bearings, I would think the residual oil protects well enough til it get oil pressure. shrug


ASE L1, Master. Deutsch Meisterbrief.
Re: Engine startup wear understanding [Re: jeepman3071] #4664606
02/13/18 08:51 AM
02/13/18 08:51 AM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,199
Upper Midwest
kschachn Online content
kschachn  Online Content
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,199
Upper Midwest
Originally Posted By: jeepman3071
Most of the wear from start up occurs during the moments between when the engine starts and when it builds oil pressure. The concept behind lower viscosity oils is that they flow much better in cold environments, so the engine bearings will have oil quicker.

Not if the papers and references posted on here are true. It's what seems like would be the case but apparently is not.


1994 BMW 530i, 234K
1996 Honda Accord, 264K
1999 Toyota Sienna, 404K
2000 Toyota ECHO, 279K
Re: Engine startup wear understanding [Re: mbacfp] #4664612
02/13/18 09:00 AM
02/13/18 09:00 AM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 880
California
mbacfp Offline OP
mbacfp  Offline OP
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 880
California
Perhaps engine startup wear could also be contributed to human driving behavior. I think we all have seen people get into their cars and tear off. Appreciate the input.


2014 F-550 PSD..........M1 Delvac ESP 5w-40 + OEM
2018 Dodge Charger SRT Hellcat
2012 Toyota Sienna LTD 3.5L V6
2003 Dodge Durango R/T 4x4 5.9L V8
Re: Engine startup wear understanding [Re: mbacfp] #4664617
02/13/18 09:06 AM
02/13/18 09:06 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,903
Canuck living in California
KrisZ Offline
KrisZ  Offline
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,903
Canuck living in California
It's quite amazing how many members from southern states are so concerned with cold starting and startup wear. Proof the marketing deps know what they're doing. Probably more so than the all knowing engineers that get cited here all the time.


2015 Dodge Grand Caravan-27k miles.
2006 Mazda 3-163k miles
Re: Engine startup wear understanding [Re: mbacfp] #4664623
02/13/18 09:12 AM
02/13/18 09:12 AM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 880
California
mbacfp Offline OP
mbacfp  Offline OP
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 880
California
Very True KrisZ. Mine is more of an interest than a worry for me personally. Just curious as I appreciate people and knowledge here.


2014 F-550 PSD..........M1 Delvac ESP 5w-40 + OEM
2018 Dodge Charger SRT Hellcat
2012 Toyota Sienna LTD 3.5L V6
2003 Dodge Durango R/T 4x4 5.9L V8
Re: Engine startup wear understanding [Re: Trav] #4664624
02/13/18 09:15 AM
02/13/18 09:15 AM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,418
Iowegia - USA
MolaKule Offline
MolaKule  Offline
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,418
Iowegia - USA
Originally Posted By: Trav
I never took an engine apart and found dry bearings, I would think the residual oil protects well enough til it get oil pressure. shrug


thumbsup thumbsup

Not only that, the AW and FM additives don't separate from the oil film just because the oil is cold.

Last edited by MolaKule; 02/13/18 09:17 AM.

Why are oil filters placed over chassis rails and cross members?
Re: Engine startup wear understanding [Re: mbacfp] #4664625
02/13/18 09:15 AM
02/13/18 09:15 AM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 595
Margate England
Claud Offline
Claud  Offline
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 595
Margate England
I think bore and piston wear are the main issues in a healthy engine. The pistons and bores are cold so haven't expanded to their properly warmed up shape, also cold oil might not be getting thrown under the pistons as it would when hot.

Claud.

Re: Engine startup wear understanding [Re: mbacfp] #4664633
02/13/18 09:23 AM
02/13/18 09:23 AM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 10,476
ROCHESTER, NY
Char Baby Offline
Char Baby  Offline
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 10,476
ROCHESTER, NY
I used to be concerned about startup wear until I joined BITOG. Now, I don't overthink it!


"Retired"
-----------------------------------

'80 Firebird FORMULA V8/4bbl-purchased "NEW"
'15 Nissan Altima 2.5 SV
'15 Honda Civic LX
Re: Engine startup wear understanding [Re: KrisZ] #4664638
02/13/18 09:28 AM
02/13/18 09:28 AM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,825
Taiwan
Ducked Offline
Ducked  Offline
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,825
Taiwan
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Probably more so than the all knowing engineers that get cited here all the time.


No engineers of any kind cited in this thread so far. In fact no citations at all.

Re: Engine startup wear understanding [Re: mbacfp] #4664639
02/13/18 09:28 AM
02/13/18 09:28 AM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,742
Balearic Islands , Spain
FordCapriDriver Offline
FordCapriDriver  Offline
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,742
Balearic Islands , Spain
Startup wear is highest whenever the engine is cold, but i don't overthink it, i don't warm up any of my cars at all and right now all three of my cars have over 100k miles, driving normally is what warms them up the quickest.


1975 Ford Capri II Ghia 3000 V6, - Shell Helix HX3 20W-50 w/ 20% Rimula R4X 15W-40 HDEO.

1988 Ford Escort Mk4 Xr3i Cabrio, - Shell Rimula R4X 15W-40, w/ 30% Helix 3 20W-50.

Finnish expat in Spain.
Re: Engine startup wear understanding [Re: Char Baby] #4664643
02/13/18 09:32 AM
02/13/18 09:32 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,903
Canuck living in California
KrisZ Offline
KrisZ  Offline
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,903
Canuck living in California
Originally Posted By: Char Baby
I used to be concerned about startup wear until I joined BITOG. Now, I don't overthink it!


Same here, unfortunately I feel some are the opposite. They read a bunch of posts about dry starts, how anything but 0wXX oils will cause extra wear, and they start worrying.

Without a bit of technical knowledge or experience it's quite easy to start believing claims that only sound valid in the most simplistic terms.


2015 Dodge Grand Caravan-27k miles.
2006 Mazda 3-163k miles
Re: Engine startup wear understanding [Re: mbacfp] #4664644
02/13/18 09:35 AM
02/13/18 09:35 AM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 880
California
mbacfp Offline OP
mbacfp  Offline OP
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 880
California
Is Castrol's whole Magnatic stuff mostly marketing?


2014 F-550 PSD..........M1 Delvac ESP 5w-40 + OEM
2018 Dodge Charger SRT Hellcat
2012 Toyota Sienna LTD 3.5L V6
2003 Dodge Durango R/T 4x4 5.9L V8
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