Harley Davidson Recalls 175,000 Bikes- Brake Issue

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Aging brake fluid? That sounds like a seal compatibility issue moreso than a FMVHS regulated fluid issue.
* after reading the recall they're saying that the system can fail if the fluid isn't replaced every two years. I agree that brake fluid should be replaced and European cars specify 2 year intervals which I adhere to on nearly everything I own but I wouldn't expect corrosion in the system to cause failure if I went 3-4 years between flushes.
 
Originally Posted By: LoneRanger
The inevitable Harley bashers arriving in thread in 5...4...3...2...1...

Me First:
-My head hurts in the summer from all the broom broom broom from the neighborhood Harley dealer
-Cannot even enjoy an open air window without ears hurt and nose smelling dumped gas....

P.S. How many Americans does Harley and Harley dealer employ?
The local dealer is also a regular host of a rock and a country local radio stations, which is why a give them a pass...
 
And how often do auto owners change brake fluid?

I'll guess that it rarely happens.
Two year changes seem anal to many, two year changes
REQUIRED indicates a problem.


My 2¢
 
My 2009 Dyna owners manual says to flush and refill with fresh DOT4 brake fluid every 2 years. I think the recall is for ABS models. I flushed mine in 2016 when I replaced a brake light switch. I'll probably flush again this summer. I don't have a problem with being anal about brakes on a motorcycle.
wink.gif
 
Originally Posted By: dwendt44
And how often do auto owners change brake fluid?

I'll guess that it rarely happens.
Two year changes seem anal to many, two year changes
REQUIRED indicates a problem.


My 2¢


The problem is maintenance neglect. And you're right, brake fluid is an often neglected maintenance item. Cars will eventually develop brake system problems too, if their brake system is neglected. When I ride one of my Sportbikes on the track, I change the brake fluid before every outing. For less demanding street riding that the average Harley is likely to see, every two years is okay.
 
While I do agree that the brake/fork fluid are some of the most neglected fluids on a motorcycle; having deposits form if in use for more than two years that potentially cause brake failure is a serious problem. I would argue that most motorcycles on the road today have brake fluid that's been in use for longer than two years with no serious ill effects (besides moisture saturation and reduced boiling point). It makes me wonder if there is something else going on with the brake fluid or components/materials in the braking system that are susceptible to deposits and causing the issue.

For instance, I checked the owners manual for a 2011 Yamaha Vstar 1300 Tourer and they state to check: operation, fluid level, fluid leakage, and to change the brake pads if necessary in their schedule for periodic maintenance (along with other models including their FZ1, and YZF-R1), not a specific bi-annual brake fluid flush (although this varies between manufacturers). 2011 Yamaha Vstar 1300 Tourer Owners Manual


For instance I have a 2007 Yamaha FZ1 that I ride on the street, and also ride at the track once a month/every other month for the track organization that I work for. I am a stickler for maintenance and meticulously take care of my bikes, but my brake fluid is the original that the bike came with in 2007! I know, I've been ready to bleed the brakes many times, but my braking performance has been fantastic on the street and on the track hence me continuing to postpone bleeding my brakes (due to age), with no braking failures or noticeable decreased braking performance. I know my exception doesn't make it the rule, but I've never heard of braking issues due to 2+ year old brake fluid that can lead to a potential failure.
 
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Originally Posted By: Analyzer
While I do agree that the brake/fork fluid are some of the most neglected fluids on a motorcycle; having deposits form if in use for more than two years that potentially cause brake failure is a serious problem. I would argue that most motorcycles on the road today have brake fluid that's been in use for longer than two years with no serious ill effects (besides moisture saturation and reduced boiling point). ... I know my exception doesn't make it the rule, but I've never heard of braking issues due to 2+ year old brake fluid that can lead to a potential failure.


Your correct, your exception doesnt make it rule.
I had the rear brake on my 2008 Yamaha Vstar 1300 Tourer fail in the Smoky Mountains, coming down a mountain, with my wife on the back no less and can fully "testify" all I am typing here.

THE REASON FOR THIS REAR BRAKE FAILURE WAS MOISTURE IN THE BRAKE FLUID BOILED UNDER HEAVY USE, CREATED VAPOR LOCK WHICH COMPLETELY DISABLED THE REAR CALIPER, BRAKE PETAL JUST WENT ALL THE WAY DOWN LIKE IT WASNT EVEN CONNECTED TO ANYTHING.

WE WERE ON A STEEP DECLINE COMING DOWN FROM THE TOP OF A MOUNTAIN, NO PLACE TO PULL OFF, OF COURSE PLENTY OF CURVES, TRYING TO USE ENGINE BRAKING AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE AND HOPING TO GOD THE FRONT BRAKE WASNT GOING TO GO OUT ETHER.

That 10 minutes or so (maybe more, maybe less) were some of the longest 10 minutes in my life, first most concerned for my wife on the back and how her life was depending on my performance, just kept reminding my self to keep calm, keep calm. We got to the bottom of the mountain, what a relief, thought to myself at least I can get to someplace with the front brake, if again, it didnt stop working, yet, about 10 or 15 minutes later, the rear brake started working, once the brake fluid cooled down.

It continued to work the rest of the trip, I was advised by forum 1300 members right after I got back to our motel it was vapor lock and avoid extremes until I can get home to change the fluid, which I did and never an issue again.

Because of Yamaha willful disregard to properly post required brake fluid changes in the maintenance section of the manual where all the required items are posted, we very well could have lost our lives. After this experience I checked again, as others who had told me, sure enough, it is posted in the maintenance section but not on the maintenance chart, its posted in the "notes" section under the chart.

Im telling you, it was freaking scary and wondered to myself how in the [censored] can a manufacturer bury this requirement in the notes section?

Anyway, point of my story is not to defend Harley, it is to tell a real story about a non Harley bike because Harley (the American brand) gets bashed by Americans, yet the other manufacturers get off the hook, part of the reason is the other Manufactures have not even close to the same number of bikes on the road so you dont hear about issues like you do with HD.

I was shocked and so [censored] at Yamaha, loved the bike.

Anyway, change your freaking brake fluid like the manual says, even if you dont ride mountains, two up, luggage ect. it will help your system last longer by taking the moisture out of it with brake fluid changes and for gods sake, stop comparing the brake systems of automobiles and trucks with motorcycles, my god. (not directed at the person I am replying to by any means)

I just tell this story over and over, hoping if I prevent someone or their spouse from getting killed, disabled or injured I have done good for myself.
 
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So Harley is going to recall the bikes because as expected, people do not follow the manual and they have to further idiot proof the bike. In Yamaha case with my past bike, there is no pressure because there are not even 10s of thousands on the road to attract the attention that 100,000 plus Harley bikes do. Its that simple.
 
Originally Posted By: Analyzer
...

For instance, I checked the owners manual for a 2011 Yamaha Vstar 1300 Tourer and they state to check: operation, fluid level, fluid leakage, and to change the brake pads if necessary in their schedule for periodic maintenance (along with other models including their FZ1, and YZF-R1), not a specific bi-annual brake fluid flush (although this varies between manufacturers). 2011 Yamaha Vstar 1300 Tourer Owners Manual




You are incorrect, check under the "NOTES" section of the maintenance schedule, yes, exactly, that is how I missed it.
Its under "Notes", you are also supposed to rebuild the calipers and master cylinders too! EVERY TWO YEARS on the Yamaha 1300 Tourer!
Yet the Harley bashers never stop and they will make an excuse for Yamaha though. (not directed at you)

Click here and go to page 48 in the Yama...er displays PDF

TO ANYONE INTERESTED PLEASE READ THE LAST FEW POSTS, IMPORTANT IF YOU OWN ANY MOTORCYCLE.
 
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Originally Posted By: alarmguy
Originally Posted By: Analyzer
While I do agree that the brake/fork fluid are some of the most neglected fluids on a motorcycle; having deposits form if in use for more than two years that potentially cause brake failure is a serious problem. I would argue that most motorcycles on the road today have brake fluid that's been in use for longer than two years with no serious ill effects (besides moisture saturation and reduced boiling point). ... I know my exception doesn't make it the rule, but I've never heard of braking issues due to 2+ year old brake fluid that can lead to a potential failure.


Your correct, your exception doesnt make it rule.
I had the rear brake on my 2008 Yamaha Vstar 1300 Tourer fail in the Smoky Mountains, coming down a mountain, with my wife on the back no less and can fully "testify" all I am typing here.

THE REASON FOR THIS REAR BRAKE FAILURE WAS MOISTURE IN THE BRAKE FLUID BOILED UNDER HEAVY USE, CREATED VAPOR LOCK WHICH COMPLETELY DISABLED THE REAR CALIPER, BRAKE PETAL JUST WENT ALL THE WAY DOWN LIKE IT WASNT EVEN CONNECTED TO ANYTHING.

WE WERE ON A STEEP DECLINE COMING DOWN FROM THE TOP OF A MOUNTAIN, NO PLACE TO PULL OFF, OF COURSE PLENTY OF CURVES, TRYING TO USE ENGINE BRAKING AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE AND HOPING TO GOD THE FRONT BRAKE WASNT GOING TO GO OUT ETHER.

That 10 minutes or so (maybe more, maybe less) were some of the longest 10 minutes in my life, first most concerned for my wife on the back and how her life was depending on my performance, just kept reminding my self to keep calm, keep calm. We got to the bottom of the mountain, what a relief, thought to myself at least I can get to someplace with the front brake, if again, it didnt stop working, yet, about 10 or 15 minutes later, the rear brake started working, once the brake fluid cooled down.

It continued to work the rest of the trip, I was advised by forum 1300 members right after I got back to our motel it was vapor lock and avoid extremes until I can get home to change the fluid, which I did and never an issue again.

Because of Yamaha willful disregard to properly post required brake fluid changes in the maintenance section of the manual where all the required items are posted, we very well could have lost our lives. After this experience I checked again, as others who had told me, sure enough, it is posted in the maintenance section but not on the maintenance chart, its posted in the "notes" section under the chart.

Im telling you, it was freaking scary and wondered to myself how in the [censored] can a manufacturer bury this requirement in the notes section?

Anyway, point of my story is not to defend Harley, it is to tell a real story about a non Harley bike because Harley (the American brand) gets bashed by Americans, yet the other manufacturers get off the hook, part of the reason is the other Manufactures have not even close to the same number of bikes on the road so you dont hear about issues like you do with HD.

I was shocked and so [censored] at Yamaha, loved the bike.

Anyway, change your freaking brake fluid like the manual says, even if you dont ride mountains, two up, luggage ect. it will help your system last longer by taking the moisture out of it with brake fluid changes and for gods sake, stop comparing the brake systems of automobiles and trucks with motorcycles, my god. (not directed at the person I am replying to by any means)

I just tell this story over and over, hoping if I prevent someone or their spouse from getting killed, disabled or injured I have done good for myself.


Yikes! That's definitely a nerve racking scenario and Im glad you and your wife came out safe after the ride! You are correct about the asterisk next to the service schedule, Yamaha definitely should have included that in the actual service schedule instead of in the notes section after the fact ( I'm sorry I missed that). Although I'm sure the reasoning for the brake fluid replacement/caliper rebuild every two years is driven by lawyers to cover their butt in every possible scenario (I've also seen many manufacturers recommend all brake lines to be replaced within a handful of years regardless of their actual condition as well!).

None the less, I will be changing out my decade old brake fluid prior to my next track day and would recommend everyone check when they last serviced their brake system and make sure it hasn't been overlooked for too long!
 
Just to clarify I think everyone has been pretty good about not bashing any motorcycle brand in this topic (as of this moment);and the purpose of posting this recall is just to inform fellow riders who may have an affected model and keep them from experiencing any issues. I've managed the Parts & Service Departments at a multi-line motorcycle dealership and have seen recalls slip through the cracks because the manufacturer only has the origonal owners address and can't get the information out to the subsequent owners.

I also disagree that just because a motorcycle manufacturer doesn't sell as many models as another doesn't mean they'll be able to slide through the cracks and won't be hit with a recall from the NHTSA. The Polaris Slingshot (which is classified as a motorcycle) had a brake pressure switch recall that potentially allowed brake fluid to leak that only affected approximately 6800 motorcycles, but they were hit hard with a full blown recall as well. So I would say it's not picking on any particular brand, if there is any potential safety issues resulting in braking performance in either cars or motorcycles and the NHTSA is aware of it from owners, it's more than likely going to get investigated seriously.

Polaris Slingshot Recall
 
Hmm ... according to the recall, all Harley is doing is a free brake fluid change, which the owners were supposed to be doing all this time anyway as part of standard maintenance..

"The problem can be fixed with a flushing of the brake fluid, according to Harley-Davidson, which it will do without cost to the owners. A recall filing by the company said said it appears that the problem could be caused by owners who don't comply with the recommendation to replace the fluid every two years, but that a recall was issued because "the consequent sudden and complete loss of brakes, without warning, is a concern."

Im not defending Harley but this is caused by people who do not know or neglect to change brake fluid. Kind of a gray area for a manufacturer, as if the bike is properly maintained, not an issue. I had an issue on my Yamaha because of brake fluid, never was a recall there.

Good thread and post though and why I stress to everyone, change the darn brake fluid, its required every two years, no matter the brand in most cases.
 
Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
Brake fluid and fork fluid are the two most neglected maint items on most bikes.,,,


Ive got to agree with you on that, not sure if you know the darn new Rushmore bikes no longer have a drain for the fork fluid. From what I understand the pre Rushmore bikes did. This is one area where I am sure you will agree that is plain cheap on HD part, more so since they used to have them on the pre Rushmore bikes, if I understand correctly.

Anyway, it [censored] me off that I will have to bring it to a dealer to have the fork fluid changed at what I would imagine will be a lot of money. AS the forks have to be pulled and literally turned upside down vs the old way, take out a screw and let the fluid run out, again, if I understand correctly..
I never did fork fluid myself and guess I never will now. I will get it done by the dealer I guess.
 
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Maybe apples and oranges but during my 528e run. A caliper would get sticky at 3 or 4 yrs. Going through calipers and flushing the fluid every 2 yrs strikes me as a very reasonable maintenance item.
 
Originally Posted By: alarmguy
Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
Brake fluid and fork fluid are the two most neglected maint items on most bikes.,,,


Ive got to agree with you on that, not sure if you know the darn new Rushmore bikes no longer have a drain for the fork fluid. From what I understand the pre Rushmore bikes did. This is one area where I am sure you will agree that is plain cheap on HD part, more so since they used to have them on the pre Rushmore bikes, if I understand correctly.

Anyway, it [censored] me off that I will have to bring it to a dealer to have the fork fluid changed at what I would imagine will be a lot of money. AS the forks have to be pulled and literally turned upside down vs the old way, take out a screw and let the fluid run out, again, if I understand correctly..
I never did fork fluid myself and guess I never will now. I will get it done by the dealer I guess.


If their cartridge type you can't get all the oil out just by draining , you have to pump it out of the cartridge.
 
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