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Fram Ultra flow restrictive? #4656522
02/05/18 01:09 AM
02/05/18 01:09 AM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 106
Tennessee, United States
ZraHamilton Offline OP
ZraHamilton  Offline OP
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 106
Tennessee, United States
I am wondering if the extreme efficiency of the fram ultra (99% @ 20, 94% @ 10, and I even heard someone say 80% @ 5 microns) would create a large pressure differential and cause it to bypass often. The bypass valve is extremely flimsy and easy to push because of the weak spring and plastic valve. This seems like the biggest weakness of the ultra. If it bypasses often, that 99%+ becomes 0% lol.

Also, wouldn't the Wix XP have the lowest pressure differential of nearly any filter? (with fiberglass media and 50% @ 20 micron efficiency). If so, you get the filtering efficiency of many OEM filters, but with excellent flow, and the toughest construction.

Re: Fram Ultra flow restrictive? [Re: ZraHamilton] #4656524
02/05/18 01:11 AM
02/05/18 01:11 AM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 12,906
Northern Kentucky
901Memphis Offline
901Memphis  Offline
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 12,906
Northern Kentucky
No, the media is microglass, so the flow is higher AND more efficient than cellulose. The fram rep has posted flow charts before for specific part numbers and they are pretty much good enough to use for race applications.


2012 Chevy Cruze LT 1.4T - 50k
2002 Buick Century 130k - Built 4T65e(Maxlife) - Edge 0w40 + Fram XG3980
Re: Fram Ultra flow restrictive? [Re: ZraHamilton] #4656525
02/05/18 01:18 AM
02/05/18 01:18 AM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 106
Tennessee, United States
ZraHamilton Offline OP
ZraHamilton  Offline OP
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 106
Tennessee, United States
Race applications without bypassing?

Re: Fram Ultra flow restrictive? [Re: ZraHamilton] #4656527
02/05/18 01:20 AM
02/05/18 01:20 AM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 106
Tennessee, United States
ZraHamilton Offline OP
ZraHamilton  Offline OP
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 106
Tennessee, United States
And isn't microglass just another way to say fiberglass spun into filter media?

Re: Fram Ultra flow restrictive? [Re: ZraHamilton] #4656530
02/05/18 01:28 AM
02/05/18 01:28 AM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 19,260
PNW
ZeeOSix Offline
ZeeOSix  Offline
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 19,260
PNW
Does your car's oil pump put out over 15 GPM? If not, don't worry about it.

Re: Fram Ultra flow restrictive? [Re: 901Memphis] #4656565
02/05/18 05:26 AM
02/05/18 05:26 AM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 20,562
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Trav Offline
Trav  Offline
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 20,562
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
No, the media is microglass, so the flow is higher AND more efficient than cellulose. The fram rep has posted flow charts before for specific part numbers and they are pretty much good enough to use for race applications.


Yet a filter made specifically for racing uses a Synthetic-Polymer/Cellulose-Fiber blend media.

https://performanceparts.ford.com/part/CM-6731-FL1A


popcorn


ASE L1, Master. Deutsch Meisterbrief.
Re: Fram Ultra flow restrictive? [Re: ZraHamilton] #4656573
02/05/18 05:56 AM
02/05/18 05:56 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 21,917
Orlando, FL
Mr Nice Offline
Mr Nice  Offline
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 21,917
Orlando, FL
No worries about oil flow.

Of course engineers at Fram tested before manufacturing millions of Fram Ultra filters.

Re: Fram Ultra flow restrictive? [Re: ZraHamilton] #4656574
02/05/18 05:57 AM
02/05/18 05:57 AM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 7,614
Indianapolis, IN
dnewton3 Offline
dnewton3  Offline
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 7,614
Indianapolis, IN
Originally Posted By: ZraHamilton
I am wondering if the extreme efficiency of the fram ultra (99% @ 20, 94% @ 10, and I even heard someone say 80% @ 5 microns) would create a large pressure differential and cause it to bypass often. The bypass valve is extremely flimsy and easy to push because of the weak spring and plastic valve. This seems like the biggest weakness of the ultra. If it bypasses often, that 99%+ becomes 0% lol.

Also, wouldn't the Wix XP have the lowest pressure differential of nearly any filter? (with fiberglass media and 50% @ 20 micron efficiency). If so, you get the filtering efficiency of many OEM filters, but with excellent flow, and the toughest construction.



1) oil filters RARELY go into bypass; read Jim Allen's trials please
2) oil filters flow well more than the oil pumps put out; show me any data to prove otherwise
3) the Wix/NG and Wix XP are rated at same flow volumes for equivalent applications; go check their website
4) what makes you think the BP valve is "extremely flimsy and easy to push because of the weak spring and plastic valve" (As opposed to the bazillions of others just like it in other brands?) What makes the plastic "flimsy" and the spring "weak"?


This thread is just a new version of the old (unfounded) complaint regarding the PureOne filters being "too restrictive"; a totally uneducated view that if it's efficient, it must also be too restrictive because one's brain cannot conceive that the product can be both efficient and flow well

Where do some of you get these ridiculous ideas, anyway? crzy


Last edited by dnewton3; 02/05/18 06:00 AM.

The act of preventative maintenance, in and of itself, is FAR MORE important than brand/grade/base choices among lubes and filters.
- under maintaining something is akin to abuse/neglect; that can kill equipment by shortening the lifespan
- over maintaining something has never been proven to be anything but a waste of time and money
Re: Fram Ultra flow restrictive? [Re: dnewton3] #4656589
02/05/18 06:39 AM
02/05/18 06:39 AM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 9,816
Kendall, FL
wemay Offline
wemay  Offline
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 9,816
Kendall, FL
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
.......one's brain cannot conceive that the product can be both efficient and flow well

Where do some of you get these ridiculous ideas, anyway? crzy



In a nutshell, what's been said about K&N air filters for years.


18 Sportage LX: M1AP 5W-20 + M1-104A
13 SFS 2.0T: PP 10W-30 + XG9688
Re: Fram Ultra flow restrictive? [Re: wemay] #4656590
02/05/18 06:41 AM
02/05/18 06:41 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 30,959
NY
demarpaint Offline
demarpaint  Offline
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 30,959
NY
Originally Posted By: wemay
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
.......one's brain cannot conceive that the product can be both efficient and flow well

Where do some of you get these ridiculous ideas, anyway? crzy



In a nutshell, what's been said about K&N air filters for years.


Only UOA data posted here typically shows increased wear metals using K&N air filters.


God Bless Our Troops

Re: Fram Ultra flow restrictive? [Re: dnewton3] #4656591
02/05/18 06:43 AM
02/05/18 06:43 AM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 3,566
MN
oil_film_movies Offline
oil_film_movies  Offline
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 3,566
MN
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
Where do some of you get these ridiculous ideas, anyway? crzy
Its OK to question if something with great efficiency has too high of a flow resistance. Thats not a stupid question.
Intuitively, you might think a filter is more restrictive the smaller the flow path porosity is.
Flow any liquid into a smaller pipe and you'll see the pressure drop go up, of course.

In this case, the Fram Ultra isn't too restrictive at all. It can hold more dirt than most other filters.
The physical reality of smaller, more consistently sized synthetic fibers is what makes the Ultra work.

Re: Fram Ultra flow restrictive? [Re: ZraHamilton] #4656600
02/05/18 06:58 AM
02/05/18 06:58 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,149
Coastal South Carolina
edwardh1 Offline
edwardh1  Offline
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,149
Coastal South Carolina
maybe k and k just does not filter much


These products are all new every year?? They are a revolution!!! Razor blades, mens shirts, TVs, wiper blades, gutter guards, hearing aids... according to the ads. But also all new last year
Re: Fram Ultra flow restrictive? [Re: oil_film_movies] #4656606
02/05/18 07:06 AM
02/05/18 07:06 AM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,854
SD
zrxkawboy Offline
zrxkawboy  Offline
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,854
SD
Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
Where do some of you get these ridiculous ideas, anyway? crzy
Its OK to question if something with great efficiency has too high of a flow resistance. Thats not a stupid question.


Nah, we allow questions here. We just jump all over a newcomer who asks questions, as opposed to politely answering them like you just did. What were you thinking??


"Think of all the Ford owners who will someday want an automobile." John Dodge

Re: Fram Ultra flow restrictive? [Re: ZraHamilton] #4656608
02/05/18 07:06 AM
02/05/18 07:06 AM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 3,566
MN
oil_film_movies Offline
oil_film_movies  Offline
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 3,566
MN
Originally Posted By: ZraHamilton
Also, wouldn't the Wix XP have the lowest pressure differential of nearly any filter? (with fiberglass media and 50% @ 20 micron efficiency). If so, you get the filtering efficiency of many OEM filters, but with excellent flow, and the toughest construction.

That is possible. No evidence it flows more.
Actually, pressure drop is rarely a problem with properly engineered oil filters anyway.
Any difference between brands would be small. Oil pumps are positive displacement, meaning they would consume a little more power in a more restrictive flow path, yet still deliver about the same mass flow rate anyway.


This could be important in a racing application where you don't want parasitic power losses in the oil pump at high RPMs when it counts. Data would be needed on oil filter restriction in that case.

Re: Fram Ultra flow restrictive? [Re: ZraHamilton] #4656611
02/05/18 07:11 AM
02/05/18 07:11 AM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 995
Rockwall, Texas
Old Mustang Guy Offline
Old Mustang Guy  Offline
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 995
Rockwall, Texas
I think it is a concern. That's one reason I like OE.

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