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Proof a mass car maker cannot poof and be created #4655533
02/04/18 08:32 AM
02/04/18 08:32 AM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,334
New England
madRiver Offline OP
madRiver  Offline OP

Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,334
New England
1990ís Kia like build- Tesla 3


Re: Proof a mass car maker cannot poof and be created [Re: madRiver] #4655540
02/04/18 08:46 AM
02/04/18 08:46 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,357
Central Florida
Mr Nice Offline
Mr Nice  Offline

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,357
Central Florida
Not surprised at the poor build quality.

Re: Proof a mass car maker cannot poof and be created [Re: madRiver] #4655575
02/04/18 09:08 AM
02/04/18 09:08 AM
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,797
Jacksonville, FL
FlyNavyP3 Offline
FlyNavyP3  Offline

Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,797
Jacksonville, FL
The gentleman leading the walk around certainly has no love for the Tesla S. Not sure if his lack of enthusiasm is because he harbors some sort of resent for the brand or if it's because it's really that bad. He certainly highlights some glaring issues, but things like suggesting that back seat passengers would fold down the back seat and exit through the trunk versus just climbing into the front seat and exiting out the front door is a stretch for me and lends credibility to him just being in the Tesla hater camp.

I'm not a fan of the cars in general, to me they're the epitome of everything I hate in new cars. I want a car with less features less electronics more manual functions thats easy to repair and troubleshoot by the average handyman. I guess I'll just have to keep driving old cars and only keep anything new for the duration of the warranty, which as it turns out is what the manufacturer wants anyway.


Luke
P-3C and P-8A Maritime Weapons and Tactics Instructor, Instructor Tactical Coordinator and Mission Commander
Re: Proof a mass car maker cannot poof and be created [Re: madRiver] #4655582
02/04/18 09:13 AM
02/04/18 09:13 AM
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 159
NY
Kage860 Offline
Kage860  Offline

Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 159
NY
Technology is great but I see this as evidence that tech jobs will not replace mechanical / maintenance jobs anytime soon.


2007 Jeep Liberty PP 0w-20 / Carquest Blue, 6k oci
2015 Nissan Rogue PP 0w-20 / Pronto, 5k oci
2019 Audi Q7 - Castrol 5w-40 / OEM Filter
Re: Proof a mass car maker cannot poof and be created [Re: madRiver] #4655613
02/04/18 09:48 AM
02/04/18 09:48 AM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 7,244
Mahzurrah!
KCJeep Offline
KCJeep  Offline

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 7,244
Mahzurrah!
Interesting. Cars are so complex I am amazed anyone can build one that works properly on all fronts for more than a day or so... yet most will run countless thousands of miles between any issues. Funny they mentioned KIA, 20 years later they are building cars superior to some Japanese makes. But KIA's were always cheap, how is Tesla supposed to get away with that garbage selling expensive stuff?

An executive here at work bought a Tesla had it about 3 months traded it on a Benz it musta really sucked.

As for fire department concerns, those guys will look at it maybe five seconds and then dive in with power equipment they could care less.


2018 VW Passat GT VR6 - 6k - Valvoline MST 5w40 - VW OEM filter
2012 KIA Sedona 96k - PP HM 10w30
2009 Ford Focus 135k - Supertech FS HM 5w30
2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee, gone but not forgotten.
Re: Proof a mass car maker cannot poof and be created [Re: madRiver] #4655622
02/04/18 10:03 AM
02/04/18 10:03 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,491
Illinois
mrsilv04 Offline
mrsilv04  Offline

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,491
Illinois
No one with a fire department is going to hook up jumper cables to get the hood open. It will forcibly pried open with a crow bar, a pry bar, whatever.


2004 Silverado - on its 3rd Jasper engine in less than one year.
Re: Proof a mass car maker cannot poof and be created [Re: FlyNavyP3] #4655639
02/04/18 10:17 AM
02/04/18 10:17 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,185
Coastal South Carolina
edwardh1 Offline
edwardh1  Offline

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,185
Coastal South Carolina
Originally Posted By: FlyNavyP3
The gentleman leading the walk around certainly has no love for the Tesla S. Not sure if his lack of enthusiasm is because he harbors some sort of resent for the brand or if it's because it's really that bad. He certainly highlights some glaring issues, but things like suggesting that back seat passengers would fold down the back seat and exit through the trunk versus just climbing into the front seat and exiting out the front door is a stretch for me and lends credibility to him just being in the Tesla hater camp.

I'm not a fan of the cars in general, to me they're the epitome of everything I hate in new cars. I want a car with less features less electronics more manual functions thats easy to repair and troubleshoot by the average handyman. I guess I'll just have to keep driving old cars and only keep anything new for the duration of the warranty, which as it turns out is what the manufacturer wants anyway.



agree, electrical and puter nerds allways want a complicated way. as do the Germans, in my opinion.

Last edited by edwardh1; 02/04/18 10:26 AM.

These products are all new every year?? They are a revolution!!! Razor blades, mens shirts, TVs, wiper blades, gutter guards, hearing aids... according to the ads. But also all new last year
Re: Proof a mass car maker cannot poof and be created [Re: edwardh1] #4655654
02/04/18 10:37 AM
02/04/18 10:37 AM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 6,229
Champlain/Hudson Valley
Kira Offline
Kira  Offline

Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 6,229
Champlain/Hudson Valley
In this very vein......Who in Carland decided that automating a car's AC was a bright idea?

They added flimsy controls to the blend doors, a complex, "computerized" layer to the entire thing and a fragile sensor to detect temperature.

So unnecessary AND EXPENSIVE it all is.

Re: Proof a mass car maker cannot poof and be created [Re: Kira] #4655666
02/04/18 10:46 AM
02/04/18 10:46 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 42,625
New Jersey
JHZR2 Offline
Global Moderator
JHZR2  Offline
Global Moderator

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 42,625
New Jersey
Originally Posted By: Kira
In this very vein......Who in Carland decided that automating a car's AC was a bright idea?

They added flimsy controls to the blend doors, a complex, "computerized" layer to the entire thing and a fragile sensor to detect temperature.

So unnecessary AND EXPENSIVE it all is.


How do you know it's different than any other automatic dual zone AC system?

Heck, my 82 Mercedes diesel has sensors for AC temp.

Re: Proof a mass car maker cannot poof and be created [Re: madRiver] #4655667
02/04/18 10:47 AM
02/04/18 10:47 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 8,009
Marshfield , MA
andyd Offline
andyd  Offline

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 8,009
Marshfield , MA
If I needed to free the occupants of that car , I would pop the rear window. Once people are out, contain, the fire. As sculpture the Tesla is a pretty car. I'm not surprised, its functionality has been compromised as result. My appliance Camry is a marvel of simplicity with its cable operated hood and trunk releases. The Tesla is more of a fashion statement than an automobile.


'16 Camry LE STP synth 0w20 and STP filter. the Fridge

1994 Ranger ,the Rat, 5w30 dino, STP filter

'16 Camry SE, Valvoline HM 0w20 and OEM filter
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Re: Proof a mass car maker cannot poof and be created [Re: FlyNavyP3] #4655669
02/04/18 10:50 AM
02/04/18 10:50 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 42,625
New Jersey
JHZR2 Offline
Global Moderator
JHZR2  Offline
Global Moderator

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 42,625
New Jersey
Originally Posted By: FlyNavyP3
The gentleman leading the walk around certainly has no love for the Tesla S. Not sure if his lack of enthusiasm is because he harbors some sort of resent for the brand or if it's because it's really that bad. He certainly highlights some glaring issues, but things like suggesting that back seat passengers would fold down the back seat and exit through the trunk versus just climbing into the front seat and exiting out the front door is a stretch for me and lends credibility to him just being in the Tesla hater camp.

I'm not a fan of the cars in general, to me they're the epitome of everything I hate in new cars. I want a car with less features less electronics more manual functions thats easy to repair and troubleshoot by the average handyman. I guess I'll just have to keep driving old cars and only keep anything new for the duration of the warranty, which as it turns out is what the manufacturer wants anyway.



I'm neither a friend or foe of tesla. I couldn't really care less about their prospect or success. I'm a believer in hybrid/PHEVs, but liquid fuels will remain the energy density champ for a long while more.

The video was interesting, but you could tell there was no love. Some of those design elements are excessive superfluous items that are bound to fail. But they're just stupid unnecessary stuff. Gaps in panels, excessive electrification of stuff that should have a mechanical backup, that trunk design and hinges(?!?). No thanks.

The real/big tesla is an interesting car, but not of interest to me.

The most interesting advanced tech out there IMO is the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV.

Originally Posted By: andyd
My appliance Camry is a marvel of simplicity with its cable operated hood and trunk releases.


Ive never understood why some elements that can be so simple, need to be made so complex.

I almost kind of get the e-parking brake (though hate them because of how slow they are), but most of this stuff is crazy.


Re: Proof a mass car maker cannot poof and be created [Re: madRiver] #4655693
02/04/18 11:11 AM
02/04/18 11:11 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 16,473
OH
fdcg27 Offline
fdcg27  Offline

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 16,473
OH
I've posted before that the primary cause of Tesla's inability to attain quality builds at commercially viable volumes is their lack of experienced industry engineers.
Poach a dozen guys with names unknown outside the industry from one established manufacturer and let them deal with the suppliers as well as the design of the assembly process. Let them also determine what cool-factor features should be eliminated.
This would go a long way toward fixing the various failings in these interesting and promising cars and should also quickly resolve the production difficulties hindering the Model 3.
Not that hard to build cars in volume at consistent quality levels. It's no more nor less than a design and process solution.
It's done every day elsewhere and it might be wise for Tesla to grab some talent seasoned at the expense of another company.
I've used the singular twice simply because if you poach from only one company, you then end up with consistency in the approach taken. This will cost some coin, since that's going to be a major part of stealing engineers from others, but it would still be cheaper than fumbling your way through.
This would also allow Tesla to develop its own cadre of effective design and production engineers for future models.


18 Accord Hybrid FF
17 Forester 18K VME 0W-20
12 Accord LX 96K SSO 0W-20
09 Forester 95K M1HM 10W-30
01 Focus ZX3 118K PP 5W-20
96 Accord LX 104K T5 10W-30
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Re: Proof a mass car maker cannot poof and be created [Re: madRiver] #4655699
02/04/18 11:19 AM
02/04/18 11:19 AM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 279
KS
red7404 Offline
red7404  Offline

Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 279
KS
the issues here are cause the builder is NOT a car guy. if you insist on being different at least you should be better. why am i NOT surprised?

Re: Proof a mass car maker cannot poof and be created [Re: madRiver] #4655742
02/04/18 11:51 AM
02/04/18 11:51 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,365
Canuck living in California
KrisZ Online content
KrisZ  Online Content

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,365
Canuck living in California
A lot of the design decisions come from the tech mentality. If it works in a smartphone, it will work in an automobile. Unfortunately, technology doesn't always transition well to other platforms.


2015 Grand Caravan 3.6L - 31k miles.
2006 Mazda 3 2.0L - 171k miles
Re: Proof a mass car maker cannot poof and be created [Re: edwardh1] #4655768
02/04/18 12:10 PM
02/04/18 12:10 PM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 3,087
Central Maryland
HangFire Online content
HangFire  Online Content

Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 3,087
Central Maryland
Originally Posted By: edwardh1
agree, electrical and puter nerds allways want a complicated way. as do the Germans, in my opinion.


German auto companies, yes. Plenty of evidence for that.

Electronic and Computer nerds, no. Over-engineering is the result of enthusiasm and inexperience, that is to say, young engineers, not experienced ones.


Various musings: http://hangfire.net
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