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#4655533 - 02/04/18 07:32 AM Proof a mass car maker cannot poof and be created
madRiver Offline


Registered: 07/11/15
Posts: 3537
Loc: New England
1990ís Kia like build- Tesla 3


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#4655540 - 02/04/18 07:46 AM Re: Proof a mass car maker cannot poof and be created [Re: madRiver]
Mr Nice Offline


Registered: 09/12/04
Posts: 21192
Loc: Orlando, FL
Not surprised at the poor build quality.

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#4655575 - 02/04/18 08:08 AM Re: Proof a mass car maker cannot poof and be created [Re: madRiver]
FlyNavyP3 Offline


Registered: 07/04/16
Posts: 1407
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
The gentleman leading the walk around certainly has no love for the Tesla S. Not sure if his lack of enthusiasm is because he harbors some sort of resent for the brand or if it's because it's really that bad. He certainly highlights some glaring issues, but things like suggesting that back seat passengers would fold down the back seat and exit through the trunk versus just climbing into the front seat and exiting out the front door is a stretch for me and lends credibility to him just being in the Tesla hater camp.

I'm not a fan of the cars in general, to me they're the epitome of everything I hate in new cars. I want a car with less features less electronics more manual functions thats easy to repair and troubleshoot by the average handyman. I guess I'll just have to keep driving old cars and only keep anything new for the duration of the warranty, which as it turns out is what the manufacturer wants anyway.
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#4655582 - 02/04/18 08:13 AM Re: Proof a mass car maker cannot poof and be created [Re: madRiver]
Kage860 Offline


Registered: 04/17/17
Posts: 88
Loc: NY
Technology is great but I see this as evidence that tech jobs will not replace mechanical / maintenance jobs anytime soon.
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#4655613 - 02/04/18 08:48 AM Re: Proof a mass car maker cannot poof and be created [Re: madRiver]
KCJeep Offline


Registered: 06/30/11
Posts: 6998
Loc: Mahzurrah!
Interesting. Cars are so complex I am amazed anyone can build one that works properly on all fronts for more than a day or so... yet most will run countless thousands of miles between any issues. Funny they mentioned KIA, 20 years later they are building cars superior to some Japanese makes. But KIA's were always cheap, how is Tesla supposed to get away with that garbage selling expensive stuff?

An executive here at work bought a Tesla had it about 3 months traded it on a Benz it musta really sucked.

As for fire department concerns, those guys will look at it maybe five seconds and then dive in with power equipment they could care less.
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#4655622 - 02/04/18 09:03 AM Re: Proof a mass car maker cannot poof and be created [Re: madRiver]
mrsilv04 Offline


Registered: 12/08/06
Posts: 8269
Loc: Illinois
No one with a fire department is going to hook up jumper cables to get the hood open. It will forcibly pried open with a crow bar, a pry bar, whatever.
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#4655639 - 02/04/18 09:17 AM Re: Proof a mass car maker cannot poof and be created [Re: FlyNavyP3]
edwardh1 Offline


Registered: 01/17/03
Posts: 2942
Loc: Coastal South Carolina
Originally Posted By: FlyNavyP3
The gentleman leading the walk around certainly has no love for the Tesla S. Not sure if his lack of enthusiasm is because he harbors some sort of resent for the brand or if it's because it's really that bad. He certainly highlights some glaring issues, but things like suggesting that back seat passengers would fold down the back seat and exit through the trunk versus just climbing into the front seat and exiting out the front door is a stretch for me and lends credibility to him just being in the Tesla hater camp.

I'm not a fan of the cars in general, to me they're the epitome of everything I hate in new cars. I want a car with less features less electronics more manual functions thats easy to repair and troubleshoot by the average handyman. I guess I'll just have to keep driving old cars and only keep anything new for the duration of the warranty, which as it turns out is what the manufacturer wants anyway.



agree, electrical and puter nerds allways want a complicated way. as do the Germans, in my opinion.


Edited by edwardh1 (02/04/18 09:26 AM)
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These products are all new every year?? They are a revolution!!! Razor blades, mens shirts, TVs, wiper blades, gutter guards, hearing aids... according to the ads. But also all new last year

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#4655654 - 02/04/18 09:37 AM Re: Proof a mass car maker cannot poof and be created [Re: edwardh1]
Kira Offline


Registered: 08/19/10
Posts: 5230
Loc: Champlain/Hudson Valley
In this very vein......Who in Carland decided that automating a car's AC was a bright idea?

They added flimsy controls to the blend doors, a complex, "computerized" layer to the entire thing and a fragile sensor to detect temperature.

So unnecessary AND EXPENSIVE it all is.

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#4655666 - 02/04/18 09:46 AM Re: Proof a mass car maker cannot poof and be created [Re: Kira]
JHZR2 Offline



Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 41779
Loc: New Jersey
Originally Posted By: Kira
In this very vein......Who in Carland decided that automating a car's AC was a bright idea?

They added flimsy controls to the blend doors, a complex, "computerized" layer to the entire thing and a fragile sensor to detect temperature.

So unnecessary AND EXPENSIVE it all is.


How do you know it's different than any other automatic dual zone AC system?

Heck, my 82 Mercedes diesel has sensors for AC temp.

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#4655667 - 02/04/18 09:47 AM Re: Proof a mass car maker cannot poof and be created [Re: madRiver]
andyd Offline


Registered: 09/25/04
Posts: 7145
Loc: Marshfield , MA
If I needed to free the occupants of that car , I would pop the rear window. Once people are out, contain, the fire. As sculpture the Tesla is a pretty car. I'm not surprised, its functionality has been compromised as result. My appliance Camry is a marvel of simplicity with its cable operated hood and trunk releases. The Tesla is more of a fashion statement than an automobile.
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#4655669 - 02/04/18 09:50 AM Re: Proof a mass car maker cannot poof and be created [Re: FlyNavyP3]
JHZR2 Offline



Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 41779
Loc: New Jersey
Originally Posted By: FlyNavyP3
The gentleman leading the walk around certainly has no love for the Tesla S. Not sure if his lack of enthusiasm is because he harbors some sort of resent for the brand or if it's because it's really that bad. He certainly highlights some glaring issues, but things like suggesting that back seat passengers would fold down the back seat and exit through the trunk versus just climbing into the front seat and exiting out the front door is a stretch for me and lends credibility to him just being in the Tesla hater camp.

I'm not a fan of the cars in general, to me they're the epitome of everything I hate in new cars. I want a car with less features less electronics more manual functions thats easy to repair and troubleshoot by the average handyman. I guess I'll just have to keep driving old cars and only keep anything new for the duration of the warranty, which as it turns out is what the manufacturer wants anyway.



I'm neither a friend or foe of tesla. I couldn't really care less about their prospect or success. I'm a believer in hybrid/PHEVs, but liquid fuels will remain the energy density champ for a long while more.

The video was interesting, but you could tell there was no love. Some of those design elements are excessive superfluous items that are bound to fail. But they're just stupid unnecessary stuff. Gaps in panels, excessive electrification of stuff that should have a mechanical backup, that trunk design and hinges(?!?). No thanks.

The real/big tesla is an interesting car, but not of interest to me.

The most interesting advanced tech out there IMO is the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV.

Originally Posted By: andyd
My appliance Camry is a marvel of simplicity with its cable operated hood and trunk releases.


Ive never understood why some elements that can be so simple, need to be made so complex.

I almost kind of get the e-parking brake (though hate them because of how slow they are), but most of this stuff is crazy.


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#4655693 - 02/04/18 10:11 AM Re: Proof a mass car maker cannot poof and be created [Re: madRiver]
fdcg27 Offline


Registered: 09/25/09
Posts: 15696
Loc: OH
I've posted before that the primary cause of Tesla's inability to attain quality builds at commercially viable volumes is their lack of experienced industry engineers.
Poach a dozen guys with names unknown outside the industry from one established manufacturer and let them deal with the suppliers as well as the design of the assembly process. Let them also determine what cool-factor features should be eliminated.
This would go a long way toward fixing the various failings in these interesting and promising cars and should also quickly resolve the production difficulties hindering the Model 3.
Not that hard to build cars in volume at consistent quality levels. It's no more nor less than a design and process solution.
It's done every day elsewhere and it might be wise for Tesla to grab some talent seasoned at the expense of another company.
I've used the singular twice simply because if you poach from only one company, you then end up with consistency in the approach taken. This will cost some coin, since that's going to be a major part of stealing engineers from others, but it would still be cheaper than fumbling your way through.
This would also allow Tesla to develop its own cadre of effective design and production engineers for future models.
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#4655699 - 02/04/18 10:19 AM Re: Proof a mass car maker cannot poof and be created [Re: madRiver]
red7404 Offline


Registered: 01/24/18
Posts: 176
Loc: KS
the issues here are cause the builder is NOT a car guy. if you insist on being different at least you should be better. why am i NOT surprised?

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#4655742 - 02/04/18 10:51 AM Re: Proof a mass car maker cannot poof and be created [Re: madRiver]
KrisZ Offline


Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 7467
Loc: Toronto, Canada
A lot of the design decisions come from the tech mentality. If it works in a smartphone, it will work in an automobile. Unfortunately, technology doesn't always transition well to other platforms.
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2015 Dodge Grand Caravan-21k miles.
2006 Mazda 3-155k miles

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#4655768 - 02/04/18 11:10 AM Re: Proof a mass car maker cannot poof and be created [Re: edwardh1]
HangFire Offline


Registered: 08/21/13
Posts: 2506
Loc: Central Maryland
Originally Posted By: edwardh1
agree, electrical and puter nerds allways want a complicated way. as do the Germans, in my opinion.


German auto companies, yes. Plenty of evidence for that.

Electronic and Computer nerds, no. Over-engineering is the result of enthusiasm and inexperience, that is to say, young engineers, not experienced ones.
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