Yes. I had a small engine once sit for 20 years with the same sump fill. It was nowhere near like that. The "Castrol orange," I get, but the rest is another matter.
About oil change once a year
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I haven't changed the oil in the Capri since August 2015, until August 206 i added several liters of oil however because it burned through quite a bit.
But since August 2016 i haven't had to add almost any oil whatsoever because i changed the valve stem oil seals.
This is on 20W-50 Dino oils...
And it hans't blown up! ( yet )
But since August 2016 i haven't had to add almost any oil whatsoever because i changed the valve stem oil seals.
This is on 20W-50 Dino oils...
And it hans't blown up! ( yet )
Originally Posted By: Vlad_the_Russian
So this is a bit extreme, but... here is what happens to oil when it sits in the engine for too long, regardless of miles. Steady diet of Castrol Edge, but for 5+ years engine was just sitting. Engine is in good condition, for a 1990s BMW at least. But oil pan and oil filter cup are filled with this gunk because the oil was just sitting there, and over time oil lost its properties. None of this is present anywhere else, but the pan and oil filter cup.
Pretty sure there's more going on here than just old oil sitting in a sump comrade Vladimir...
So this is a bit extreme, but... here is what happens to oil when it sits in the engine for too long, regardless of miles. Steady diet of Castrol Edge, but for 5+ years engine was just sitting. Engine is in good condition, for a 1990s BMW at least. But oil pan and oil filter cup are filled with this gunk because the oil was just sitting there, and over time oil lost its properties. None of this is present anywhere else, but the pan and oil filter cup.
Pretty sure there's more going on here than just old oil sitting in a sump comrade Vladimir...
Just to add to the anecdotal "evidence"
I've had this stuff in the car (mixed with Delvac MX 15W/40) since mid 2013 on low miles. China Petroleum Corporation Heavy Duty Extra Special SJ/CD Motor Oil, SAE40, "manufactured from refined paraffin base oils", base number 5.79 (pretty low, the MX is 10).
https://new.cpc.com.tw/division/lb/information-text.aspx?id=6
Spec sheet, such as it is, doesn't suggest its anything fancy and it may be Group 1 base. Last time I looked it seemed fine.
I've had this stuff in the car (mixed with Delvac MX 15W/40) since mid 2013 on low miles. China Petroleum Corporation Heavy Duty Extra Special SJ/CD Motor Oil, SAE40, "manufactured from refined paraffin base oils", base number 5.79 (pretty low, the MX is 10).
https://new.cpc.com.tw/division/lb/information-text.aspx?id=6
Spec sheet, such as it is, doesn't suggest its anything fancy and it may be Group 1 base. Last time I looked it seemed fine.
Both of my vehicles are severe short trippers. I change the Pennzoil Platinum every 6 months and sleep well.
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Originally Posted By: Slick17601
Both of my vehicles are severe short trippers. I change the Pennzoil Platinum every 6 months and sleep well.
I change my BBC Suburban oil every 5 years and I sleep well too. My 99 Aurora is going on 8 years w/o a change although I plan to drive it more this summer. I'll likely change the Aurora oil in 2019, but it would be sweet to stretch it to 10 years (2020) and then do the UOA. Whenever it hits 5k miles, it's coming out - only about 1500 miles so far. Both cars use Mobil 1 and are fine.
Both of my vehicles are severe short trippers. I change the Pennzoil Platinum every 6 months and sleep well.
I change my BBC Suburban oil every 5 years and I sleep well too. My 99 Aurora is going on 8 years w/o a change although I plan to drive it more this summer. I'll likely change the Aurora oil in 2019, but it would be sweet to stretch it to 10 years (2020) and then do the UOA. Whenever it hits 5k miles, it's coming out - only about 1500 miles so far. Both cars use Mobil 1 and are fine.
Originally Posted By: Vlad_the_Russian
So this is a bit extreme, but... here is what happens to oil when it sits in the engine for too long, regardless of miles. Steady diet of Castrol Edge, but for 5+ years engine was just sitting. Engine is in good condition, for a 1990s BMW at least. But oil pan and oil filter cup are filled with this gunk because the oil was just sitting there, and over time oil lost its properties.
I think that car has had some serious short tripping done.
Only condensation present in the oil will cause that. Period.
I'm not buying the whole "this happened just sitting there!!!' bit AT ALL -
I have a 1943 Farmall H that has had the same oil in it for 20 years now, and it hasn't done this. The only difference is, when it does get started it gets worked hard for 2-3 hours then sits until next year. The oil still looks good.
So this is a bit extreme, but... here is what happens to oil when it sits in the engine for too long, regardless of miles. Steady diet of Castrol Edge, but for 5+ years engine was just sitting. Engine is in good condition, for a 1990s BMW at least. But oil pan and oil filter cup are filled with this gunk because the oil was just sitting there, and over time oil lost its properties.
I think that car has had some serious short tripping done.
Only condensation present in the oil will cause that. Period.
I'm not buying the whole "this happened just sitting there!!!' bit AT ALL -
I have a 1943 Farmall H that has had the same oil in it for 20 years now, and it hasn't done this. The only difference is, when it does get started it gets worked hard for 2-3 hours then sits until next year. The oil still looks good.
My TL gets a 1 year OCI as it turns into a hangar queen between Dec to March, or a touch later.. or once most of the road salt has been washed away. That = approx 10k Km on an OCI, oil drops in the spring, mostly 70/30 hwy/city [which also includes 1 x3lt ATF.]
The MDX get 2 OCI.. spring and fall > warm season OCI usually goes 10K as well, same 70/30 hway/city
winter season typically is 20/80 hway/ city.. so a LOT tougher on oil, and ATF as well.
>>if youve noticed ..i dont give a shat what the OLM says.. although i do pay attention to it.. it usually tells me ~40% remaining.. but i do severe driving regiment.. i dont hesitate to drop an OCI
The MDX get 2 OCI.. spring and fall > warm season OCI usually goes 10K as well, same 70/30 hway/city
winter season typically is 20/80 hway/ city.. so a LOT tougher on oil, and ATF as well.
>>if youve noticed ..i dont give a shat what the OLM says.. although i do pay attention to it.. it usually tells me ~40% remaining.. but i do severe driving regiment.. i dont hesitate to drop an OCI
Originally Posted By: SilverSnake
Boomerang: I have posted this article before and it has been ridiculed by many on this forum as oil industry garbage and part of the big conspiracy to get us all to change our oil more frequently than necessary. I do not agree and find the article to be an excellent summary of the issues involved. I am posting the entire article since I cannot find the link on the net anymore. I hope you find it useful.
Amsoil Article: Chemical Reactions Occur in Motor Oil, Even When Not In Use
By Dan Peterson, Vice President, Technical Development, Amsoil, May 2012
http://www.1st-in-synthetics.com/Tech/Chemical_Reactions_Occur_In_Motor_Oil_Even_When_Not_In_Use.htm
Well you must understand that anything Amsoil related is quickly put into the misinformation or plain out lies file. Just bear it and move forward.
Boomerang: I have posted this article before and it has been ridiculed by many on this forum as oil industry garbage and part of the big conspiracy to get us all to change our oil more frequently than necessary. I do not agree and find the article to be an excellent summary of the issues involved. I am posting the entire article since I cannot find the link on the net anymore. I hope you find it useful.
Amsoil Article: Chemical Reactions Occur in Motor Oil, Even When Not In Use
By Dan Peterson, Vice President, Technical Development, Amsoil, May 2012
http://www.1st-in-synthetics.com/Tech/Chemical_Reactions_Occur_In_Motor_Oil_Even_When_Not_In_Use.htm
Well you must understand that anything Amsoil related is quickly put into the misinformation or plain out lies file. Just bear it and move forward.
Originally Posted By: JC1
Why not try running the oil in the Odyssey for 7500 miles and then get a UOA to see how it holds up? Does the Odyssey have the VCM?
Good plan, or run a lesser oil and change on OEM recommended oci's or by OLM.
Why not try running the oil in the Odyssey for 7500 miles and then get a UOA to see how it holds up? Does the Odyssey have the VCM?
Good plan, or run a lesser oil and change on OEM recommended oci's or by OLM.
Originally Posted By: Linctex
Originally Posted By: Vlad_the_Russian
So this is a bit extreme, but... here is what happens to oil when it sits in the engine for too long, regardless of miles. Steady diet of Castrol Edge, but for 5+ years engine was just sitting. Engine is in good condition, for a 1990s BMW at least. But oil pan and oil filter cup are filled with this gunk because the oil was just sitting there, and over time oil lost its properties.
I think that car has had some serious short tripping done.
Only condensation present in the oil will cause that. Period.
Such certainty? I'd say this is unknowable, but, as I originally suggested, glycol contamination from a coolant leak might also do it, and in this case seems more likely.
Originally Posted By: Vlad_the_Russian
So this is a bit extreme, but... here is what happens to oil when it sits in the engine for too long, regardless of miles. Steady diet of Castrol Edge, but for 5+ years engine was just sitting. Engine is in good condition, for a 1990s BMW at least. But oil pan and oil filter cup are filled with this gunk because the oil was just sitting there, and over time oil lost its properties.
I think that car has had some serious short tripping done.
Only condensation present in the oil will cause that. Period.
Such certainty? I'd say this is unknowable, but, as I originally suggested, glycol contamination from a coolant leak might also do it, and in this case seems more likely.
Originally Posted By: 4ever4d
Originally Posted By: SilverSnake
Boomerang: I have posted this article before and it has been ridiculed by many on this forum as oil industry garbage and part of the big conspiracy to get us all to change our oil more frequently than necessary. I do not agree and find the article to be an excellent summary of the issues involved. I am posting the entire article since I cannot find the link on the net anymore. I hope you find it useful.
Amsoil Article: Chemical Reactions Occur in Motor Oil, Even When Not In Use
By Dan Peterson, Vice President, Technical Development, Amsoil, May 2012
http://www.1st-in-synthetics.com/Tech/Chemical_Reactions_Occur_In_Motor_Oil_Even_When_Not_In_Use.htm
Well you must understand that anything Amsoil related is quickly put into the misinformation or plain out lies file. Just bear it and move forward.
I didn't notice anything in that article that was demonstrably untrue (though the high proportion of engine failures attributed to glycol contamination was surprising and I'd have liked to see a source for it) but the overall effect is one of exaggeration.
Deterioration of oil does occur at ambient temperature in an unused engine but it is very very slow, and this is not acknowledged in the article.
Most of the problems discussed are actually attributable to sustained short-tripping rather than idleness.
In the abscence of short-tripping,or coolant leaks, the main potential damaging factor in an idle engine would be condensation. This could be minimised by venting after a run, or to be really thorough, fitting a dessicant breather, though hardly anyone does either and it doesn't seem to be generally necessary.
(I'm assuming there isn't some secret special fragility about Amsoil that only they know about)
Originally Posted By: SilverSnake
Boomerang: I have posted this article before and it has been ridiculed by many on this forum as oil industry garbage and part of the big conspiracy to get us all to change our oil more frequently than necessary. I do not agree and find the article to be an excellent summary of the issues involved. I am posting the entire article since I cannot find the link on the net anymore. I hope you find it useful.
Amsoil Article: Chemical Reactions Occur in Motor Oil, Even When Not In Use
By Dan Peterson, Vice President, Technical Development, Amsoil, May 2012
http://www.1st-in-synthetics.com/Tech/Chemical_Reactions_Occur_In_Motor_Oil_Even_When_Not_In_Use.htm
Well you must understand that anything Amsoil related is quickly put into the misinformation or plain out lies file. Just bear it and move forward.
I didn't notice anything in that article that was demonstrably untrue (though the high proportion of engine failures attributed to glycol contamination was surprising and I'd have liked to see a source for it) but the overall effect is one of exaggeration.
Deterioration of oil does occur at ambient temperature in an unused engine but it is very very slow, and this is not acknowledged in the article.
Most of the problems discussed are actually attributable to sustained short-tripping rather than idleness.
In the abscence of short-tripping,or coolant leaks, the main potential damaging factor in an idle engine would be condensation. This could be minimised by venting after a run, or to be really thorough, fitting a dessicant breather, though hardly anyone does either and it doesn't seem to be generally necessary.
(I'm assuming there isn't some secret special fragility about Amsoil that only they know about)
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(I'm assuming there isn't some secret special fragility about Amsoil that only they know about)
yes, makes you wonder.. I have some old-stock Amsoil XL, I am planning to use it in the TL for its yearly OCI.
The general consensus here on BITOG is that this oil is still very serviceable..
But why just 6 months..???? My OCI on this car, is on average 9 months +/-
Unless I get the hee-bee-geebies... its gonna go a full OCI
yes, makes you wonder.. I have some old-stock Amsoil XL, I am planning to use it in the TL for its yearly OCI.
The general consensus here on BITOG is that this oil is still very serviceable..
But why just 6 months..???? My OCI on this car, is on average 9 months +/-
Unless I get the hee-bee-geebies... its gonna go a full OCI
You've been here long enough, you know how it is.
If anything ever goes wrong, it's much easier to blame the oil than it is to look in the mirror at the person ultimately responsible for service intervals, or to blame the oil versus an ordinary but unfortunate mechanical failure such as coolant intrusion.
From the Amsoil Article linked above
"Glycol, a common component of antifreeze, is a particularly damaging contaminant and is estimated to account for 60 percent of all engine failures."
The logic seems questionable here. If the oil is glycol-contaminated, the chances are the engine (typically its head gasket) has already failed, but the glycol contamination is an effect, not the cause, of these failures.
A more accurate version might go something like "60 percent of all engine failures involve leakage of coolant into the oil."
"Glycol, a common component of antifreeze, is a particularly damaging contaminant and is estimated to account for 60 percent of all engine failures."
The logic seems questionable here. If the oil is glycol-contaminated, the chances are the engine (typically its head gasket) has already failed, but the glycol contamination is an effect, not the cause, of these failures.
A more accurate version might go something like "60 percent of all engine failures involve leakage of coolant into the oil."
Did anyone consider oxidation of oil after 1 year of being in an engine? How does oxidation come into play, and should it be considered when deciding to go 1 or more years with a fill?
One could always test, I suppose. I would gather, but that would be subject to testing, too, that putting away an engine with fresh oil, we might see slower oil degradation than if we put away an engine with a sump full of fuel diluted oil much further along in its service life.
Originally Posted By: Garak
One could always test, I suppose. I would gather, but that would be subject to testing, too, that putting away an engine with fresh oil, we might see slower oil degradation than if we put away an engine with a sump full of fuel diluted oil much further along in its service life.
My understanding is that, with "modern" oils, the snag is that many of the oxidation reactions are "cascade" self-sustaining ones, so theres a chain-reaction effect and the oil can "go critical" quite quickly when it goes, though it takes a long time to reach that point.
With older (Group 1?) base oils, the makeup is more complex and includes some natural anti-oxidants, so deterioration is more gradual and there may be more visual warning before it gets too horrible.
One could always test, I suppose. I would gather, but that would be subject to testing, too, that putting away an engine with fresh oil, we might see slower oil degradation than if we put away an engine with a sump full of fuel diluted oil much further along in its service life.
My understanding is that, with "modern" oils, the snag is that many of the oxidation reactions are "cascade" self-sustaining ones, so theres a chain-reaction effect and the oil can "go critical" quite quickly when it goes, though it takes a long time to reach that point.
With older (Group 1?) base oils, the makeup is more complex and includes some natural anti-oxidants, so deterioration is more gradual and there may be more visual warning before it gets too horrible.
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