one of the kids damaged a wheel on the Camry; I ordered a Toyota rim from DT; show up for the appt and they did not have the wheel. Grrrrr! instead they had a generic rim - and the hub hole is 1/2" larger than the hub. Does wheel stability, rigidity, and design require that the hole size match? I would think that it should....
does the wheel hub hole size matter?
- Thread starter tomcat27
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This topic is debated often. While I prefer the rim to have an OE fit, I do not believe a larger diameter hole hurts anything. When I got new rims for the Monte, they were universal fit, DT put a little plastic spacer between the hub and rim. It's not an exact fit, but it does bring it closer to OE.
Can have vibrations if the wheels are not hubcentric. Also greater risk of damaging wheel studs as now a larger portion of the shear load is being taken by the studs and not the hub.
http://driving.ca/auto-news/news/why-you-need-hub-centric-rims
http://driving.ca/auto-news/news/why-you-need-hub-centric-rims
Originally Posted By: tomcat27
one of the kids damaged a wheel on the Camry; I ordered a Toyota rim from DT; show up for the appt and they did not have the wheel. Grrrrr! instead they had a generic rim - and the hub hole is 1/2" larger than the hub. Does wheel stability, rigidity, and design require that the hole size match? I would think that it should....
Yes, it matters. There should be a ring (whether it's plastic or metal) to take up that gap, and prevent unsupported forces on the lug studs.
one of the kids damaged a wheel on the Camry; I ordered a Toyota rim from DT; show up for the appt and they did not have the wheel. Grrrrr! instead they had a generic rim - and the hub hole is 1/2" larger than the hub. Does wheel stability, rigidity, and design require that the hole size match? I would think that it should....
Yes, it matters. There should be a ring (whether it's plastic or metal) to take up that gap, and prevent unsupported forces on the lug studs.
Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
Originally Posted By: tomcat27
one of the kids damaged a wheel on the Camry; I ordered a Toyota rim from DT; show up for the appt and they did not have the wheel. Grrrrr! instead they had a generic rim - and the hub hole is 1/2" larger than the hub. Does wheel stability, rigidity, and design require that the hole size match? I would think that it should....
Yes, it matters. There should be a ring (whether it's plastic or metal) to take up that gap, and prevent unsupported forces on the lug studs.
+1
Originally Posted By: tomcat27
one of the kids damaged a wheel on the Camry; I ordered a Toyota rim from DT; show up for the appt and they did not have the wheel. Grrrrr! instead they had a generic rim - and the hub hole is 1/2" larger than the hub. Does wheel stability, rigidity, and design require that the hole size match? I would think that it should....
Yes, it matters. There should be a ring (whether it's plastic or metal) to take up that gap, and prevent unsupported forces on the lug studs.
+1
Originally Posted By: sasilverbullet
Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
Originally Posted By: tomcat27
one of the kids damaged a wheel on the Camry; I ordered a Toyota rim from DT; show up for the appt and they did not have the wheel. Grrrrr! instead they had a generic rim - and the hub hole is 1/2" larger than the hub. Does wheel stability, rigidity, and design require that the hole size match? I would think that it should....
Yes, it matters. There should be a ring (whether it's plastic or metal) to take up that gap, and prevent unsupported forces on the lug studs.
+1
+1
Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
Originally Posted By: tomcat27
one of the kids damaged a wheel on the Camry; I ordered a Toyota rim from DT; show up for the appt and they did not have the wheel. Grrrrr! instead they had a generic rim - and the hub hole is 1/2" larger than the hub. Does wheel stability, rigidity, and design require that the hole size match? I would think that it should....
Yes, it matters. There should be a ring (whether it's plastic or metal) to take up that gap, and prevent unsupported forces on the lug studs.
+1
+1
I've run most of my snow tires on rims centered on just the lugs and I suspect a few million other people up here do so as well. No problems with balance or anything else. I could see if you were going to run a rally car or baja truck, you'd definitely want your wheels hub centric for those huge suspension and wheel busting hits. But for my potholes over the years it hasn't been an issue.
Nick1994
$100 site donor 2024
You should be able to get a junk yard wheel on car-part.com for $20-$30.
Mine has a matching full size spare, if yours does too you can have the tire swapped out so you have a matching wheel.
Mine has a matching full size spare, if yours does too you can have the tire swapped out so you have a matching wheel.
Originally Posted By: mightymousetech
Can have vibrations if the wheels are not hubcentric. Also greater risk of damaging wheel studs as now a larger portion of the shear load is being taken by the studs and not the hub.
Sounds great in theory, but in pratical terms - it doesn't matter.
Lugs are pretty hard steel, I'd guess 110,000 PSI tensile strength, or more.
They really don't have much elasticity.
By the time the forces are great enough to bend the lugs to the point the hub hole can start to pick up some of the force, you have already damaged something else.
Can have vibrations if the wheels are not hubcentric. Also greater risk of damaging wheel studs as now a larger portion of the shear load is being taken by the studs and not the hub.
Sounds great in theory, but in pratical terms - it doesn't matter.
Lugs are pretty hard steel, I'd guess 110,000 PSI tensile strength, or more.
They really don't have much elasticity.
By the time the forces are great enough to bend the lugs to the point the hub hole can start to pick up some of the force, you have already damaged something else.
First off I'd try to buy an identical wheel from a wrecker or off the internet. Bought 2 OEM wheels for a Celica from a wrecker the morning after my daughter blew out 3 tires and ruined 2 rims. Going off the freeway backwards (after a spin on black ice) is hard on wheels. I'm just glad she wasn't injured. Still she got to learn about the large and scary dogs at wrecking yards and how long it takes to get 4 new tires installed at Canadian Tire.
Having identical hub-centric wheels should matter. There are forces that could be taken up to some degree by the hub.
But in normal driving it doesn't seem to matter. I've had a few aftermarket wheels with a plastic centering rings that have been fine. The only problem has been watching to ensure the centering rings don't get lost or left behind. But even then, there hasn't been a problem.
Having identical hub-centric wheels should matter. There are forces that could be taken up to some degree by the hub.
But in normal driving it doesn't seem to matter. I've had a few aftermarket wheels with a plastic centering rings that have been fine. The only problem has been watching to ensure the centering rings don't get lost or left behind. But even then, there hasn't been a problem.
Originally Posted By: Linctex
Originally Posted By: mightymousetech
Can have vibrations if the wheels are not hubcentric. Also greater risk of damaging wheel studs as now a larger portion of the shear load is being taken by the studs and not the hub.
Sounds great in theory, but in pratical terms - it doesn't matter.
Lugs are pretty hard steel, I'd guess 110,000 PSI tensile strength, or more.
They really don't have much elasticity.
By the time the forces are great enough to bend the lugs to the point the hub hole can start to pick up some of the force, you have already damaged something else.
Tensile is different from shear.
Originally Posted By: mightymousetech
Can have vibrations if the wheels are not hubcentric. Also greater risk of damaging wheel studs as now a larger portion of the shear load is being taken by the studs and not the hub.
Sounds great in theory, but in pratical terms - it doesn't matter.
Lugs are pretty hard steel, I'd guess 110,000 PSI tensile strength, or more.
They really don't have much elasticity.
By the time the forces are great enough to bend the lugs to the point the hub hole can start to pick up some of the force, you have already damaged something else.
Tensile is different from shear.
After the nuts are torqued it applies 20-30000+ pounds of total clamping force between the wheel, and the hub face. The hub isn't really doing much for support at that point. Some wheels have a very tight interference hub fit, but many are very loose on the hub, especially with most centering rings. Clamping force is what holds the wheel in place to the hub surface. On any wheel with tapered lug seats, ultimately positions the wheel.
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The hub supports the weight.
The bolts keep the hub and wheel clamped together.
Wheels should be hub-centric, either by default or with an adapter ring.
Just because you don't have an issue doing something the wrong way doesn't mean it's the right way.
The bolts keep the hub and wheel clamped together.
Wheels should be hub-centric, either by default or with an adapter ring.
Just because you don't have an issue doing something the wrong way doesn't mean it's the right way.
Carefully examine one of the good wheels. Does its center-hole ride the hub or not?
A metal bushing ring makes sense to me. Wouldn't a plastic one crush if squeezed?
A metal bushing ring makes sense to me. Wouldn't a plastic one crush if squeezed?
I had aftermarket wheels years ago and the shop said the centre bore was too big but it made no difference.
Car was plagued by wheel vibration afterwards that was cured when I bought and fitted the little adaptors.
Imho they keep the wheel perfectly centred and if they were not needed then no wheels would have them.
Car was plagued by wheel vibration afterwards that was cured when I bought and fitted the little adaptors.
Imho they keep the wheel perfectly centred and if they were not needed then no wheels would have them.
Another observation I've made is, if hub-centric wheels do not perfectly match the lug seats, you will easily break a stud, or have a lug nut frozen to it. One example is when people try to interchange a 4 1/2 inch bolt circle wheel with 115 mm pattern hub, or vice versus, or a 120mm vs. 4 3/4 inch bolt pattern. Yes, they will bolt up, but something has to give with only a .7mm mismatch. A little corrosion can do that too.
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This wheel stud shearing thing also comes up in discussions about whether is OK to grease your hubs to stop them rusting on, with the suggestion that greasing puts greater shear loads on the studs.
While I don't believe this is significant in normal use, Ive suggested using a fine abrasive like diatomaceous earth (commonly available in toothpaste) on the hubs.
I use polythene sheet, but I used to use aluminium foil, which I suppose also MIGHT reduce shear loads, like it matters.
While I don't believe this is significant in normal use, Ive suggested using a fine abrasive like diatomaceous earth (commonly available in toothpaste) on the hubs.
I use polythene sheet, but I used to use aluminium foil, which I suppose also MIGHT reduce shear loads, like it matters.
I agree that the shear load vs. shear strength of the studs is not significant with normal use. The exception is some kind of race cars or monster trucks, but they don't leave wheels bolted up long enough to worry about hub rusting.
Originally Posted By: Linctex
Lugs are pretty hard steel, I'd guess 110,000 PSI tensile strength, or more.
They really don't have much elasticity.
Elasticity (Young's Modulus) does not vary with tensile/yield strength ... whether gained by heat treatment or cold work.
For pretty well any ferrous alloy, it is the same 30,000,000 psi.
Lugs are pretty hard steel, I'd guess 110,000 PSI tensile strength, or more.
They really don't have much elasticity.
Elasticity (Young's Modulus) does not vary with tensile/yield strength ... whether gained by heat treatment or cold work.
For pretty well any ferrous alloy, it is the same 30,000,000 psi.
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