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Penrite Vantage #4651716
01/31/18 05:48 AM
01/31/18 05:48 AM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,624
Down Under
SR5 Offline OP
SR5  Offline OP
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,624
Down Under
I did a recent oil change with Penrite Vantage 10w-40 semi-synthetic, it's rated SN, A3/B4, VW 502 00 / 505 00.
[Which oil thread]

This got me looking at the Penrite Vantage oil more closely [Penrite Vantage Link]
It probably deserves it's own thread on the oil itself (C&P below)

My old stash has two 10W-40 oils, Valvoline DuraBlend (DB) and Penrite Vantage (PV).
Both are:
- Semi-synthetic 10W40
- API SN/CF and ACEA A3/B4

KV40 viscosity
DB = 103.0 cSt
PV = 94 cSt

KV100 viscosity
DB =15.1 cSt
PV = 13.5 cSt

Cold Cranking (CCS) at -25C
DB = 6100 cP
PV = 6899 cP

Now J300 says a 40 grade oil has a KV100 of 12.5 to 16.3 cSt
and 10W has a max cold cranking of 7000 cP at -25C.

The DuraBlend seems to have more typical values, similar to other 10W40 semi-synthetic oils I can find (like Castrol Magnatec 10W40)

So I find the Penrite Vantage interesting, it's KV100 viscosity is at the lower end and close to a 30 grade, yet the cold cranking is at the upper end and almost a 15W.

It's like this Penrite Vantage oil is not far away from a 15W30 with a heavy add pack (TBN = 11.0 and Zinc = 1220 ppm)

BTW the old M1 0W40 also had KV100 = 13.5 cSt (with TBN = 11.8, Zinc = 1100 ppm and HTHS = 3.8 cP)

I also spoke to Penrite today, and they confirmed that the Vantage is a Group II and Group III only blend (it contains no Group I - as is sometimes used by others), and that all Penrite semi-synthetics have a minimum of 20% Group III and possibly more depending on the actual product.


Penrite Vantage 10W40 SN & A3/B4 + Wesfil-Cooper Z154
Re: Penrite Vantage [Re: SR5] #4651720
01/31/18 06:16 AM
01/31/18 06:16 AM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,624
Down Under
SR5 Offline OP
SR5  Offline OP
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,624
Down Under
So I am more use to the Penrite HPR range of oils, these were the Extra 10 oils. That is they took a regular grade, say 20W50 or 10W40 and increased the viscosity, to give you HPR 20W60 and HPR 10W50 etc.

These were very popular back in the day, and used them myself. But I now realise that they are full of polymer VIIs, and I now prefer a narrower viscosity grade, not the Extra 10. Also if you wanted to follow the owners manual, the HPR grades rarely fitted the requirements (to the letter).

So the Penrite Vantage oils, are in regular viscosity grades, and in some cases like the example above, on the viscosity tight side. Almost the opposite of HPR. Not all the vantage are this tight, but some definitely are.

Penrite also make a regular 10W40 semi-synthetic, it's SN & A3/B4, KV 40 = 94 cSt, KV100 = 13.8 cSt, CCS = 6430 cP, TBN = 10.2 and Zinc = 1080 ppm. So similar to the Vantage 10W40 SS, but with lower CCS, TBN and zinc. To me that makes the Vantage the better pick, as in I expect the Vantage to have less VII but more TBN and more Zinc.

The other difference between the HPR and the Vantage, is that many of the HPR range contain no friction modifiers so they are motorcycle wet clutch friendly (my primary usage). But most of the Vantage range do contain friction modifiers, and are stated as not suitable for motorcycles.

So HPR and Vantage, two fairly different Penrite oils.


Penrite Vantage 10W40 SN & A3/B4 + Wesfil-Cooper Z154
Re: Penrite Vantage [Re: SR5] #4651722
01/31/18 06:25 AM
01/31/18 06:25 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 40,884
'Stralia
Shannow Online content
Shannow  Online Content
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 40,884
'Stralia
Like I said in the other thread, you've made a really good pickup there.

Since the "plus ten" days, which I was not a fan of...they are really coming into their stride.

Re: Penrite Vantage [Re: SR5] #4651789
01/31/18 09:21 AM
01/31/18 09:21 AM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 90
Europe
Ether Offline
Ether  Offline
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 90
Europe
I always wanted to try Penrite oils,and found a couple of distributors in the UK selling some of the classic vintage and veteran grades like 25w70,along with the 10 Tenths Racing grades,but it's just too expensive for me to justify at the moment.For 5 litres of the 10 Tenths Racing 10w40 it's 77.95/$110.37.Maybe the Vantage would be a bit cheaper,but i can't get hold of it in the UK.

Re: Penrite Vantage [Re: SR5] #4652285
01/31/18 05:05 PM
01/31/18 05:05 PM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,624
Down Under
SR5 Offline OP
SR5  Offline OP
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,624
Down Under
Hi Ether,
Yes the Penrite 10-Tenths Racing is their best oil, it's 100% PAO and Ester, but it's expensive. I've used the 10-Tenths 10W40 before, and it's a good oil, but for most of my applications I don't need an oil that strong or that expensive. So I'm glad I've discovered their Vantage range, as these are good oils (Group II or Group III) at a much more affordable price.

I picked up the Vantage 10W40 semi-synthetic for about $20 for a big 6L jug on sale. But for us in Oz, Mobil 1 is a very expensive oil, here M1 0W40 costs about $110 for 5L - no way at that price. I can buy ANY Penrite, Castrol, Valvoline or Shell synthetic oil for less than that.


Penrite Vantage 10W40 SN & A3/B4 + Wesfil-Cooper Z154
Re: Penrite Vantage [Re: SR5] #4652402
01/31/18 06:53 PM
01/31/18 06:53 PM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,751
New Zealand
Silk Online content
Silk  Online Content
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,751
New Zealand
I've got the Vantage 10W-40 in my W202 C220 Mercedes, and it's in my daughters '89 Subaru Omega too. I had the 20W-50 in my bike last time, gone to the V Twin now - rode it in over 30C (that's stinking hot for us y'know) and 2 hrs after getting home couldn't hold my hand on the rocker covers, so happy with the POA/ester VTwin for that.


1987 BMW R65 - Penrite V Twin 20/50
2005 Nissan Expert - Gulf Western 10W-40
1996 Volvo T5 - Penrite HPR15 - 15W-60. Ryco syntec filter.
Re: Penrite Vantage [Re: SR5] #4652793
02/01/18 04:06 AM
02/01/18 04:06 AM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,624
Down Under
SR5 Offline OP
SR5  Offline OP
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,624
Down Under
So to add another comparison, this time with 15W40 mineral oils.

Penrite Vantage 15W40 mineral (PV), Castrol GTX 15W40 "Modern Engine" (GTX), Valvoline XLD 15W40 mineral (XLD). Using the Australian data sheets we get:

Spec.
PV SN/CF
GTX SN/CF & A3/B3
XLD SL/CF

KV40 Viscosity (cSt)
PV 105
GTX 113
XLD 115

KV100 Viscosity (cSt)
PV 13.8
GTX 14.5
XLD 15.0

Cold Cranking CCS at -20C (cP)
PV 6973
GTX 6700
XLD 6100

TBN
PV 7.6
GTX 8.3
XLD 7.8

Zinc (ppm)
PV 1080
GTX ?
XLD ?

HTHS at 150C (cP)
PV ?
GTX 3.95
XLD ?

Nock Volatility (%)
PV ?
GTX ?
XLD 9.7 %

Again J300 gives 40 grade viscosity as 12.5 to 16.3 cSt, with a 15W40 having a min HTHS of 3.7 cP, and with 15W having a maximum cold cranking of 7000 cP at -20C. BTW ACEA required A3/B3 to have a min TBN of 8, which only the GTX meets.

Looking at the figures you can see the Penrite Vantage is viscometrically tight, with the lowest KV100 viscosity, but the highest cold cranking CCS. The CCS is right on the limit, very close to a 20W. It's almost a 20W-30, almost.

Penrite also say that this oil is pure Hydrocracked Group II.

My pick is still the 10W-40 semi-synthetic Vantage with more zine and more TBN, and it's A3/B4. But you get the idea, this Vantage 15W40 is a very tight oil. If the Valvoline had a Noack of 9.7%, then I would expect this Penrite 15W40 to be even lower.


Penrite Vantage 10W40 SN & A3/B4 + Wesfil-Cooper Z154
Re: Penrite Vantage [Re: SR5] #4654061
02/02/18 05:30 PM
02/02/18 05:30 PM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,624
Down Under
SR5 Offline OP
SR5  Offline OP
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,624
Down Under
Originally Posted By: SR5

Valvoline DuraBlend (DB), Shell Helix HX7 and Penrite Vantage (PV)
- Semi-synthetic 10W40
- API SN/CF and ACEA A3/B4

KV40 viscosity
DB = 103.0 cSt
HX7 = 92
PV = 94 cSt

KV100 viscosity
DB =15.1 cSt
HX7 = 14.1
PV = 13.5 cSt

Cold Cranking (CCS) at -25C
DB = 6100 cP
HX7 = 6485
PV = 6899 cP



So I've added some viscosity and CCS data from the Russian Oil Club for the Shell Helix HX7 10W-40 semi-synthetic. The VOA data shows the HX7 nicely sits between the Valvoline DuraBlend and the Penrite Vantage.

(HX7 VOA Link)

The reason I added the link was to show the HX7 had a Noack volatility of 7.7 % which is nice and low. I would expect the other two oils to be similar.

The HX7 is also rated MB 229.3 & VW 502/505 as well as the usual SN & A3/B4.

Another nice semi-synthetic oil that is often on sale in Oz, NZ and common in Europe too I believe. I have some in my oil stash right now and may give it a run next. I prefer the Vantage, but I want to reduce my oil stash first.

BTW the Russian VOA of the HX7 shows a TBN of 10.44 (~3050 ppm Ca) and Zinc of 1039 ppm. No moly and low Boron (81 ppm). A fairly standard old-school add pack by the look of it, that has been quietly doing it's thing quite effectively for years.

Re: Penrite Vantage [Re: SR5] #4655347
02/03/18 10:49 PM
02/03/18 10:49 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 177
Melbourne, Australia
dirtydannyd Offline
dirtydannyd  Offline
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 177
Melbourne, Australia
Thanks for the post.
Good stuff.

Re: Penrite Vantage [Re: dirtydannyd] #4662148
02/10/18 05:43 PM
02/10/18 05:43 PM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,624
Down Under
SR5 Offline OP
SR5  Offline OP
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,624
Down Under
Originally Posted By: dirtydannyd
Thanks for the post.
Good stuff.

No worries DDD,
I'm trying to look at the oils we can get in Oz that are often at a good price.
In January this year, Repco had Shell Helix HX 10W40 at $18 for 5L. While SCA has similar sales.

I'm also trying to understand the Penrite line up a bit better, as they have a lot of different products now days.

The hard part is finding good data sheets to compare and understand the various products.


Penrite Vantage 10W40 SN & A3/B4 + Wesfil-Cooper Z154
Re: Penrite Vantage [Re: SR5] #4662258
02/10/18 08:11 PM
02/10/18 08:11 PM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,624
Down Under
SR5 Offline OP
SR5  Offline OP
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,624
Down Under
One of the things that catches my eye is the Noack Volatility (%)

Valvoline XLD 15W40 mineral = 9.7 %

Shell Helix HX7 10W-40 semi-synthetic = 7.7 %

If we assume these are typical Noack values, and also add in the fact that the 15W40 mineral PCMOs have a typical TBN of about 8, while the 10W40 SS have a TBN of 10 or more. Then I think it's worth paying a few more dollars for the 10W40 SS.

This is something I have been thinking about for awhile. 15W40 mineral Vs 10W40 SS. Sure they may be over formulating but under selling the 15W40 PCMOs to position it at a certain place in the market. But at the end of the day, you can only go by the data you have. BTW all bets are off, with a HDEO 15W40, these are formulated to a completely different (higher) level.

Also the Euro B4 oil, apart from requiring more TBN than a B3 oil (10 Vs 8 min), the B4 oil also must pass a more strict diesel piston cleanliness test (Seq 2.8) and a lower wear test (Seq 2.7).
(Link ACEA 2016 PDF)


Penrite Vantage 10W40 SN & A3/B4 + Wesfil-Cooper Z154
Re: Penrite Vantage [Re: SR5] #4663488
02/12/18 04:27 AM
02/12/18 04:27 AM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 551
South OZ
KL31 Offline
KL31  Offline
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 551
South OZ
Thanks for the thread SR5. This vantage oil does look very decent. I'm beginning to have more and more respect for penrite's oils. Might have to delve into some in the future. The hx7 is always going on sale though for around $20, hard to beat without sales for penrite too!


95 MX-3 2.5L|Shell Helix Ultra 5W40|Wix 51356
04 Focus 1.8L|Wesfil Cooper WZ63|Valvoline MST 5W30
05 Kluger 3.3L|Wesfil Cooper WZ418|Magnatec 10W30 Semi Syn
Re: Penrite Vantage [Re: SR5] #4663522
02/12/18 07:37 AM
02/12/18 07:37 AM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,164
Australia
supercity Offline
supercity  Offline
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Posts: 1,164
Australia
I would question the stated NOACK of Helix 10w40 above.

Re: Penrite Vantage [Re: SR5] #4668436
02/17/18 04:55 AM
02/17/18 04:55 AM
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,313
Tasmania, Australia
hpb Offline
hpb  Offline
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,313
Tasmania, Australia
I intend to change the oil in the Falcon tomorrow, will be putting in Vantage 15w40 semi syn, bought it about 12 months ago - 2 x 6 litre containers for $34 from Repco, bargain! This oil will do a 10,000km run, maybe more.


MY16 Mitsubishi Outlander 2.2 diesel, 51,000km - Castrol 5w30
2006 Ford Falcon 4.0, 135,000km - Penrite Vantage 15w40, Ryco filter
Re: Penrite Vantage [Re: hpb] #4668974
02/17/18 06:59 PM
02/17/18 06:59 PM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,624
Down Under
SR5 Offline OP
SR5  Offline OP
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Down Under
Wow ... 12L for $34, that is a very good price. Nothing wrong with the GTX 15W40 you are using now, but if the mineral GTX with a TBN of 8.3 can go 10,000 KM then the semi-synthetic Vantage 15W40 with a TBN of 10.1 should be able to go longer.

Penrite Vantage 15W40 Semi-Synthetic
- Spec API SN/CF, ACEA A3/B4, VW 502 00 / 505 00, RN 0700 / 0710
- KV40 Viscosity = 109 cSt
- KV100 Viscosity = 14.8 cSt
- Cold Cranking at -20C = 4969 cP
- TBN = 10.1
- Zinc = 1090 ppm

That is a good oil, solid zinc & TBN package, ample up to date specs (and a few older ones I didn't list), in a Group II / III base oil package. And as Penrite have said, they promise a minimum of 20% (if not more) Group III in all their semi-synthetics. It's also worth stepping it up from GTX (A3/B3) to Vantage (A3/B4) for the more rigorous wear & deposit test the B4 oil needs to pass.

I've used GTX 15W40 before, with no problems - it's a nice oil, but I would always select the Vantage you have first, if given the option - it's just better in too many ways. At the price you paid, it's win-win all round.


Penrite Vantage 10W40 SN & A3/B4 + Wesfil-Cooper Z154
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