Preliminary Report: 10W30 in 5.4L 3V Modular

[Ben99GT]

Originally Posted By: panthermike
Doesn't that TSB say to use 10w40 IIRC? I might even use 5w30 in my brother's 5.4 F150 now since it's out of warranty. It consumes some oil on 5w20 and has a slight cam phaser noise. I figure it's worth a try. Plus, we live in Phoenix, climate isn't as much of a factor here.


Yep, it recommends 10W-40 to address cam phaser noise.
As far as 10W-30 causing cam phaser problems, would FORD recommend 10W-40 IF it caused "problems" with the cam phasers? I don't think so.

The Modulars just aren't that sensitive to oil, all statements that say 5W-20 MUST be used or you will experience problems are simply wrong.

10W-30 is also recommended for use in 3V Modulars in some markets outside of the US, I guess everywhere this happens we can expect all 3Vs to self destruct due to the manufacturer viscosity recommendation.

 

[Jim Allen]

Well, I have some data on the oil pump bypass.

Melling makes an OEM replacement. Using a standardized test oil (equivalent to 10W30), their pump delivers 38 psi @ 200F at 800 rpm and the bypass begins to open @ 69 psi @ 200F @ 2000 rpm. The pump is a Gerotor type, driven off the crankshaft snout.

Interestingly, Ford lists 75 psi @ 2000 rpm with a "warmed up" engine as "normal," but does not directly specify the oil.

AERA lists 40-60 psi w/ "warmed up engine" as normal.

The upper end of the AERA recommendation is more like what I have observed on 5W20. I've had the oil pressure gauge hooked up for about half this engine's less-than-30K life and the oil pressure has been a constant average, 63 psi @ 2000 rpm @ 195F.

Still got feelers out to see what turns up.

 

[TFB1]

Originally Posted By: Jim Allen

Interestingly, Ford lists 75 psi @ 2000 rpm with a "warmed up" engine as "normal," but does not directly specify the oil.

AERA lists 40-60 psi w/ "warmed up engine" as normal.

The upper end of the AERA recommendation is more like what I have observed on 5W20. I've had the oil pressure gauge hooked up for about half this engine's less-than-30K life and the oil pressure has been a constant average, 63 psi @ 2000 rpm @ 195F.



Which pretty much shoots the 10psi per 1000RPM listed in oil 101 full of holes... You could probably fill the crankcase with WD-40 and make 40psi at 2K, but per 101 it would still be too thick...

 

[CATERHAM]

Jim if you saw 75 psi cold then that's your by-pass setting on the Ford. The oil grade and temp' are immaterial.
On the 10W-30 HDEO if you saw 67 psi @1,800 rpm with 189F oil temp's, what's the OP at higher rev's like 3,000 rpm, 4,000 rpm and 5,000 rpm? Does it continue to climb and does it reach the by-pass setting of 75 psi?
With the oil up to temperature you should be able to rev the engine to red line without going into by-pass.

 

[Jim Allen]

Good Idea! Next time it's warm out and I've got the oil up to 190F or so, I'll rev it up and see. Never thought to check that way. I think cold it will go higher than 75 psi, I just took note during startups.

TFB1: I think the 10psi/1000 rpm the crawling-on-the-ground minimum for most high pressure engines. I've owned some engines, Rover/Buick V8s and my 6.9L diesel, where that is pretty close to normal for them. Probably a few others too. But if the 101 says that's "normal" across the board I'd say that' top general a statement.

 

[Jim Allen]

Well I did some oil pressure testing at high revs. With the oil at 50F, I can achieve 88 psi @ 4500 rpm. With the oil temp at 195F, it will do 76 psi max.

 

[TXCarGeek]

Old thread, I know, but did you find out any other interesting tidbits?

 

[KenO]

5W-20 is problematic for these motors. Always has been and always will be.

If nothing else, the 10W-30 will bleed past the chain tensioners less, causing fewer phaser problems.

IMO run all these motors on 5W-40 Rotella.

 

[DoubleWasp]

Originally Posted By: RISUPERCREWMAN
Using an oil other than Motorcraft/Ford recommended 5w~20 viscosity will give you problems with the cam phasers/vtc's! That's a given!


Complete lie.

Cam phaser problems need no assistance to show up, and thanks to Ford's cheap aluminum oil pump, 5/20 can bypass out of the pump body quickly enough to cause healthy phasers to work incorrectly.

When the engine and oil are really hot, this problem is at its worst.

Edit: Didn't notice this post was old as heck. My bad.

 

[KenO]

Yup. The phaser problem is 100% caused by oil starvation TO the phasers. Thats caused by the [censored] stock oil pump that leaks at higher revs, and the terribly designed timing chain tensioners that also leak. As soon as it gets ticky do a timing chain refresh with enw tensioners and you'll never have phaser problems. And ideally, upgrade to the Melling M360 oil pump while you're there.

 

[modularv8]

I have an '06 F150 5.4L, 110k miles with zero problems running 5w20. As for the pump, the OEM pump is designed to deliver 30% more volume compared to the non-VCT version of this engine. Poor maintenance or extended oil changes intervals beyond what Ford specifies can impact the VCT operation in a significant way.

 

[SR5]

Interesting old thread. Good Bump.

 

[dave1251]

There are quite a few 5.4's out there which had the snot beat upon them with no issues. The vast majority in fact.

 

[dave1251]

I like Jim Allen's thrrads